What's the deal with the BT-99 ?


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Brasso
September 29, 2008, 06:40 PM
For some odd reason I've been pricing single barrels lately. Mostly because I can't afford a good double. I have a cheap Italian O/U already. So I'm looking at the Browning BT-99 and I can't believe the price! Over $1100 for a single shot? What's so special about it?

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TaxPhd
September 30, 2008, 01:28 PM
It's a quality, purpose-built Trap gun. Totally different from the typical H&R single barrel type guns.



Scott.

Brasso
September 30, 2008, 05:05 PM
I get that it's better than an H&R. But $1100? That's crazy. There are good auto's and pumps that don't cost near that much. It's not like they have to align two barrels. It's just a single shot, single barrel, simple design shotgun. Despite how well it's made, I just don't see how it could cost more to make than a good auto?

Is there something to making it that demands the price? Hand fitting, etc?

win71
September 30, 2008, 06:05 PM
I get that it's better than an H&R. But $1100?
Actually it is one of the less expensive single barrel trap guns.
Kind of like the H&R being manufactured in a blacksmith shop and the BT 99 in a machine shop.
You wouldn’t normally throw a BT 99 in your pick-up and use it for road hunting all year. Nor would you normally shoot competition trap with a H&R single barrel.

Brasso
September 30, 2008, 06:27 PM
So basically, it's over $1100 because people are willing to pay that much for it and it's the only game in town, not because it costs that much to make?

There are plenty of excellent working, well fitted pumps and auto's that can do everything that the BT99 can do as far as shooting trap, but cost hundreds less. This is what I don't understand. I don't shoot much trap any more, but as a teenager I could easily get 22-23 out of 25 with a Mossberg 835 pump. I don't think I was missing those couple of clays because my gun didn't cost enough.

If someone wanted a well made single shot, besides H&R, but didn't want to spend more than a good auto costs, what are the options? Are there any other makers out there?

oneounceload
September 30, 2008, 06:46 PM
a BT-99 will last many thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of rounds - your typical H&R will not.....you should try pricing Ljutic's or Krieghoff's if you think the BT-99 is expensive....LOL

ArmedBear
September 30, 2008, 08:13 PM
Look at a quality break-action gun. The machining required is a lot more difficult than what it takes to make an 870.

If I can find one that someone is selling, though, I'd much rather have an old Ithaca 5E than a BT.

TaxPhd
September 30, 2008, 08:28 PM
So basically, it's over $1100 because people are willing to pay that much for it and it's the only game in town, not because it costs that much to make?

Prices are based on what the market will bear, not what an item costs to produce. Costs creates a floor, but rarely the final price.

There are plenty of excellent working, well fitted pumps and auto's that can do everything that the BT99 can do as far as shooting trap, but cost hundreds less.

If this were true, you would regularly see them in the winners circle at the Grand. You don't (see them regularly), because they're not (just as good).

This is what I don't understand. I don't shoot much trap any more, but as a teenager I could easily get 22-23 out of 25 with a Mossberg 835 pump. I don't think I was missing those couple of clays because my gun didn't cost enough.

Looks like you need to get back into it. Lots of big money to be made by a good trap shooter (although an 88-92% average won't cut it).




Scott

win71
September 30, 2008, 09:53 PM
This is what I don't understand
I believe you would be happier with the Mossy.

chrisgo
October 1, 2008, 12:49 PM
You call $1100 expensive for a trap gun? I shoot a $6000 Krieghoff as my main gun and have several other $2500 single shots for back up guns.
c.g.

Brasso
October 1, 2008, 02:10 PM
Like I said, "this is what I don't understand".

Why does a shotgun have to cost that much to be called a "Trap Gun". What is so special about them, or even the more expensive ones, that people are willing to spend so much on them when a Rem 1100 can do the same thing?

1KPerDay
October 1, 2008, 02:20 PM
Yeah, why buy a $20K Parker when a $200 Mossberg will do the same thing?

;)

oletymer
October 1, 2008, 02:34 PM
A lot of people shoot trap with the cheaper guns you talk about and don't win because they do not understand either.

rcmodel
October 1, 2008, 02:45 PM
Why buy a Ferrari when a Yugo will do the same thing!

Well, almost.

rcmodel

JohnBT
October 1, 2008, 02:59 PM
"I don't think I was missing those couple of clays because my gun didn't cost enough."

We will never know, but it's possible you were.

____________

"What is so special about them, or even the more expensive ones, that people are willing to spend so much on them when a Rem 1100 can do the same thing? "

Adjustable ribs, adjustable stocks, better chokes, better barrels, better triggers. A trap gun can have a lighter trigger than a hunting gun and doesn't need a safety.

____________

A thousand bucks or so for a trap gun doesn't sound like a lot compared to the $1200 and $1500 camo duck guns like the Beretta Extrema and Benelli SBE.

And anyway, doesn't a Remington 1100 Trap model run $800 or $900?

John

JohnBT
October 1, 2008, 03:06 PM
Okay, had to look. Better wood, cut checkering, better finish, better barrel, trap chokes, etc.

ww.impactguns.com/store/047700253336.html

"The Model 1100 Classic Trap carries a 30" low-profile, light-target contoured vent rib barrel with standard .727" dimensions. Included are three specialized Rem™ Choke trap tubes: Singles (.027"), Mid Handicap (.034"), and Long Handicap (.041"). The fore-end and Monte Carlo stock are semi-fancy American walnut with deep-cut checkering and a high-gloss finish."

Only $951.99

MSRP $1129

http://www.remington.com/images/products/firearms/shotgun/mainbty_1100classictrap.jpg

Jim Watson
October 1, 2008, 03:21 PM
I shot a good deal of ATA Trap at one time. I started out with a Remington 1100 TA; plain finish, stamped checkering, flat vent rib, just a straighter stock than the usual rabbit gun. I did ok with it but got to wanting something nicer. Over several years I owned Winchester, Browning, and Perazzi trap guns. I shot about everything else on the market at the time, looking for the Wondergun. I always went back to the 1100. It kicked less and broke as many birds as the deluxe singles and O/Us. (More than some, but that was likely stock fit, or the goshawful rib pitch of a Model 12.)

In those days, there was always a company representative at trapshoots of any size. Good thing, I went through a number of parts for that 1100. Probably exaggerated, the rep was always in a hurry and would replace the whole trigger group or bolt rather than adjust, repair, or find and change a small part.

00-Guy
October 1, 2008, 03:23 PM
Brasso,

TaxPhD gave you the right answer. It is a specialized tool. If you are serious about wanting to shoot competitively at American Single Trap or American Handicap Trap, the BT 99 is a good entry-level gun. What Dr Tax was telling you nicely is that even 100 straight in either discipline isn't going to win you anything at most ATA events or "big" chain shoots. You often find that several other shooters have shot that. And bingo! You're in a shootoff. A H&R might work if you are going to shoot in the "fun" league or fun shoots. But the days of using an inexpensive gun to shot competitively are long gone at the ATA level.

Let's take a look at the H&R versus the BT 99. The H&R wins on being inexpensive. It might have a 24 inch long barrel, a fixed modified choke, flat shooting (50/50 pattern) and an unadjustable stock. The BT 99 has a 32 or 34 inch barrel (able to aid in the swing thru of the gun), either a fixed choke (usually full or possibly an extra full) or a set of choke tubes, either a 60/40 or 70/30 pattern (aids in hitting a raising target), and possibly an adjustable stock. You can also get a release trigger for the 99. You can also get a release trigger for the H&R. It just might cost you three times the cost of the gun.

You are not going to use a BT99 for hunting. The H&R Pardner is a good gun to teach someone to shoot shotgun.

I bet if you look in your tool box you have more than 1 hammer. I would not use my 3 pound sledge hammer to drive a 6 penny finish nail or my 2 oz ball pein to frame a house. They are specialized tools. Same here with the aforementioned guns.

For the record, I started shooting trap with a Charles Daly field gun. After about 6 months I decided to "up" my game and bought a used BT99. I used the 99 for about another year and upgraded to my current gun over 4 years ago. I still enjoy shooting. If the H&R or pump or Spartan or Daly make you happy go for it. For nice looking looking BT99 look at the Joel Etchen Guns website. Look at the Leo or Pigeon Grade guns.

(Note: it took me a while to put this in and a few other folks also replied so there might be some overlap.)

PJR
October 1, 2008, 05:32 PM
Having owned 1100s and a BT99 the difference is durability. There are many BTs that have gone past the 100,000 round mark with no failures, repairs or parts replaced. I cannot say the same about the 1100.

My BT99 was bought used. I put 25 thousand or so rounds through it and the man who bought it figures he has shot 100,000 without a single failure. He took it to a Browning rep at a shoot. They replaced a firing pin, a spring and sent him on his way.

That's the deal with the BT99.

ShowMe2
October 1, 2008, 10:28 PM
Yo Brasso,

Here's the scoop dude...I went to both the Grand in Sparta and the Missouri State shoot. I saw hundreds of shooters, and I could count the number of competitors who used gas guns on one hand. Most were dressed in pink and had ribbons in their hair. I didn't really look to see if anyone was shooting a Mossberg, but I didn't see any of those either.

It's all about durability, consistency, craftmanship, and admittedly there is a bit of the snob factor involved. If you can't see the difference in quality and craftmanship between the average Browning BT-99 and the average pump or gas gun, then buy a pump or an autoloader. Actually, some of the high end autoloaders approach the BT-99 in price.

Remember, it's not the arrow, it's the Indian.

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