[boots]

i hate prefacing everything with a disclaimer, but in this day and age, here i go... all info presented in this discussion is for informational purposes only, not to be applied to a real-world situation.... here i go...


if someone were shot with a mag-safe or glaser round(not sure if it is the same thing), and the bullet(pieces) were extracted from the person who was shot, wouldn't it be extra hard to get any type of rifling marks from the glaser fragments? thereby making it very difficult to exactly identify which gun it came from? or do prefrangible bullets get rifling marks like any other bullet?

[CWL]

Well, there's 'frangible' bullets and there's 'pre-fragmented'.

Your question regarding glasers and magsafe is valid because these and similiar bullets designed to disintegrate (birdshot held in epoxy or compressed powdered alloy) inside a target will not leave a traditionally rifled slug for LE agencies to study.
These are the frangible bullets. The Glasers were originally created for use by Air Marshals for carry & deployment aboard airplanes, the idea was as much to prevent bullets from penetrating the airplane as it was to not penetrate hijackers. Since these were and are for use by LEOs, and law-abiding citizens, the subject of tracing the bullet to gun doesn't really come up -if ever. In addition, these are incredibly rare and expensive bullets, not commonly used by good guys or criminals. I think that these may even be easier to trace back to original point of purchase due to their rarity.

Pre-fragmented bullets (like Triton Quik-shok) are bullets designed to break into 3 or more 'pre-cut' pieces inside a target, these can easily be reassembled by a forensic tech for rifling charachteristics.

[Jeff OTMG]

Glaser and MagSafe are both prefragmented. When fired at close enough range that the slug disrupts there is no ballistic fingerprint left. Frangible slugs are target loads made for safety for use on steel targets to prevent pieces of the slug from splashing back on the shooter. They do not leave a ballistic fingerprint on the slug when used against the intended speed plate or pepper popper as the slug disentigrates on impact.

[KahrKarrier]

JEFFOTMG, Is RBCD ammo frangible or prefragmented?
In your educated opinion, is RBCD a viable choice for a woman to carry in .380cal as a close in (inside of 10 feet) self defense round? My MRS carries an NAA Guardian .380 and most quasi-experts and some true experts tout that the .380 is a poor choice as a self defense weapon.
Please be honest and forth coming with your answer. Anyone who feels qualified to answer is invited to chime in.
Thanks----Jed

[Snowdog]

On most prefragmented projectiles, the copper jacket quickly peels open after impact and decelerates to a stop as the shot disperses. However, the jackets usually remain in one (albeit torn/upset) piece. When the MagSafe, et al, travels through the barrel of the firearm fired from, it will leave unique impressions on the jacket. This jacket is of course recoverable, regardless of the range fired from.

Though there would certainly be more effort involved to record detailed marks left by rifling impressions off a mangled piece of copper, it is absolutely possible and very likely probable, in most cases. If the suspected firearm is recovered, a positive match would likely be eminent.

Keep in mind, forensics in this modern age is a far cry from forensics of ten or twenty years ago; traditional rifling impressions are not the only science available. With the utilization of the NIBIN system, forensic examiners have a pantheon of helpful technologies at their disposal.
A gas chromatograph, for example, to compare jacket composition and powder residue could help determine if the recovered trace material came from the same lot/batch (of ammunition) in your possession, or similar residues collected from your firearm. A modern chemical analysis of same-brand powders (residues) from different batches is quite capable of detecting the ever slightest variation, same can be said with the jacket material.
There is no such thing as the perfect murder in today's world, which is a good thing.
;)

[Jeff OTMG]

RBCD is not considered either. Prefragmented is a slug made up of 'pieces' that go on separate paths after impacting a target. A frangible is made to 'powder' on a hard steel target, yet will penetrate a body or soft material like a FMJ. RBCD disrupts in a body like a prefragmented round, but will penetrate intermediate barriers like sheet rock, sheet metal, and wood like a frangible.

The RBCD .380 is a 45 gr slug at 1500 fps. There is a member from TFL, who possible is now on this board now, who shot an attacking Mastiff (a REALLY BIG dog) with the RBCD .380 and he was very happy with the performance. Go down to the post by Marmy something in this thread for a first hand account:
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=113315

The .380 RBCD is a good choice, IMO. My son carries it in his Guardian .380.