Which AR-15 would you choose - Noveske or POF


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cchurchi
October 4, 2008, 01:00 PM
For home defence, camping, target shooting and the occasional squirel...

I currently have 2 bushmaster AR-15's and 2 DPMS .308's that do alright, but I'm looking to by a really nice AR-15 before they are banned forever sometime next year.

Has anyone had any experience with the POF gas piston system? I owned a AR-180B that used a piston set up that I wasn't too impressed with because the rod on the AR-180B eventually began damaging the bolt carrier.

The Noveske looks pretty straight forward and has plenty of rails for mounting optics, bipods, and lights.

All opinions and other options are welcome. The budget is $2,000 to $3,000 for the rifle alone.

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hags
October 4, 2008, 02:07 PM
Neither, they're too expensive. The gas piston system is not needed and more complex than gas impingement. It offers no real advantage in "my" real world in my opinion.

taliv
October 4, 2008, 03:13 PM
do not get a piston. especially that piston. if you feel tempted to get a piston, call their service dept and try to buy some replacement parts. try to buy replacement parts for an earlier generation.

gvnwst
October 4, 2008, 03:25 PM
i have a POF rifle, and it is not nearly as bad as people say, actually, it is, IMO close to the best on the market. yes, their customer service is horrible, adn the arival date was pushed back about 3 times, but the rifle is amazing. everything is rock solid, and well made. the piston system makes for no bent tubes. that is one thing i hate about regular ARs, bending tubes.

hope this helps
:)

steven58
October 4, 2008, 03:58 PM
I have a 16" P-415 with the P9SX rails upper on an LMT SOPMOD lower and I LOVE it! I had a minor issue with it when it first arrived. Their customer service dept was able to resolve it to my satisfaction in less than 8 days turn around.

Currently it has 1,000 rounds of XM193, 500 Wolf polymer 55gr FMJ, and 2,000 rounds of .22 rimfire via a Ciener conversion kit.

Running an H buffer with a mix of P-mags, no lable Al mags and 15 year old range pick-ups from my Nat. Guard days I have Had only 3 malfunctions: First round ever fired (XM-193) failed to fully chamber the second round out of one of my noname mags, 2 wolf rounds were defective (dented case rims) and failed to chamber fully. All the rest worked fine.

Fantasic QC, fit and finish was perfect. I like the nitrided bbl. Runs clean, low recoil. 5 shot groups range from 2-4" with 193s to sub 1" with 77 grain match ammo using a TA-33R. I have tried the ranging reticule out to 600 yds and it works. Granted, you get patterns not groups but 95% of the holes were in the torso of a life size target.

Would it be my choice for SHTF? no, buy a Colt 6920 so you can scavange parts from anywhere. Does the AR system need a piston? No, it already has one in the bolt. I just wanted a new toy. Do I run it dry? NO, 20-50 Mobil 1 V Twin on all moving parts.
YMMV.

gvnwst
October 4, 2008, 04:26 PM
to add to my earlier post, here are some of the things the POF can do:

4,000 round, no cleaningy, dry run, no failures.

easiest cleaning gun i have, bolt actions included.

1/2" 100yd accuracy.

1.5 MOA accuracy with 55gr wolf junk,

this is a small list of what my POF has done. everyone thought i was crazy to buy a $2,000 AR, but i am glad i did. :)


P.S. i have the 18" SPR.

Rubber_Duck
October 4, 2008, 09:28 PM
For home defence, camping, target shooting and the occasional squirel...

For these purposes, save your money and get a CMMG or just get a different style of upper. If you want to go all out I would rather have the Colt 6920, and between the two in the OP the Noveske.''

Just my $.02.

cchurchi
October 4, 2008, 10:24 PM
Well, I've spent the evening reading up on these 2 rifles and it looks like I've decided to get a Noveske.

However, I can't seem to find any dealers that have one in stock. Looking for the 14.5 inch with a pined flash suppressor....

Safety First
October 4, 2008, 10:39 PM
However, I can't seem to find any dealers that have one in stock. Looking for the 14.5 inch with a pined flash suppressor....

Have you tried Ranier arms or gone directly to noveske ? I am on the fence to order a Noveske Basic thru my local dealer....good luck....

12131
October 4, 2008, 11:20 PM
Either one is fine, but between the two asked in the OP, I'd take the Noveske first. Nothing wrong with the POF. The Noveske just feels a little more balanced in my hands. Yes, I have both.

rangerruck
October 5, 2008, 01:51 AM
bushy/dpms/remmy, all owned by cerberus; I think they are all about to do piston drives, especially bushy. I think I would wait on that, if not then the Larue, or the POF.

taliv
October 5, 2008, 09:40 AM
doesn't bushy already oem the pof?

RockyMtnTactical
October 5, 2008, 12:32 PM
Noveske

sundance43.5
October 5, 2008, 02:35 PM
LWRC Why would you spend MORE money on a POF when you could have a better rifle in the LWRC, with good customer service to boot. If for some reason you would not get the LWRC, then I would get the Noveske, as they make the finest DI guns available.

rob_s
October 5, 2008, 09:54 PM
Noveske N4, all day long and twice on Sundays.

No point in a piston-operated non-SBR in semi-auto.

Now if you tell me you want a suppressed 10" upper for you registered machine gun, we might have a different topic. Might.

If you just have to have a piston, wait for the Masada. That's what I've decided to do. I prefer the other advantages of the Masada over just having a rifle that's otherwise identical to my existing DI guns.

cchurchi
October 5, 2008, 10:09 PM
For me, customer service is a big part of a purchase this big and POF's sounds a little spotty, at least according to some interweb jockies. I checked out the LWRC and it looks like a fine rifle. They are on a 3.5 month back order however. There are some up for sale on gunbroker though.

I am still leaning towards the Noveske because I've never had any issues with DI. I need to learn more about the differences between the Afghan 5.56mm Rifle for $2,200 and the N4 Light Carbine, Low Profile for $1,900, assuming the Afghan is for sale anywhere.

I really appreciate the opinions and information. My main problem is that I am getting very impatient and I want to pull the trigger on a purchase ASAP.

gvnwst
October 5, 2008, 10:14 PM
yeah, POF's service is horrible, but even if you overlook the GP system, it is IMO a better rifle than the Noveske... Comes with match barrel, top quality trigger, the predator rail system (almost as good as the LMT monolithic rails) and, with teh higher end models, a top quality stock. and it does this while costing about $200 less than the Noveske. (the SPR, top model, costs $2,000, the Noveske i looked at costed $2,200)

:)

cchurchi
October 5, 2008, 10:15 PM
I was going to purchase the Masada but I fear that they are just going to push back the release date even further, as in after HE WHO SHALL NOT BE NAMED bans everything.

I also will get a 10.5 inch barrel for SBR purposes. My current Bushmaster SBR has had at least 7K rounds through it with out a hickup using direct impingement.....

A suppressor though would be a different story, and I could always buy a piston upper if I decide to go that route.

PPGMD
October 5, 2008, 11:43 PM
I have a POF SBR, and I say go with the Noveske N4 Light 16"

sarduy
October 6, 2008, 01:25 AM
For home defence, camping, target shooting and the occasional squirel...

i went this way

http://inlinethumb50.webshots.com/41265/2181936810095461090S500x500Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2181936810095461090TCYrJj)

CMMG M4

rob_s
October 6, 2008, 04:33 AM
yeah, POF's service is horrible, but even if you overlook the GP system, it is IMO a better rifle than the Noveske... Comes with match barrel, top quality trigger, the predator rail system (almost as good as the LMT monolithic rails) and, with teh higher end models, a top quality stock. and it does this while costing about $200 less than the Noveske. (the SPR, top model, costs $2,000, the Noveske i looked at costed $2,200)
Huh? You quote a $2200 Noveske price, and then say that the POF barrel is better? Huh?

Noveske's barrels are second to none. If you're quoting a price of $2200 then you're talking about one of his stainless barrel'd rifles, and you won't find a better barrel.

You're comparing that to a 4150 POF barrel? Really?

Even if you drop "down" to the N4 Recced (http://noveskerifleworks.com/cgi-bin/imcart/display.cgi?item_id=r-lrlp-556&cat=47&page=1&search=&since=&status=) at just under $2k, you're still getting a barrel that is head and shoulders above just about anything else out there in 4150. AND you get $250+ worth of BUIS with the purchase.

gvnwst
October 6, 2008, 12:24 PM
You're comparing that to a 4150 POF barrel? Really?


POF uses rock creek barrel blanks. Rock creek makes extremely good barrels, some of the best IMO. i have seen guns with their barrels make .110" groups at 150yd.
:)

cchurchi
October 6, 2008, 02:50 PM
Thanks for all the advice and opinions. I just ordered the 10.5" CQB this morning. I switched the Vltor stock for a Magpul CTR though as I already have one on my .308 AP4, and am very happy with it.

Now I have to decide on a regular upper. Still deciding between the 14.5" N4 light and the 14.5" Afgan which is slightly heaver then the N4 light.

It's 6 weeks out, which is OK because it will give the NFA paperwork a headstart.

Thanks again, this is why I come to THR!

AlexSpartan
October 7, 2008, 08:43 PM
I'm going to disagree with most people here. I think a piston upper for an ar-15 would be a great idea, instead of going with the Masada, XCR, or FN-SCAR or any of the newest rifles of that kind, because of the wide range of spare parts and whatnot available for the AR-15 platform. I don't know how interchangeable some parts will be with the XCRs or Masadas, but I'm willing to bet it's very limited.

This is especially important in the future political climates that are sure to follow this upcoming election. When things finally start to be banned it'll start by everything being taxed and eventually banned, like ammo and spare parts. I'd be pretty upset if something in my brand new Masada or FN-SCAR broke, and parts were not available, turning it into an expensive paper-weight.

Or, hold out and get a Masada or XCR, but be sure to get spare parts immediately, maybe two sets, just to be safe.

Javelin
November 1, 2008, 11:48 PM
Good choice with Noveske. Hands down one of the best firearms in the world.

How much ballistics are you sacrificing going with a 10.5" Noveske barrel vs. a 16"? I have heard it is quite substantial but cannot find the charts that someone posted.

cchurchi
December 15, 2008, 07:53 PM
It's on it's way, so it took a little under 2 months. Can't wait to shoot it!

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
December 15, 2008, 07:56 PM
The POF is not REALLY an AR15 - it's a different rifle. So that means Noveske! :)

Oops, nevermind; congrats, you're gonna love it!

cchurchi
December 15, 2008, 08:03 PM
Yep... Still have to jump the the ATF hoops but at least the ball is now rolling. I also have a N4 upper that is on order, and I have no idea when that will ship and neither does Noveske. But the reciever is the important part, I can wait a while longer for the upper...

possum
December 15, 2008, 08:17 PM
i would buy an slr grail if i had the money.

agtman
December 15, 2008, 08:23 PM
Several years ago, I wanted to put together a solid general purpose carbine.

So for that build I went with Noveske's 16.1" RECON upper, 1/7 twist SS barrel, 5.56mm MOD O chamber, LaRue rails, and other goodies. Problem is, ... this Noveske shoots so good I'm now in the process of SPR-ing it - well, sort of - with Leupold 3.5-10x, Geissle DMS trigger, bipod and Vltor EMOD stock.

Here's what the Noveske looked like set up as a GPC (well-worth the money, in my opinion):

Before a training class ...
http://i372.photobucket.com/albums/oo166/agtman/nov2.jpg

During class ...
http://i372.photobucket.com/albums/oo166/agtman/nov1.jpg

FWIW, I've found that in the long run it pays to avoid going "cheap" on your carbine (or component parts) and related gear.

:cool:

H2O MAN
December 15, 2008, 08:49 PM
Gen III POF lower and a 16" NOVESKE N4 Light Recce Low-Profile Mid-Length Upper :evil:

http://www.athenswater.com/images/Noveske-POF-3.jpg

http://www.athenswater.com/images/Noveske-POF-4.jpg

agtman
December 15, 2008, 09:00 PM
Nice set up, H2O. :D

Javelin
December 15, 2008, 09:05 PM
That is a nice looking rifle there!!!

You just cannot beat a Noveske firearm. Maybe its the M249 machine gun double chrome lined barrels, polygonal rifling that gives you an extra 20-40fps, smooth running dependable actions, Noveske Switchblock availability, world-class fit and finish (you can't get that with a GI production gun), or maybe its just because its the most accurate M4/AR platform that you can own.

Or maybe its just all of that in one package. Of course the price tag is there but you get what you pay for.

:)

cchurchi
December 15, 2008, 09:05 PM
Amazing looking rifles!

Shooter88
December 15, 2008, 09:24 PM
agtman:

I have a carbine set up almost exactly like that, except I'm running a TA31 ACOG instead of the Aimpoint/magnifier setup. The Noveske Recon has got to be the best GP carbine barrel on the market. Nothing like having a carbine barely 3 inches longer than a standard M4, but every bit as accurate as a designated marksman rifle, eh?

agtman
January 18, 2009, 07:24 PM
" ... every bit as accurate as a designated marksman rifle, eh?"

Shooter88:

Got back late on this one, but you're right about the RECON's accuracy.

What was intended as a 16" GPC is easily treading into 18" SPR territory - and that was before I added a Geiselle SSA trigger. ;) (SSA was available; DMS wasn't).

What it probably needs now is something along the lines of a Leupy 3.5-10x and maybe the Vltor EMOD I just received for another build.

Not sure if a bipod would make it too heavy, but maybe the extra weight doesn't matter if it's role is going to shift from a super-accurate GPC to a dedicated SPR/coyote slayer. :D

:cool:

H2O MAN
January 18, 2009, 07:28 PM
In the AR world, NOVESKE uppers are tits & beer.

Rob_S, what do you think of the Noveske Switchblock?
What is it's practical application?

Thanks.

rob_s
January 18, 2009, 08:19 PM
Rob_S, what do you think of the Noveske Switchblock?
What is it's practical application?
Haven't seen one in person, but I like the concept. It has three settings; suppressed, unsuppressed, and off. The idea being to reduce the amount of gas in the system when using a can (which normally increases backpressure and therefore puts more gas back into the system) or shut the gas off completely to try and be more quiet or retain the empty case.

H2O MAN
January 18, 2009, 08:44 PM
Quote:
Rob_S, what do you think of the Noveske Switchblock?
What is it's practical application?

rob_s
Haven't seen one in person, but I like the concept. It has three settings; suppressed, unsuppressed, and off. The idea being to reduce the amount of gas in the system when using a can (which normally increases backpressure and therefore puts more gas back into the system) or shut the gas off completely to try and be more quiet or retain the empty case.

Do you have plans to evaluate one in the future?

rob_s
January 18, 2009, 08:58 PM
The only way to get one, AFAIK, is installed on a barrel, and the N4 barrels have to be installed in an upper.

One thing I'd like to do is some accuracy/velocity testing with it.

I'll have to talk to John about possibly getting my hands on one of his uppers with a switchblock but I have quite a few other projects on hand right now.

H2O MAN
January 18, 2009, 09:00 PM
Yeah, there is no retro fit available, you must buy a new upper if you want the Switchblock...

Erik
January 18, 2009, 10:02 PM
"Which AR-15 would you choose - Noveske or POF?"

Noveske.

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