[Javelin]

Well after almost a year....it finally arrived this week. The MDArms 20-round drum for the Saiga-12! Might I add that Mike did an exceptional job with it. The fit and finish is outstanding. The drum snaps in with ferocity and you can't even think about budging it as its perfectly aligned in the magwell(probably the most solid mag seating I have ever experienced).

I'll be taking it to the range this weekend just to test it out (and alot just for **** and giggles). The darn Tromix Saiga-12 with 11" barrel shoots faster than you can possibly pull the trigger. And with the 20-round drum it is not inhibited by low round count and would be handy in a HD situation (or for next Zombie invasion...haha).

Here are some pics. Enjoy!

http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/8182/saigadrumcont004we0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/7740/saigadrummag005vc2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/3038/saigadrummag006rm2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/5158/saigadrumcont007op4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/5323/saigadrumcont009jl5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[Domino]

Woah, very nice looking shotgun you have! :what:

Have a blast with that thing!

[Dave McCracken]

Cute. Let us know how it shoots. Thanks....

[james_bond]

Wow that looks mean, I like it.

[Javelin]

Cute. Let us know how it shoots. Thanks....

Thanks for the vote of confidence Dave. I was not expecting much and was happily surprised.. and lately that has not happend too often. I will post a range report. I need to find out if the bigger main spring has been installed or if I need to wait for it to arrive so that might damper using 00 buck until then. Wife says it looks like something out of a cartoon... so I guess it has her approval.


Though I did get in trouble for putting it on the counter... :)

[Girodin]

I'm envious of both the SBS and the drum.

[daveit]

We'll need a YouTube video :-)

[Dave McCracken]

You're very welcome. Javelin.

Saigas are kinda New School, Kalashnikov shotguns do not appear much in old sporting literature like Parkers do.

But, I've had a grudging respect for the system since 1970.

Input from folks like Correia tells me they are of merit.

I'd like to try one out, just for fun.

[jpatterson]

I've never liked the look of Saigas much, but that thing is dead sexy. I second the youtube notion.

[Ben Shepherd]

Dave, I'm happy with mine so far. Only about 500 rounds out the muzzle though. I only use the factory 5 round magazines. Tried one of those 10 rounders once. Didn't like it, just felt off. I'll keep working on it! BA/UU/R, right?

It started smoothing out nicely after the 200 round mark, before that it was a little "hitchy" while cycling. So far not one single malfunction of any kind. I've got it set on the lowest gas setting, and it cycles everything from wallyworld value pack #8's to 3" 12 pellet 00.

I know Correia put on the high side of 6,000 through his with no trouble before he rebuilt it during the conversion proccess. Even then the only part he only replaced that showed appreciable wear was the aluminum puck in the gas system.

Javelin- Sorry about the hijack. But at least I posted some useful info on durability, eh?

[stiletto raggio]

With that an a factory fiver, you could shoot a whole rounds of trap on one reload. Beautiful.

[Six Feet Under]

Go shoot skeet with it. :)

Looks very nice, I want one!

[Ben Shepherd]

Done both. Works.

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

Looks very cool. But you definitely need to take that vertical forward P-grip, and attach it to the left side rail, making it a horizontal forward P-grip. I don't see how you're going to be able to grab the one underneath with the drum in the way. You forearm will be jutted into hard, making a severe bent-wrist setup necessary, won't it? Assuming even possible.

[RP88]

nice drum, but I don't see the Saiga-12 under any of that--oh! There it is. Couldn't find it for a second.:p

[Dave McCracken]

Thanks, Ben. I hear Kalishnikov rifles are not noted for longevity with high round counts, but shotguns may be stressed less. I'm not enough of an engineer to know for sure.

Still, I'd like to run a few fast COFs with one side by side with an 870 to compare and contrast.

[Javelin]

Looks very cool. But you definitely need to take that vertical forward P-grip, and attach it to the left side rail, making it a horizontal forward P-grip. I don't see how you're going to be able to grab the one underneath with the drum in the way. You forearm will be jutted into hard, making a severe bent-wrist setup necessary, won't it? Assuming even possible.

I was thinking that too when pre-ordering the drum. I was hoping it was not going to impede movement or agility and I do not believe it did as it gives a little space between the forearm and the drum so you won't bump it too much (had it been an inch or so bigger it would not have worked so well).

The Saiga-12 is a bit "chunky" vs. a standard 16" AR. But the SBS shotty is pretty short... and in a way feels compact (and substantial in weight) as you are only staring at the short barrel. Here are some pics I just took that might help put it into perspective as it is very nimble for being a 20-rounder 12 gauge.

All in all when your barrel is so short there is not much rail to hold onto but you take what you can get in terms of a vertical grip and make good use of it.

http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/4076/saigacomparisons005vk1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img367.imageshack.us/img367/4640/saiga12002sz5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img123.imageshack.us/img123/4558/saigacomparisons007wl5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/2393/saigacomparisons006fc9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/1589/saigacomparisons014zk7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[Kind of Blued]

That is a really wicked shotgun. I love it.

Just engrave some hunting scenes on the receiver and I'd say you're good to go. ;)

[Javelin]

Thanks, Ben. I hear Kalishnikov rifles are not noted for longevity with high round counts, but shotguns may be stressed less. I'm not enough of an engineer to know for sure.

Still, I'd like to run a few fast COFs with one side by side with an 870 to compare and contrast.


The 870 is a sweet shotgun and definitely always going to be the yard stick when comparing reliability and functionality. Some nice younger folks had one on the range the first weekend I took my Saiga out and I let them take a chance at my Saiga and they did likewise. It was interesting to see the difference in the way that full power LE rounds felt on the shoulder by firing each. The Saiga's action really inhales the recoil so much that I am comfortable enough to not worry about fulling seating the buttstock in my shoulder before rapid firing. Might be the combination of weight + muzzle break + automatic action. The only thing that is the same as any other 12 gauge is the sound and concussion when shooting (and it is extremely intense to anyone standing near you due to the reward venting muzzle break).

I do not believe you will be able to beat the reliability of the 870 Express but when moving to automatics I think the AK-style action has its merits and hopefully will prove to be solid in a 12-gauge firearm. If you go the Tromix route they will go through the entire gun replace the gas piston with the Tromix one, re-align and open the gas ports, etc when they convert it so its kind of cheating and maybe not necessary but you only live once so why not?

:)

[Caipirinha]

That looks fun. How much does it weigh fully loaded?

[GregGry]

That thing with a rifled barrel would be the ultimate weapon to bring to a zombie boss fight.

[N1150X]

That is an awesome shotgun you have there I have two words for you "I want" What did it cost you for that setup?

[Rustynuts]

I'm guessing $1,000+ easy not including the drum at today's prices, and that may just cover the parts. Depends on how much work was DIY if any, if the gun was fully refinished, etc, etc. Not sure how much people are charging these days to properly shorten these, plus add $200 for tax stamp. You can't just chop the barrel off, as the gas port system may need reworked to cycle right.

[Javelin]

I'm guessing $1,000+ easy not including the drum at today's prices, and that may just cover the parts. Depends on how much work was DIY if any, if the gun was fully refinished, etc, etc. Not sure how much people are charging these days to properly shorten these, plus add $200 for tax stamp. You can't just chop the barrel off, as the gas port system may need reworked to cycle right.



Fully loaded with 20 shells it has a substantial weight to it. I don't have a scale atm but picking it up I would say it is approaching 13lbs fully loaded & equiped as the mag and shells definitely adds some weight to the gun which makes me glad that I had it cut to be balanced so the weight is not on one side or the other of the verticle grip.

As far as how much it cost.... I had Tony at Tromix Corp convert the gun, re-finish, add halo rails, new trigger, SBS barrel, open/replace gas ports/piston, etc. It takes a certain touch and much work to the gas ports to get these shotguns to reliably cycle on an 11" barrel and Tromix Corp did an exceptional job. It did have a price tag but I think I got a bargain because I finally have it. For me it was the time it takes from start to finish (18 months total but only about a year of real wait time to have it converted, tax stamp to clear, finish the conversion, etc) that was the most painful.

But its finished and I am tickled on how it turned out... 20 round drum mag included!

:)

[Smith]

:what: That thing is awesome!!! I would trade my left arm for one of those, but then I wouldn't be able to fire it.

[Realbigo]

See, Now this is what I recomended for Werewolf hunting.
See below
http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=385868&highlight=werewolves

[chas08]

All traditional BS aside. I'd love to test drive that baby and stir up some dust. Awsome looking shotgun. Happy shooting. :)

[neviander]

Wait...how is it that you've only got an 11" barrel on there?

[Javelin]

Wait...how is it that you've only got an 11" barrel on there?

Just register on Form 1 with the BATFE include a $200 check and wait a couple months for the tax stamp to come back on the form. Then you can have a shotgun/rifle of any length you want...for now anyway.

:)

[younganddumb]

can you please send me a PM with how to get it all and how much $$$ with detail as to what you did I am very intrested in one

Thanks
Zach

[Javelin]

can you please send me a PM with how to get it all and how much $$$ with detail as to what you did I am very intrested in one

Thanks
Zach



It is pretty simple if you have Tromix Corp do the modification (just takes some waiting due to que times).

1) You can first check out Tromix Corp's online assortment of conversions here:

http://www.tromix.com

2) Then once you have chosen a custom gun (you can mix and match accordingly) you can either buy your own gun or see if Tony has one in stock that you can purchase from him.

Thats it...unless you want a seriously customized CLIII Short Barrel Shotgun. This is where it gets a little more involved and starts to get expensive due to the work on the gas ports, tax stamp, etc.

2.A.) For Short Barrel Shotguns I suggest you start by buying your own Saiga-12 from a dealer to avoid an additional 4+ months waiting peroid to transfer past the 9-10 months it will take anyway(Tromix Corp to submit form 1, Form transfer to your CLIII Dealer, and again another Form transfer to you). That's a lot of time (and potentially money in fees) that you can avoid by just submitting your own Form 1 and having it approved before sending it off to Tromix Corp.

3) Get yourself a revocable living trust (Willmaker software is great) OR just go the Form 1 route through your LEO office. Plenty of information here:
http://www.hkweaponsystems.com/cgi-bin/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=10&t=000087

4) Fill out the Form one (get signatures if you don't go with the Trust) and mail it in with your $200 check. You will have to wait a couple months for the Form 1 to clear the BATFE.

5) Once your Form 1 comes back with the green stamp send your Saiga-12 to Tromix Corp with payment. This can take a few months as he is very busy and backlogged but he delivers perfection. IMO it is worth the long wait to get one from Tromix but there are many others that do conversions I am just not as familiar with. You might want to test the waters but you get what you pay for in most cases.


---At this time I am not sure where to get HALO rails for the Saiga-12. I noticed that Tony has really scaled back his line-up of guns he offers. The rails were custom done by a one-man-shop and I know that Tony cannot get them in stock so he no longer readily offers them on his conversions :(

****If you cannot find the aftermarket HALO rails anywhere I would just suggest saving some $$$ and converting your Saiga to the mini 8" version with folding stock. As you can see on the website you can get it under $2K after the extra $200 tax stamp. The mini 8" Tromix Saigas are neat (not totally practical for everyone but definitely look fun to shoot). I might just go ahead and have one of those made next... we shall see how the funds go. ;)

Hope this helps!

:)

[neviander]

Oh, good to know, that being said, that thing would be devastating in any application it might be put in. 20 rounds of semi auto buck shot :eek:...look out!!

[Javelin]

Oh, good to know, that being said, that thing would be devastating in any application it might be put in. 20 rounds of semi auto buck shot ...look out!!


If I could get a CLIII Dlrs license (my county won't sign anything to do with CLIII) I would have Tony convert my Saiga to fully auto and called it a day! But even with Semi it does appear to be a pretty heavy-duty firearm and probably one of the most fun high round count guns to shoot.

:)


PS: Don't get bit by the custom-Saiga bug. It is contagious. ;)

[Eric F]

$230 seems a bit high to me!:cuss:

[Correia]

It's all a matter of perspective, Eric. There are people posting in this thread who make that an hour. (I'm certainly not one of them!)

[Eric F]

There are people posting in this thread who make that an hour Hey I do to if a day is 10.3 hours of overtime! Where do I find a job paying that much.........well if I am a guy.

[Javelin]

Great a 20 round shotgun drum, anyone bother to price it out?

$230 seems a bit high to me!


It is high. I did not pay this much as I was on the pre-order list. Though when you price it out for around $200 (a small amount vs. the total amount of the gun) it doubles your capacity to that of a high volume shooter. That is very substantial in the venerable 12 gauge platform. Twice the trigger time before having to reload is quite a luxury.

But it is still pricey and definitely not a cheap little toy.

:)

[Crazy Fingers]

That has to be the ultimate home defense shotgun.

[rundm]

the md arms drum is 230 if you pre ordered on this last go around. they are out as of now and will not start the 3rd batch until after the 2nd batch ships somewheres around Jan 1st. I am on the 2nd list for one. the Tromix shotgun is not something that you can just get on the list for. right now the wait is 18 months. that is right, 18 months for one to get to you. you can go to Red Jacket Firearms in La. they have the same rep as Tromix but the wait is much less. I have one there that should be done in and out in 2 months. I am not waiting ont the tax stamp though. by the way, the Tromix is nowhere's near 1k with this one's set up. You might try a little closer to 15-1700 if I am not mistaken. His work does not come cheap on these things. I do not think that would include the price of that Halo rail that he has on there. You can get on the Chaos rail waiting list. they will be a lot lighter than the Halo. RG

[Rshooter]

I can see Obama in a tizzy right now. :cuss:

[Tacbandit]

Dude....That is one fine "Big Boy Toy"...Never considered one of those until now...Hmmmmm...Beautiful

[GregGry]

I have to see a video of that thing in action.

[chute2thrill]

for those about to rock....

[Mp7]

Yikes. Need it!

[SN13]

Yes, the MD20 is expensive. Pre-orders for first run were $165. Production runs are $230.

The Wraithmaker drum is $400. So the MD20 is a bargain when you consider that it works and is almost half price.

[The Janitor]

Woo hoo! Looks like you could make a living in the tree-trimming business with that. Or you know...Be the guy who turns bacon into bacon-bits.

[astrolite]

Tromix is backed up for months.

Luckily there is a friendly local man who does these conversions and I picked one up from him. He might even frequent these forums.

My conversion picture is attached,

Here is more of his work:

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=30943&st=0&p=276011&#entry276011

[VirgilCaine]

Congratulations, Javelin, that's a sweet lookin' piece.

[Javelin]

Congratulations, Javelin, that's a sweet lookin' piece.

Thanks!


And Astolite that is a sweet looking little shotty. Are you thinking of dropping a tax stamp and having that barrel chopped down?

:D

[rundm]

I am waiting on my drum and conversion to get done by Red Jacket. Tromix is backed up 18 months. Red Jacket is only and I say only 2 months.

[Javelin]

I am waiting on my drum and conversion to get done by Red Jacket. Tromix is backed up 18 months. Red Jacket is only and I say only 2 months.

I have heard he does a great conversion. My suggestion would be to drop that Form 1 now and make your gun a shorty by January....before the "one" gets into office.

:)

[rundm]

yeah, me and a buddy dropped off a couple of them a few weeks ago at his office in Louisiana. You should have seen all the goodies over there. He had a 410 that was cut down to about 12in barrel and was getting it ready along with all the other stuff. He also gives a 5 yr warranty with it when he converts them. RG