[speedracer81]

hey guys, I just tested my first batch of reloads up against some factory ammo and the group my ammo made was almost double the factory ammo group at the given range :banghead:. loads are 9mm and test weapon was a xd-9 tactical. my barrel was also heavily leaded after just 50 rounds of my reloads

my load: 124gr. lead RN (from kempfs)
3.8gr of bullseye
cci small pistol primer
winchester brass

factory load: winchester white box 115gr fmj

range was 20 yards. everything was loaded using the lee clasic turret press w/pro auto disk measure and lee deluxe pistol die set.

[Soldiersurfs]

Its kinda tough to compare lead to FMJ Especially 115 to 124

[Galil5.56]

Probably a few things in combination. Undersized bullet sounds like one, as does too hard/ineffective hard lube, maybe the wrong alloy for velocity or seating depth, and crimping errors. Many Euro spec 9mm pistols will not have a groove diameter that plays well with the defacto .356" sized to diameter. I size the 9mm bullets I cast .358", and as long as they chamber OK, go with the largest diameter bullet your pistol chamber will take. Might not be a bad idea to slug your pistol and order bullets using this measurement as your guide. .001-.002" over groove diameter would be where I would be.

A lot of the commercial hard "crayon" lube is not correct, and many would be better served by using a softer lube. What I have done to salvage commercial bullets is to tumble lube them in Lee liquid ALOX. The stuff works very well, and will greatly reduce leading. If the alloy is too soft or hard for velocity, this too can cause problems. Your Bullseye charge will get around 1025 fps in many pistols, so I would rather the bullet be a little softer than hard. Exact hardness I can't say. Finally do not over taper crimp. You will undersize the bullet, and that can cause what you are seeing. I personally do not like a Lee factory crimp die, as it ruins the bullets intended diameter, and poor results can happen. Might also try a slower burning propellant like WW231, and especially Unique... Stuff seems like magic in many cast bullet loads, especially in 9mm in my experience.

Good luck.

[Master Blaster]

What I have done to salvage commercial bullets is to tumble lube them in Lee liquid ALOX. The stuff works very well, and will greatly reduce leading.


Me too, try some unique and load to 850 fps for a target velocity load. Use the regular crimp die, the factory crimp is resizing your bullets smaller, and that can cause all of the problems listed.

It may also just be that your gun's rifling twist is too fast for lead bullets, IIRC Xd's do have conventional rifling and not polygonal right???

[speedracer81]

yes they have conventional rifling. I do not posses the required tools to slug my barrel. has anyone sluged a xd-9 tactical before on here?

[The Bushmaster]

You'll need to try different powder charges and different powders. That's the neat thing about reloading. You can taylor the round to your particular handgun or rifle. Your pistol may not like Bullseye...You may have to go to W-231 or Unique. Your pistol may not like lead either. Experiment...That's the fun and the name of the game...

If nothing else...You'll get lots of practice...

[jmundy]

I had a similar problem with a Ruger KP-95. It will shoot 115 gr. FMJs into a respectable group. I tried using Speer 125 gr. lead round nose in it. Got shotgun patterns.

Tried different powders and loads. It just didn't like 125 gr. lead.

Now it gets a steady diet of 115 gr. FMJs and we both are happy.

As some of the other folks have said, it may not like the powder, bullet, diameter of bullet, etc.

All of the above or any of the above could be the root cause.

Good luck!

[Walkalong]

my barrel was also heavily leaded after just 50 rounds of my reloadsWhich is why they were inaccurate. They are either too hard an alloy for the pressure, or too soft for the pressure/velocity. If you fix the leading issue, they will most likely shoot quite well.

What velocity were you getting? That is a light load. I imagine that the pressure is not enought to obturate the base of the bullet, thus causing gas cutting of the base and leading. Does the leading start at the breech or is it only towards the end of the barrel?

You should be able to shoot lead in your 9MM without leading. You probably need either a softer bullet or more pressure/velocity with the bullet you have.

Oh yea, if you squashed them undersized with a Lee FCD, that could be part of your problem.

[snuffy]

Well, I have to respectfully disagree that the lee fcd "resizes" bullets. especially the 9mm fcd. The 9mm round is tapered, so the bullet sits in the smaller neck, so the fcd carbide ring never touches there.

My experience with the 9mm fcd is that it seldom touches anything, EXCEPT the mouth where it performs a good job of taper crimping. Like with any crimp die, it could be set to crimp too much, thus deforming the bullet.

On another forum,(castboolits.com), A fellow caster had an issue with a 45 fcd. His WAS defective, in that the carbide ring was undersize. Instead of calling lee, getting a proper sized die, he knocked the carbide ring out of the die, used it as a taper crimp die!

That caused me to do a test with my loading set-up with a 4 die lee 45 acp set in my dillon 650. I use a 200 RNFP lee mold to cast boolits that measure .4525 as cast. Tumble lubed they are loaded and shot unsized,(SA 1911). I took a R-P empty, sized it, measured the O.D. of the neck, .469. Then it got flared, primed, powdered, and flared to .483. Next the boolit was seated to an O.D. .471. After passing through the fcd, the O.D. was STILL .471, with a crimp of .469. Most importantly the fcd did not do a darn thing to the brass, it did not touch the boolit area of the brass. It IS a tight fit in the die though, but can be pushed in with only hand pressure.

[Walkalong]

The 3 Lee FCD dies I have fooled with all oversizing a loaded round. That is all I have to go by. :)

How about your thoughts on the rest of it? I knew some would disagree with my FCD statement. ;)

[rcmodel]

I do not posses the required tools to slug my barrel. If you have a lead bullet, a dowel rod, and a hammer, you have the necessary tools to drive a bullet through the barrel.

If it doesn't fully engrave the rifling then your bore is too big for the bullets you are trying to use.

For even finer measurement, take the bullet to a gunshop or speed shop and have them measure it for you.

Or buy yourself a set of $15 dial calipers.
I can't imagine anyone trying to reload anything without them anyway!

rcmodel

[snuffy]

Walkalong, sorry for nit picking your statement, but it was repeated twice before you. The rest of what you said is spot on. A too hard bullet pushed too softly, a too weak load with a too soft a bullet, can all result in leading. The size is also important.

I do not posses the required tools to slug my barrel. has anyone sluged a xd-9 tactical before on here?

All that's needed to slug a barrel is to take it out of the pistol. Then get a hammer and a piece of wood dowel or brass rod. Then get a soft piece of lead that's a bit bigger than .355, look for some lead egg sinkers at a sporting goods store. Or if somebody you know has some .375 round balls for their black powder rifle/revolver. Then just pound one through the bore of the barrel. Then you will need a dial caliper or a good micrometer to read the slug. If you don't have these items, then you're simply guessing.

[Steve C]

Lead bullets take more work to get right than loading jacketed. I never had good luck using lead in the 9mm so I just bought jacketed bullets when on sale. If you don't cast your own you can't adjust the diameter of the bullet and usually have to take what's offered by the bullet maker.

[Walkalong]

I used to load Magnus cast bullets for my brother to shoot in his BHP. No problems. I still have a box of 500 actually.

I did not see it as nit picking snuffy, just your honest opinion, which is what we all want. Maybe I just got ahold of 3 bad dies. Talk about luck of the draw. Anyway, I don't care for them.

[speedracer81]

ok guys I went and purchased some calipers. the dia. of the bullet is .356 and the bore dia. is .355 acording to the calipers. I guess this leaves the bhn of the alloy being to hard or soft for my charge, or the bullet lube being insuficient. I am going to coat the bullets with Lee liquid alox. any sugestions on some starting powder measurements (using bullseye)

[speedracer81]

ok just slugged the bore and I could find no area on the bullet wider what
.355. man this micrometer is fun. now if you will excuse me, I'm going to go try it out on my wife:D

[Walkalong]

I guess this leaves the bhn of the alloy being to hard or soft for my charge, or the bullet lube being insuficient.Again, is the leading toward the end of the bore, or does it start at the throat? This will be a big help determining what you need to do. Oh, and not to spoil your fun, but getting a bore diameter with calipers is iffy at best. You need to slug the bore, but I don't think your bore or bullet diameter is the problem though.

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

I suggest posting the particular firearm and as many details related to the leading, etc. as you have, as someone who owns one and reloads lead for it successfully may have an insight.

Regards,

Dave

[Griz44]

I'm going to go try it out on my wife
Check the doghouse first, makes sure it's warm and clean, might need it for a day or two... :eek:

[The Bushmaster]

What?? Measure her or slug her??? I second the check on the dog house. And I'd move some blankets out there too, if I were you...

[speedracer81]

the leading starts right away in the barrel. starts in the throat and continues to lead in streaks.

[highlander 5]

I tried several load combos for my Baretta 92 and it just didn't
care for lead. After doing some research found out that the rate of twist in Most 9 mm is to fast(1 in 10 twist) So for giggles I purchased a Bar-Sto barrel 1 in 16 twist bore dia .3555 and match chamber much better accuracy and the added bonus of cases that barely expand. I did call Baretta on the problem and was told SAAMI specs for 9 mm bore dia can be as much as .358.

[Galil5.56]

My Beretta M9's groove dia is .3572". SAAMI throat entrance spec is .358", but groove dia spec is .355".

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v146/Abucaster/93908045.jpg

I'm calling BS on Beretta CS, and stick to what I said in my first response. Until you slug a barrel, or try different diameter bullets within reason, you will never know what it likes best. Although most jacketed "9mm" bullets are sized .355", in my situation jacketed ".38 bullets" sized .357" would seem the better choice if they will feed well, such as 125 grain Hornady XTP's. Just another reason to handload.

[BeJaRa]

sounds like you need to try increasing the load a little bit at a time and I bet you will see the leading go away.

[Walkalong]

the leading starts right away in the barrel. starts in the throat and continues to lead in streaks.Alloy too hard, or just not enough powder to get enough pressure for the alloy.

BeJaRa's advise is sound. If that won't cure it, you will need a bullet with a softer alloy.