[SodaPop]

I know nothing about it?

I've been seeing them at gun stores in the $350 price range. For some reason they've been looking more appealing than SAR rifles I've been looking at.

Price of CETME mags?

Who makes a good one?

Who used them in the military?

How do they compare to the HK91?

[7.62FullMetalJacket]

The CETME is a Spanish made/designed SA rifle using the G3 upper. I looked at one and it was OK. Affordable, but I believe they are assembled from various different parts by the importer. Century International is providing these for the FAL/L1A1/G3 market. Someone here may have a bit more of a historical perspective....and may even own one!

[Destructo6]

The versions on the market are rebuilt from cutup CETME model C rifles. The model A was jointly developed by Spanish engineers and ex-mauser engineers, Heckler, Koch, and Siedel. Yep, that Heckler&Koch.

The design teams parted company not long before their respective designs were finalized, so they are functionally identical, but have still have some big differences.

Parts are not readibly interchangeable, but some major assemblies will swap directly. Some parts can be modified slightly to work.

The 3-position selector switch is on safe at the middle position. Semi is up, and auto is down. Very odd.

Here's a CETME page:
http://cetme.homestead.com/mbr.html

CETME mags are just a tad more expensive than HK aluminium mags right now, but still not very expensive. Real CETMEs don't accept HK mags, but the clones may. CETME mags work fine in HKs.

[SodaPop]

Are CETME's as tough as a FAL or M1A?

[Marko Kloos]

CETMEs are very tough, just like the HK91 series. They also don't share one of the few weaknesses of the M-14/M1A design, which is an exposed operating rod.

The FAL is probably superior ergonomically. The CETME and G3 series does not have a bolt hold-open device, requires significantly more force for operating the cocking handle, and the G3 and CETME semi-auto clones do not have the convenient paddle mag release found on a real G3. The semi-auto FALs have the same great ambidextrous mag and bolt release as their military counterparts.

That said, the CETME and G3 clones have their own set of virtues, among which are their reliability and sturdy construction. They also have much less perceived recoil than any other main battle rifle design, thanks to the roller lock mechanism (and in the case of the CETME clones, a great muzzle brake).

Lastly, a Century Arms CETME will only set you back about $400, less in many places. Magazines are dirt cheap at Tapco, about $3 a piece. The new CETME clones have HK G3-spec receivers and will accept G3 mags and any G3 accessory such as claw mounts.

Here's a slightly tarted-up Century Arms CETME with a Weaver-base claw mount and a cheapo BSA red dot scope. Total outlay for the setup pictured was less than $500, ammo included. The claw mount was a gift from a friend, but can be found online for $50 or so.

http://www.frontiernet.net/~lendringser/images/cetmeloadout_l.JPG

[Dave R]

I'll add that:

-CETME recoi is very light for a .308. Combination of muzzle brake and roller-locking action.

-CETME accuracy appears pretty good. Mine shoots 2MOA with surplus ammo and iron sights. Might do better with a scope. The folks at the CETME forum report similar accuracy.

-Its pretty easy to clean, once you get the buttstock loosened up. A FAL is probably a bit easier to clean, bit the CETME clean up pretty quick.

-Its built by Century, so there are some lemons out there. Be willing to tinker or send it back if you get a lemon. Latest reports seem to indicate the lemon factor has gone down recently.

[jason10mm]

I got one back in 2000, when the threat of a ban was high and they cost $650 :rolleyes: Well, at least she has better wood furniture than most I have seen lately :banghead:

The iron sights on a CETME are pretty f'ed up. There is a spinning rear sight with various peep sights or a battlefield V notch, while the front sight handles both elevation and windage by having a off-set post that rotates up and down, while moving left or right . Very confusing and not very precise IMHO. Anyway, the biggest complaint back then were front sight posts that were torques improperly, leading to an inability to zero the iron sights. Mine is like that, it shoots about 6 inches left at 100 meters even when the front sight post is maxed out on windage. I now just use a scope, though I could fabricate a front site post with more adjustment if I wanted (or get it straightened if I knew a smith familiar with HK-type rifles). BUT, you can find CETMEs with the far superior G3 sight system with the rear site drum. I recommend this as a much more practical iron sight set up. Now, the real cats-??? is a AR-15 rear sight, which some guys have done (Lord Perry, IIRC, and he can be found on gunboards.com in the CETME/FR-8 section).

Personally, I find the HK rifles to be too heavy and awkward for competition use, not to mention the reversed safety lever and the heavy trigger. But she runs like a champ, so I keep her around. If you are looking for a .308 battle rifle on the cheap, I'd recommend a Fal over the CETME, but if you like want annother nice rifle, they aren't too bad to add to the collection. With some TLC you can really trick them out.

[iamkris]

Good info above. Just remember:

All (M14, FAL, G3/CETME) good Cold War MBR designs , each in my view with their advantages / disadvantages

* CETME: neat pre-G3 design, reliable, tough, good history, pretty with the wood stocks, questionable Century reliability (I as well have heard later ones have better consistency of quality although the wood stocked versions seem to have dried up). Sights are so-so (G3 are better). Ergonomics are of HK type (read that as not so good). Quality spare parts may be harder to find (G3 easier) Accuracy in the middle of MBR expectations. Price -- can't beat it for $300. G3 will run you $100-150 more.
* FAL: superb design, ergonomics, sights are so-so, accuracy in the middle of MBR expectations, seems to be a bigger following of FAL-ers, parts easy to find, endless variations to tinker with, quality extremely dependent on original builder (Century - luck of the draw, home builts - luck of the draw, DSA, ARS, Ohio Rapid, etc. - high quality), price from cheap (Century = $400) to expensive (DSA SA58 - $1500-2000)
* M14/M1A: superb design, excellent sights, accuarcy typically better than average, huge following, spare parts easy to get, expensive -- minimum $1000, quality can be suspect (rumors of Springfield cast receivers/parts wearing prematurely)

CETME would be a great intro to MBR --- just remember to not expect perfection at that price.

[7.62FullMetalJacket]

Good info. Thoughtful.

[gun-fucious]

there are 360 TFL posts that mention the CETME
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/search.php?s=&action=showresults&searchid=73137

and 162 on THR:
http://www.thehighroad.org/search.php?s=&action=showresults&searchid=337023


heres a good CETME review:
http://www.cruffler.com/review-july-00.html

[Rocko]

One piece of advice - don't buy one sight unseen. Check http://www.cetmerifles.com for problems to look for when purchasing, specifically, the thread http://www.cetmerifles.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=119 .

While CETME's can be a decent rifle for the price, many have issues and will not work 100% out of the box.

One thing to note, the ATF has found issues with the muzzle brake used on Century's CETME and G3 clones. From now on, they are simply chopping the threaded portion of the barrel off. Presumably they will do this correctly and recrown the barrel as well, but we are talking Century here...

So, if you want one with the muzzle brake or at least the correct length barrel to perhaps install your own MB or fake flash hider (or perhaps a real flash hider in 367 days), you'll probably want to start looking now, before current rifles already in dealer stock are depleted.

Rocko

[Dave Markowitz]

SodaPop,

If you are considering a CETME you might also consider one of Century's G3 clones. The current crop of CETMEs -- like Marko's -- has the same furniture as the G3s. I got a G3 back on 8/30. I was able to hand-pick it and compared it with a few CETMEs as well. Two things sold me on the G3:

1. The safety works in what we consider the normal directions. I.e., down for Fire and up for Safe. The CETME is backwards.

2. The HK rear sight, cf. the weird CETME paddlewheel doohickey.

I haven't shot it yet but hope to get it out this weekend.

[iamkris]

I, like Frodo, opted for the G3 clone (Century C91) over the CETME. My rationale:

* Better condition of kits
* More parts availability
* Better sights
* More accesories

It is MBR accurate (e.g., 2-3 MOA) and light recoiling. I had a trigger job done by Bill Springfield in CO for $25 which greatly improved a miserable trigger and had the ejector tuned so it now runs 100%.

[Marcus]

Soda, I`ve been looking into these puppies too. Watching you happily blasting away at WW with your FAL probably had something to do with it. ;) After researching it for awhile I`ve pretty much decided to cough up the extra for a G-3. I like the sights and safety a lot better and they seem to be made from better condition parts. If I had another battle rifle or two already I might get the CETME but since this`ll be my only one I wanna get all the features I like. Hopefully I can find one at the KOP gunshow week after next! Marcus

[SodaPop]

MARCUS!!! Don't buy the CETME at Defcon!! I was up there last week and that is where I saw the CETME.:D Whats the deal with all the Ranger stuff there? Are any of those guys the owners?


Marko- the CETME I was looking at looked a lot like yours. I think it was $365. How good is that mount? A red dot is about all I'd want on one. I'm actually looking for two more rifles.

Frodo- where did you get yours?

I read a ton on TFL about CETME's last night. Seems like the ones out now have a better reputation. I still have to do more research.

[gun-fucious]

century bought the CETME stamped new recievers from Todd Bailey at Special Weapons

http://216.239.51.104/search?q=cache:ZSr18zHaZdgJ:www.specialweaponsllc.com/whatsnew.shtml+%22Special+Weapons%22+CETME&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

http://mwdg3.homestead.com/g3misc.html


lots o pix here
http://cetme.homestead.com/mbr.html

[Dave Markowitz]

Frodo- where did you get yours?

I picked my G3 up at Surplus City on Bustleton Pike in Feasterville, PA. He also had a few CETMEs like Marko's in stock.

If you go there tell them I sent you. Don't know if it'll do any good for you, but i fyou buy something it'll make me look good. :D

[SodaPop]

CETME recoi is very light for a .308.

:confused:

I've fired a grand total of 2 HK91 rifles and I thought the recoil was considerable more than my FAL. Maybe because they were lighter?

My FAL weighs about 3lbs more than the average FAL with all the doodads I have on it.

[Dave R]

Soda, one of the key differences between the CETME and the HK is that the HK unlocks later, allowing more recoil to be passed through to the shooter. The CETME unlocks earlier, so less recoil is passed to the shooter and more is absorbed in the action. I saw the stats on # of kG or pressure each unlocks at, but didn't keep the data. FWIW, www.cruffler.com notes the same thing in their review of the CETME. The HK is a thumper, but the CETME is pretty mild.

The muzzle brake may have something to do with it, too. That thing is LOUD. OTOH, I read a post from one guy at the CETME forum who removed his muzzle brake, and he claimed it didn't make much difference. (I read it on the Internet! It must be true!)

[pdt203]

I have a CETME and I love it. Took lots of cleaning at first, and I bought a bunch of Aluminum G3 mags to go with it. The magazines are hit and miss, just pick out the ones you would trust and pitch the rest.

[iamkris]

I still don't know where this persistent rumor that a G3 / HK91 recoils more than a CETME (or an FAL for that matter). I own a G3 and a DSA STG, and have fired a CETME extensively. They are all pussycats for a 308 MBR. The difference to them is indistinguishable to my un-calibrated shoulder.

Maybe I've been shooting big bore bolt action and single shot rifles too long :confused: but these rifles do NOT recoil hard. Then again, recoil is a subjective thing so YMMV.

[Marcus]

Soda,most of the time I go in there they don`t even have a CETME for me to look at. But Brent said they`d have several CETMEs and 2 or 3 G3s at the KOP show. :D As for the owner I dunno. Brent is the manager but I don`t think he owns it,at least not totally? Marcus

[hksw]

My FAL weighs about 3lbs more than the average FAL with all the doodads I have on it.

I think this is the main reason as to why your FAL is shooting easier than the CETME, G3, and 91. 3 lbm is a lot.

My wood stocked CETME is the easiest to shoot as compared to my other semi .308s, which include FALs. Not by a lot but noticable.