Why Marlin discontinue the 9mm and .45ACP camp carbine ?


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sandy4570
September 30, 2008, 06:09 PM
Why Marlin stop making this nifty little carbine ? . It is such great concept that one can arms with M1911A1 pistol and have long gun that use the same magazine for longer range. I have read that Marlin had problem with maintaining political correctness image of this camp carbine and avoid associated it with assault weapon etc. Is this one the reason that shooting public kind of boycott the camp carbine ? I want to get .45 ACP version but could not find one with reasonable price anymore. :(

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JImbothefiveth
September 30, 2008, 06:11 PM
I thought it looked interesting too, but think they should have built it to take at least 12 round magazines.

They probably discontinued it due to sales.

gvnwst
September 30, 2008, 07:00 PM
problem with maintaining political correctness.........avoid associated it with assault weapon etc........Is this one the reason that shooting public kind of boycott the camp carbine

they discontinued it due to poor sales, but not for above reasons. if the shooting public cared at all about "scary assault type weapons", the AR 15 wouldn't be so popular.:)

I agree with you though, it is a great little carbine

Rmart30
September 30, 2008, 08:57 PM
Yup, the prices on the used ones do get pricey. If Springfield came out with a XD carbine that took their same hicap pistol mags id buy 2 tomorrow ! :D

Speedo66
September 30, 2008, 09:00 PM
"Could not find one with reasonable price".

I just looked on Guns America for the 9mm version, someone has a new one and wants $800!! Give me a break, that gun's value does not equal $800 to me.

Does anyone know the years of production on them? Says it has a 13 round mag which would be illegal in my state (10 round limit) if it's too new.

SCPigpen
September 30, 2008, 11:33 PM
See this thread.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=394395&page=2

Mr_Rogers
October 1, 2008, 12:10 AM
I bought two in 9mm a while back. Since they take S&W magazines you can get up to 20 round mags.

Good fun and politically correct in Calif. with the right mag.

Since I bought a couple of Beretta Storms I have one Marlin on consignment for $450 with no takers. Scope mounts included. So it looks as though you are not looking closely enough or there is a big difference between 9mm and 45 prices.

jerkface11
October 1, 2008, 12:21 AM
How about an Olympic carbine? They don't have the Glock mag .45 out yet but I'm sure they're working on it. You can however get them in .40 and 9mm that take Glock mags.

t george
October 1, 2008, 12:34 AM
i too would like to have a springfield carbine that uses the xd mags... that might just be the last gun i would ever buy if they made it... but prolly not.. i think i got that illness...

MAKster
October 1, 2008, 12:53 PM
I'm sure Marlin discontinued them for the same reason Ruger stopped making their pistol caliber carbine - poor sales.

jjohnson
October 1, 2008, 02:22 PM
Yeah, it's all a matter of economics.

If Marlin had made big money on it, they'd have made more - and would have fixed the problems like the buffer that didn't last 500 rounds for me
and a few other annoying things. :barf:

I'd never carry either my 9mm or 45 carbine into combat... but they're fun enough.:D

Why would a guy in ********** want one, though? You're not supposed to enjoy your constitutional rights there, are you? :scrutiny:

JR47
October 1, 2008, 04:23 PM
Neither gun was reliable , or durable, enough for anything beyond plinking, and maybe a little hunting. They weren't cheap in the value of the time, and hadn't the cachet of other, more war-like weapons.

They don't quite fit into a niche. LEO goes to .223 rifles, and home defense tends towards .223, 12 ga., or dedicated pistols. Taking advantage of the longer barrel also required loads that wouldn't be efficient in 4-5" barrels, either.

If you want to plink, the .22 lr is the best value.:)

R.W.Dale
October 1, 2008, 04:27 PM
WHY? I've owned a couple I'll tell you why

because they weren't very good guns.

the plastic parts were of dubious quality

neither the 45 or 9mm had enough bolt mass to keep from breaking the stock as the bolt would slam against the reciever,and the bolt could slam the receiver because the tiny substandard buffer would disintegrate in a couple hundred rounds. All in all a throw together design with very little R&D or serious engineering put into it's development. Even a beat up hi-point carbine is on a whole nother level of reliability and durability from the most mint marlin camp carbine

Handyguy
October 1, 2008, 04:55 PM
Thank you Krochus! You probably saved me a bunch of $ and anger. You just convinced me NOT to buy one, that I did not need anyway. I'll just put those $ toward another Sig. They are addictive!

rondog
October 1, 2008, 05:33 PM
They sure look cool with a full suppressor though.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b150/rinselman/guns/campcarbinesuppressed.jpg

Wonder if I could get a can put on my Hi-Point .40 carbine?

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b150/rinselman/guns/DSCN1765.jpg

It's ugly, but shoots great!

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b150/rinselman/guns/DSCN1764.jpg

ShakyJake
October 1, 2008, 07:27 PM
I believe that Krochus is on the money. Back when thay first came out a number of PD's even looked at them, but felt there were issues of durability and reliability. The buffer was biggest culprit. There is a more durable one on the market that will even fit the .22wmr 922. That is a different cat but can also be pricey. Mine was very reliable and accurate.
TaKe CaRe
Ted

Speedo66
October 1, 2008, 08:55 PM
"You just convinced me NOT to buy one..."

+1, thanks for the heads up.

I've looked at a Hi-Point; I know it's a great gun, gets great reviews, and the owners love 'em, but there is just something about it that turns me off.

The search continues....

There's a smallbore 25 yard outdoor range 15 minutes from my house that lets LEOs shoot for free.

The range is limited to .22s, pistols, and rifles that use pistol cartridges, to include M-1 Carbine. I'd like to find an interesting, but reasonably priced, 9mm carbine that wouldn't choke on a diet of Wolf.

Domino
October 1, 2008, 09:45 PM
The range is limited to .22s, pistols, and rifles that use pistol cartridges, to include M-1 Carbine. I'd like to find an interesting, but reasonably priced, 9mm carbine that wouldn't choke on a diet of Wolf.


Not trying to hijack the Marlin thread but...

My Sub-2000 shoots Wolf just fine, that and WWB which are my primary plinking rounds. Don't forget you can get them to take Glock 9mm mags which are very available and very reliable. For ~$300 they are well worth the cash IMO.

sandy4570
October 2, 2008, 02:23 AM
Well, I guess I shouldn't miss it all that much then. I almost get one while stationed in Germany but I had other rifle on layaway and they won't let me cancel the layaway after the paper work . I thought I could get one when I rotated back to stateside but never got around to it .

janobles14
October 2, 2008, 03:02 AM
damn right on the high point carbines! when the .45 comes out i am the first one on the list!

the rugers were just too expensive. they didnt sell for that reason.

Chuck Jennings
October 2, 2008, 11:51 AM
[QUOTE]The range is limited to .22s, pistols, and rifles that use pistol cartridges, to include M-1 Carbine. I'd like to find an interesting, but reasonably priced, 9mm carbine that wouldn't choke on a diet of Wolf./QUOTE]

If you can find one of the Ruger carbines, they are built like a tank, and take just about anything you feed them in my experience.

JR47
October 2, 2008, 01:49 PM
The PC-9 and PC-40 were built to handle regular shooting/qualifying, and patrol car stowage. They are heck for strong. So are the magazines.

I still own a Marlin Camp 9, and it is pretty accurate with ammo that it likes, but isn't nearly as durable as the PC series carbines.

The .30 M1 carbine was purpose built to operate a 110 grain bullet at 1950 fps. This is more powerful than a .357 magnum, has a 15 round capacity, and is also tough, accurate, and durable. After all, it's been in use for upwards of 60 years. Recent ammunition developments, such as those of Cor-Bon, have made the .little carbine ever more useful.:)

rondog
October 2, 2008, 02:32 PM
I've looked at a Hi-Point; I know it's a great gun, gets great reviews, and the owners love 'em, but there is just something about it that turns me off.

I understand, they sho' be ugly, no doubt. But for a list price of $179.99 and a lifetime warranty, a HP carbine is a lotta fun to shoot! I'm going to buy a 995 9mm for my 11y.o. grandson, so he'll leave my .40 carbine alone. They're lots of fun, like riding a Moped....just don't let your friends see you with one.

Speedo66
October 2, 2008, 04:18 PM
The problem with .30 carbine ammo is the price. The cheap carbine ammo is generally about 50% more than cheap 9mm. Also, I'm not sure I want to pump Wolf, etc. down a nice M-1 carbine.

frankd4
October 2, 2008, 04:29 PM
Baretta Storme in 9, 40 and 45acp uses pistol mags decent gun.

Phil DeGraves
October 2, 2008, 04:32 PM
I thought it looked interesting too, but think they should have built it to take at least 12 round magazines.

You can get 30 round drum magazines for the 1911 which will fit in it.

seeker_two
October 2, 2008, 04:34 PM
I wish Ruger would re-release their 9mm/.40S&W carbine....maybe even a .45ACP version for P90/P97/P345 fans....

Like their 96 lever actions, I just don't think Ruger gave them enough of a chance (esp. with marketing)... :(

mgregg85
October 2, 2008, 07:47 PM
Kel-Tec SUB-2000 works great and is available in 9mm and .40 S&W.

Hi-cap mags are easily available as well.

mgregg85
October 2, 2008, 07:48 PM
You can get 30 round drum magazines for the 1911 which will fit in it.

If those are pro-mag drums the trouble would be getting them to work.

fredfellini
October 2, 2008, 10:33 PM
A couple of years back I too was looking for a camp carbine in 45 acp to mate up with my 1911's. However after researching the topic, I came to the same conclusion: aside from being discontinued, they're too expensive and too poorly built. But the concept is great.

I ended up with a Beretta Storm in 9mm, and bought a SA 1911 in 9mm to go along with it. Very happy with the Beretta - it's alot of fun, but not a serious blaster. Mags don't interchange, but I take them to the range together and just shoot 9mm - the ammo's cheaper too in 9mm!

sandy4570
October 3, 2008, 02:50 AM
[QUThe problem with .30 carbine ammo is the price. The cheap carbine ammo is generally about 50% more than cheap 9mm. Also, I'm not sure I want to pump Wolf, etc. down a nice M-1 carbine.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
OTE][/QUOTE]

Military grade M1 Carbine would be fine as long as it is not valuable collector (mine is $175 Pawnshop find ) but commercial made Carbine with tight chamber will break extractor beak pretty fast. I roll my own Carbine ammo so it cost about the same.

The PC-9 and PC-40 were built to handle regular shooting/qualifying, and patrol car stowage. They are heck for strong. So are the magazines.


I came across one right before they discontinue and really like it ,too bad they never made one in .45 ACP it would be nice match up with Ruger P90/97/345 pistol

JNewell
October 4, 2008, 07:52 PM
Agree on the Kel-Tec. Has all the advantages of this class, plus you can choose your magazine flavor and it folds.

cacop
October 5, 2008, 12:03 AM
My PD issued them before my time. They were such pieces of crap they pretty much fell apart within a couple of years. I heard the last year or so they were used people would check them out for the shift and pocket the mag since the PD mandated Smith autos at the time. They went back to shotguns before going to MP5s in 10mm. Eventually ARs replaced those.

The only story I heard of the Camp 9 being an effective tool for my PD was when an officer had to buttstroke someone with it and it dropped the dude instantly.

deesel
October 5, 2008, 03:20 PM
I have a 45 Camp carbine and it has been a great gun!! The buffer issue was taken care of by an old gun smith (passed) w/ his own invention. He also cleaned u the feed ramp and did some trigger work. I can't think of one malfunction since the work with good 10 rnd mags (Ed Brown)and w/ my old IPSC load 200g swc and 4.7g clays it shoots sub 1" groups at 100 yards.

They stopped building it because of lack of sales. The 9 was made one year after the 45 was is continued.

A while ago I took mine to a pin shoot and let a couple of guys shoot it, all of them liked and a couple had to go out and find one of there own

underwritingtech
October 5, 2008, 10:30 PM
The Beretta Storm is a neat little carbine and, depending on the model, will use all 92 (9mm), 96 (.40) and PX4 mags.

Harley Quinn
October 8, 2008, 01:51 PM
I think Marlin was cutting back and needed to stop making dust collectors. I personally think the 35 rem is one of the best out there, you can load it with 357 bullets (pistol or rifle) and it becomes a pretty handy dude.

:uhoh:

DonP
October 8, 2008, 02:07 PM
I'd be remiss if I didn't throw in the Mech Tech Carbine Conversion Unit I have for my 1911 in .45 ACP a few years back. I think it cost around $130 back when I bought it.

It takes about a minute to change the pistol over to the Carbine configuration and you can use any magazine that fits a 1911. I have a couple of 15+ rounders I picked up at a gun show that work fine and my regular Chip McCormick 10 round mags never give me a problem either.

I put a cheapie red dot sight on it and recently switched over to an equally inexpensive reflex sight.

It ain't real pretty, but I've never had problem with it as far as feeding or ejection goes and it's suprisingly accurate out to 100 yards for a pistol caliber.

ArmedBear
October 8, 2008, 02:10 PM
Uh, because these pistol cartridges don't perform well enough to justify buying a carbine for practical applications, and for plinking, a .22 works just as well for a lot less money?

phoglund
October 8, 2008, 02:17 PM
I think the Kel-Tec Sub2000 is a great option...if I could find one. :(

Speedo66
October 9, 2008, 12:24 AM
I called Kel-Tec today about the Sub2000. Sales dept says they make them in batchs, but not too many and not too often. Don't see any logic in that if the guns are wanted and you can't find/buy them.

They said they just shipped some to some distributors, and should be making more soon.

daorhgih
October 19, 2008, 10:45 PM
Are you saying that a Colt 9x19mm drum mag will install and fire in a KelTec P11 9x19mm??

vinnydq
March 9, 2010, 01:00 PM
Hey i love the gun almost as much as the high point but the reason why they stopped making/selling them is that buffer pad. You had to replace it every 35 years and like me i didn't know till it was too late tried to keep shooting and messed up the action. A little piece of space age plastic towards the back of the action. Which brings me to my question/ problem after putting the action back together trigger won't reset. I have to push the trigger foward after each shot. any one know the fix. still love the guhttp://www.thehighroad.org/images/smilies/banghead.gifn, wish it had

LouisCyphre
March 29, 2014, 04:45 AM
I can guess a reason Marlin discontinued the Camp 9. They discontinued it one year after the S&W 5906 was discontinued. I believe one of the marketing points of the Camp 9 was to have a rifle that used the a magazine that was compatible with a standard duty LEO sidearm. A LEO could take their spare S&W 59 or 69 series magazine and use it in a department issued 9mm rifle.

I am of the frame of mind that if you have a rifle chambered in a pistol caliber, it's a good idea to have it be able to utilize the magazines of a pistol you own.

M1GarandDeerHunter
March 29, 2014, 07:11 AM
Okay, ancient thread. Ill bite. Saw one at Cabelas in Green Bay 03/01/2014. Cost? Hold on to your saddle..... $700 plus:eek: .45 auto. You can buy an AR for that. :scrutiny:

horsemen61
July 20, 2014, 02:24 AM
I just put a 9mm version on layaway for 400 good deal IMHO yes

jmorris
July 20, 2014, 02:40 AM
Yep, an old thread for sure.

I have an early camp 9 IIRC around #365, accurate always has run well with the mags that came with it.

Don't use aluminum case ammo with them as they don't have enough neck tension and the bullet will set back and blow the E clips off the trigger group and split the stock.

It cost less than $400 new. I would sell it for $700 with two stocks (one has been repaired) and two trigger groups (one is just for parts).

Like anything, quit making them when you don't make any money doing so.

M1GarandDeerHunter
July 20, 2014, 02:16 PM
If you can find one for 400 bucks, you MADE money $$ :neener: LOL!

Furncliff
July 20, 2014, 02:43 PM
horseman 61. Change the buffer and recoil springs before you shoot it.

You can find both here.....

http://www.blackjackbuffers.com/index.php?main_page=advanced_search_result&search_in_description=1&keyword=camp+9

I use a 4x scope on mine but Skinner has a nice peep sight that will fit the Camp 9. Mine will not feed anything but brass cased ammo. Resist the temptation to have anyone do a trigger job on your rifle. The trigger group is all plastic and fiddling here can lead to slam fires. Don't ask me how I know.

stiab
July 21, 2014, 12:45 AM
I have found two in .45acp at local gunshops, bought both, and sold both. They almost always have buffer issues, and a little wood actually need to be removed behind the receiver to keep it from eventually splitting. Also, reassembly often results in a non-functioning gun, that's why I let my gunsmith do it all.

On a brighter note, usually these threads have a person or two telling us that the .45acp performance does not improve significantly with a carbine barrel, but I disproved that in actual chrono tests in comparison with a 4" revolver. The carbine results are actually quite impressive for the .45.

M1GarandDeerHunter
July 23, 2014, 12:14 AM
Stiab, Just curious, is the velocity increase with 230 fmj or with lighter bullets or both? I have read the same information, that .45 acp doesnt deliver higher velocities in carbine length firearms. Ive never had a carbine and was wondering that fact as well. I had a .357 carbine that really impressed me with the velocity gains. It was a pretty serious power upgrade.

Learned alot from you guys with regards to stock splitting and brass cased ammo, trigger mods. Thanks.

splithoof
July 23, 2014, 03:34 AM
^^^^My chrono tests of .45ACP, from a 16" UZI barrel taken in March of 1989 show that most 230 grain ball loads are very close to, or a bit over 1,000 FPS. The measurements taken with an old Pro Tach chronograph ten feet from the muzzle. For comparison, a slew of 1911 pattern pistols (5" barrels) from various makers clocked around 795-872 FPS. That difference is also representative of a number of lighter loads, both jacketed and hard lead.

As for the carbines, I wish the Beretta used Glock magazines; the Cougar magazines I believe only hold eight rounds. Sure would be nice if Glock had a carbine!

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