Would you warn someone off a sale or mind your own business?


September 10, 2003, 10:45 PM
I was buying some ammo at the last local saxet gunshow when a guy walked up and inquired about buying several cases of Wolf .45acp from the vendor.

$64 per thousand

The guy wanted eight cases.

I about swallowed my tongue...

The ammo vendor is a good guy and I buy powder, bullets, primers and ammo from him all the time so I didn't want to ruin a potential sale for him.

Don't get me wrong, I love wolf ammo for my Makarov, SAR 1 and SKS's.

I tried wolf ammo in 4 of my 1911's and encountered keyholing, failure to extract properly, blowing chunks of unburned crap in my face etc...

These are guns that otherwise function flawlessly with any other ammo.

Should I have been a good samaritan and warned the buyer about Wolf .45 being crap or was I right to keep my mouth shut and mind my own business?

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September 10, 2003, 10:50 PM

or ask what he was shooting maybe. cause maybe he wasnting shooting it out of a 1911. could be a number of various guns. guns that wont mind the wolf or not.

September 10, 2003, 10:53 PM
He's an adult making his own decisions. When you buy 8 cases, you've probably gone through a couple boxes to see if the stuff works for you...just don't start laughing until you get back to your vehicle :evil:

September 10, 2003, 10:53 PM
If he was buying 8 cases, I'll bet he was familiar with the stuff and it works fine for him.

Travis McGee
September 10, 2003, 10:53 PM
Tough question!

September 10, 2003, 10:57 PM
I would not have said anything.
I've used Wolf ammo before and it worked fine for me.
I just found practice ammo I like better.

September 10, 2003, 11:04 PM
I used to try to be helpful. Didn't seem to pan out. Somebody always got pissed. Buyer, clerk, etc. Now, I just keep my mouth shut, and chuckle to myself . . . inside. Sad, because, I always appreciated the anecdote and note of wisdom from an old salt when buying a new gun or ammo. The way I was raised I suppose . . . respect my elders, but that sort of thing has gone out of fashion, and so, I now stay silent. Sigh!

September 10, 2003, 11:08 PM
The only way I ever say anything to anybody is if the buyer is someone I am close to.....family or good friends.

Adult consumers have the choice to be educated or ignorant.

Caveat Emptor.

But I have shot Wolf ammo and can imagine plenty of reasons to buy several cases, at least of 7.62X39.

bang bang bang.

But giving un-asked-for advice in a buy-sell situation will only make the seller hate you for sure, and probably the poor buyer as well, whose money you were trying to save.


September 10, 2003, 11:18 PM
8 cases, I would figure he knows what he's buying.

Personally, I get seriously annoyed at strangers offering unsolicited advice. I usually know what it is I'm buying and if I want advice I'll ask for it. Usually they're honestly trying to be helpful so I'm mostly polite when I reply that I know what I want.

My experience has been (not putting you in that category jsalcedo, but generally) people who offer advice when a customer is trying to buy something don't know what they're talking about. Like the customer in a computer store that told another customer that Superdrives were magneto-optical. Or the guy that tried to tell me I didn't want off-road tires for my truck or the guy that told me SVGA monitors wouldn't work on a Mac. (I'm an Apple Authorized Service Rep)

edited to add: To clarify what I'm saying, when customers ask for a specific make and model or a specific brand then they usually know what they're buying and wouldn't appreciate advice. If they seem hesitant or browsing among several different models then they may appreciate your opinion.

September 10, 2003, 11:23 PM
I was toying with the idea on whether the guy knew what wolf ammo was.

All the guy said was wow.. $64? Can I have 8?

I'm beginning to think the buyer was going to resell them retail.

Wolf .45 is not something I would want to shoot 8 cases of in any gun.

September 10, 2003, 11:29 PM
I treat interfearing with a sale is in the same category as domestic dispute.

If you try to break them up usually one or both turn on you and try to make you a victim. I just do my business and move on.

Good Shooting

September 10, 2003, 11:39 PM
Not ammo - was in a gun store that I hadn't been in before - just browsing to get aquainted. An obviously uninformed customer was getting the old soft shoe from the clerk. I didn't say anything until he started his pitch on a VERY overpriced .38 snubby. (Yeah. Great gun for a newbie. :rolleyes: )

I spoke up and told him he could get it $100 cheaper at Turner's.

The clerk's only comment was short and to the point:



Left with my two friends, followed by the newbie. We told him the facts, and he went back in and bought the gun.


Never again.

September 10, 2003, 11:48 PM
I was at WalMart the other day, saw a guy looking at Bushnell 4-12x40 AO scopes. Asked him if he had internet access, he said he did. Told him to check SWAFA, same scope for $30 less. He seemed to appreciate the tip, doubt if WalMart goes broke because of one missed sale.

September 10, 2003, 11:53 PM
Keep your opinion to yourself! Just because you have had bad experiences with a particular product doesn't mean someone else will encounter the same difficulties. Perhaps he had a gun that has an affinity for Wolf! Besides, two adults conducting business is none of your affair.

September 11, 2003, 07:30 AM
"Be cautious when giving advice: Wise men don't need it, and fools won't heed it."

September 11, 2003, 08:23 AM
The buyer was probably one of these two:

1. He's used Wolf in a gun before & likes the stuff. Some guns it won't hurt (i.e. Ruger, CZ, etc.)

2. He's going to resell/give the ammo away.

It's his money. Let him learn on his own...

September 11, 2003, 10:14 AM
If he can buy 8 cases at a time.

He's got plenty of money to burn!

Zach S
September 11, 2003, 10:49 AM
seeker, you forgot #3: newbie, just looking for cheap ammo.

The range I go to has some pretty good guys working there, when someone asks one for an opinion, they get the opinion, not a sales pitch. But I dont live there so i dont know if theyre perfect strangers or not. I keep my opinion to myself unless I'm asked. But, since a few ppl voiced their opinion about Wolf ammo, I'll do the same. I dont like cleaning guns, and therefore I dont like wolf. I shoot .45ACP exclusively (other than in rentals and "Hey Zach, try this one")

September 11, 2003, 11:00 AM
Let the buyer beware.

Rude to the shop who's just tryin to scratch a living. Mind if I come to YOUR business and point people elsewhere?:uhoh:

September 11, 2003, 11:18 AM
$65 per 1000?

Wow ...
Are you sure that wasn't $65 for 500?

I pay a little more than $65 for 1000 230g copper plated Berry's bullets to reload with.

At $65 per K, I'd probably grab a case to see how well it ran, and worst case I'd pull the bullets and powder.

September 11, 2003, 11:52 AM
Staying quiet might just be the best plan, but...

You could warn him, while hopefully not sounding nosy or ticking off the seller by saying something like "I sure wish that Wolf ammo worked in my 45, I just have too many jams with it."

It sounds conversational while letting them know that Wolf may not work in their gun.

pale horse
September 11, 2003, 12:16 PM
In rare cases I will correct the gun clerk, if he is feeding the customer a load of bs. In one case gun clerk at the Sportsmans Warehouse was telling a guy that a the Washington State Patrol uses a Glock and that it was a good gun. At this point I chimed in saying that they use the 92fs. The clerk said "Ahh. No they just switched." By the way I personally know a state trooper and he carries the 92fs and I saw it last week when I dispatched a skunk. He was on the hook and loosing the sale quick. "Not on west side of the state." I told the clerk that I just got back from taking the test for state patrol and all of the guys were wearing 92fs. "ahh. They must not have gotten the new guns yet." So when he left I told the guy that the clerk was not accurate about the state patrol pistol, but the Glock would serve him well.

In most cases I would/will not step in unless the clerk is feeding someone a load of crap.

Double Maduro
September 11, 2003, 02:01 PM

It is truly bad form to tell a customer that they can get a product cheaper at a competitors establishment.

Every shop has a differant set of expenses and profit structure. Very bad form indeed.

I will only get involved if I agree with the saleperson or if they are saying something that is absolutly wrong or/and dangerous.


Standing Wolf
September 11, 2003, 08:56 PM
I'd introduce him to loading his own: better quality and lower prices.

September 11, 2003, 09:19 PM

It is truly bad form to tell a customer that they can get a product cheaper at a competitors establishment.

Every shop has a differant set of expenses and profit structure. Very bad form indeed.

If it's an honest merchant, yes. The deal this guy was offering did not pass Go, but went straight to larceny. He was ripping off an obvious newbie.

September 12, 2003, 05:19 AM
I have to agree with most others here. It is impolite and mistaken to interupt a sale just so you can get your two cents in. Give your opinion when it is asked for, and remember that it is an opinion and not everyone's version of fact.

September 12, 2003, 06:45 AM
Unless you have a personal interest in the deal, i.e., the guy is paying you for advice, or he specifically asks you, the best posture is MYOB.

September 12, 2003, 09:22 AM
Generally I'll keep quiet.

However, I think it's a different story when the seller is misrepresenting the product or laws relating thereto.

Example 1 (from rec.guns a while back): someone bought a "pre-ban" Glock 23 b/c the dealer told him only "pre-ban" Glocks could be used legally with pre-ban high-cap mags.

Example 2 (at a SE PA gunshow): dealer has sign on his table saying "buy a trigger lock, comply with federal law".

The situation described by the initial poster does not involve misrepresentation as far as I can tell. So in that situation I'd clam up.

September 12, 2003, 09:49 AM
I would keep my mouth shut......unless I'm asked a direct question.:)

September 12, 2003, 12:27 PM
While some may perceive Wolf to be junk ammo, to others (specifically those who train), it may not. Why? Wolf is excellent for increasing both your level of proficiency with the fundamentals of marksmanship as well as your proficiency on how to perform malfunction clearance drills.

So unless you train, most people wouldn't be aware of that, so its probably best to mind your own business and keep your mouth shut rather than risk getting punched in the nose by the merchant and/or the customer.

4v50 Gary
September 12, 2003, 12:30 PM
I'd bite my tongue. A smart man knows what to say and a wise man knows when to say it.

Futo Inu
September 12, 2003, 12:35 PM
It depends on:

A) Whether I like the shop/seller in question, and therefore do or do not want the seller to make a sale; and
B) Whether I perceive the buyer to be someone who is likeable. If he seems like he's intelligent and likeable, and/or cares about the RKBA, I'd probably help out. If he seems like duckhunter type, who could care less about the 2A, then I probably would not help, as I have nothing but utter contempt for those types.

"...as well as your proficiency on how to perform malfunction clearance drills."

Lol - while true, I'd have to say that you must be one of those "glass half full" people.

Generally, I'd keep quiet, as someone else mentioned, unless a misrepresentation was being made.

Double Maduro
September 12, 2003, 01:27 PM
Futo Inu,

"Duck Hunter type"?

I resemble that remark. I hunt ducks as I am sure many here do.

I am also legal to carry concealed in three states -more to come.

We try not to put forth any prejudices in this board. And to be prejudged to be not interrested in RKBA, not to mention the backhanded attack at the intelligence of duck hunters in general, because I hunt ducks is slightly upsetting.


You have now been told off in two languages. Any referrences to your parentage were intentional.



September 12, 2003, 05:09 PM
Don't get your feathers ruffled, Double. The term "duck hunter type" is not intended to refer to all persons who hunt ducks, but only to those who think that the 2A is ONLY about duck hunting and therefore don't object to "common sense gun control".

IOW, duck hunting idiots who are aiding and abbetting the enemy. (And i use the term, "enemy" in its fullest sense.)

The term is a poor one, as it does denote all duck hunters, but the intent is to insult only that subset of duck hunters that has feathers for brains.

BTW, where are you from? Your quack has an interesting accent.


September 12, 2003, 05:40 PM
Generally, MYOB, caveat emptor.

Every situation is different, but I'd have a hard time standing by listening to someone blatantly lie about something of substance . . . . e.g. serious $$$ involved, significant legal consequences, or bodily injury.

September 12, 2003, 09:37 PM
Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than speak and remove all doubt...

Honest Abe

September 13, 2003, 12:58 AM
Unless the product is blatantly being misrepresented, then I would say keep your mouth shut and move on. If Wolf was indeed $64 a thousand, I would've taken a couple cases myself - the going rate around here is about $60 for 500 and $110 for 1K. Wolf shoots like a dream through both my PCR-45 and PCR-9.

September 13, 2003, 04:26 AM
What exactly is wrong with buying Wolf at that price? Sounds like a great deal i wish this shop was close to me.

Futo Inu
September 13, 2003, 12:06 PM
That's right - I should have elaborated - by "duck hunter types", I did indeed mean "duck hunters who don't join the NRA and do nothing for RKBA and support gun bans types" - not that I'd be likely to ascertain that fact just by observing a transaction, but IF somehow I could, I'd let such types get it stuck to them with much glee. Told off in duck language - lol. :)

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