Problem with M1A and PTR91 Food! *German DAG 7.62x51mm*


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paratroop23
October 4, 2008, 07:33 PM
I just bought a case of German DAG 93 7.62x51mm. This are the thin steel jacketed rds that I had read about on another forum. I've heard nothing but good things about this ammo and thought I had a steal at $500 per 1k. BUT I should have examined the unopened case more closely. The 5 battlepacks were inside a taped cardboard box. I hightailed it home to put it in the stash. The first thing i noticed upon opening the box was the smell of mildew. I inspected to ensure that the plastic was still intact on each of the BattlePacks and was pleased to see that they were. But something told me to inspect a little further. I opened one. The boxes all looked undisturbed. I opened one of the boxes to find that one 1 in 4 of the rounds was corroded, so I opened another to find the same thing! ***!! Obviously somewhere down the line someone didn't store this ammo correctly. The rounds aren't completely corroded but they're some obvious suspect rds.

Guys should I keep and fire them? Or should I drive the 45 mins back to the gun show tomorrow to demand my money back?

Thanks

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TexasRifleman
October 4, 2008, 07:35 PM
steal at $500 per 1k.

You mean someone stole from you right?

You can buy brand new recent manufactured Lithuanian in reloadable brass for that price.
Ammoman has some German MEN in stock now for that price, shipped to your door. (loose pack, not battlepacks)

I'd take it back and keep shopping if it were me.

SlamFire1
October 4, 2008, 07:43 PM
I am not a fan of steel cased ammo, but if it was a bargin and is in good condition, I have used it.

Considering your cases are corroded, it is possible that water had gotten into the cases and caused problems with primer holes; who knows what. Which may mean more duds than one in four.

Take it back. $500.00 is a lot of money for bad ammo.

paratroop23
October 4, 2008, 07:52 PM
TexasRifleman

I have a case of the GGG, but my PTR91 doesn't like it.

The MEN from Ammoman is $518 per case and it's Berdan primed also. So in my eyes purchasing the DAG at $500 no tax/no wait wasn't a bad deal. Plus I would rather have battle packs for storage. Obviously it wasn't a good choice in hindsight, but at the time it made perfect since. Good quality German ammo (so I thought) at my fingertips, in a packed venue on the first day of a two day show. I grabbed a case and didn't look back the cheapest I've seen DAG lately is $490 before shipping.

TexasRifleman
October 4, 2008, 07:57 PM
I have a case of the GGG, but my PTR91 doesn't like it.

Not to hijack the thread but, really? Mine eats the stuff like there's no tomorrow. What is yours doing?

paratroop23
October 4, 2008, 08:42 PM
No worries TX

MY PTR eats it just fine! It just doesn't group well at all with the GGG. I had several targets set up at 31m to replicate 200m so I could zero. I fired nice tight groups with all of 7.62x51mm and .308 rds I had (Igman, Privi, South African, Federal GMM, even Barnual). The GGG was all over the place. I would fire a 3 round mag of GGG in a clean target(M16A2 Target Zero Target), drop the magazine, insert a new magazine with 3 rounds of any of the other rounds and fire at another target. The GGG grouping was consistently horrible! Each of the other brands fired nice and tight groups regardless of the POI which might have been a little different depending on which brand I fired. I had my buddy try during the same range session and he had the exact same results.

Z-Michigan
October 4, 2008, 10:21 PM
I'd try to take that ammo back.

My PTR is quite happy with Brown Bear (made by Barnaul if I understand right) and it costs about $6.50/20 at AIM Surplus right now. Hard to beat that deal.

I'd get some nicer brass cased stuff for the M1A.

TexasRifleman
October 4, 2008, 11:30 PM
The GGG grouping was consistently horrible!

Wow, that is so strange. Mine shoots the GGG about as good as anything I've tried.

Odd. Wonder what in the world is up with that.

paratroop23
October 4, 2008, 11:52 PM
I'm not to only one. I've seen others on different forums that have had the same problems.

How long have you had your PTR? Was yours made by JLD? Which model is it?

I have the KPF version 16 inch bbl with the collapsable stock. Made by JLD.

I bought the DAG because I figured the PTR would like it, plus I dont feel too bad about the brass being beat up since the DAG is berdan primed (non-reloadable)

TexasRifleman
October 4, 2008, 11:54 PM
Mine is a KF model, 16" bbl, but I got it after PTR bought JLD. Wonder if something changed?

anymanusa
October 5, 2008, 02:32 AM
$500/1000 is a steal? Since when? I get brand new Wolf and Barnual for less than that. Shop around a little dude.

Ammoman, Aimsurplus, Wideners, etc.

paratroop23
October 5, 2008, 03:17 PM
Wolf and Barnual are not in the same league as German DAG 7.62x51mm. German surplus is regarded as some of the best if not the best surplus period. I just got screwed by getting a sub-par batch. The price for good American made .308 or LC 7.62 (if you can find it.) is well over .65 per round. German made is on par with American made 7.62x51mm. So at .50 per rd out the door, no tax, no wait, for what was thought to be decent stuff. It was a good deal in my eyes. AMMOMAN has German MEN 7.62 packed loose for .52 per rd, and Wideners was selling German DAG for .49 per before tax.

Even American Eagle is costing .75 per rd online before shipping!!

Wolf and barnual are the bottom of the barrel man. I do have a half a case of Barnual for my PTR, but I wouldn't feed it to my M1A.

I knew the current prices when I made my purchase. My question to the masses was whether or not to return it due to 20% of the first 60 rds of one of the battlepacks have some corrosion.

USSR
October 5, 2008, 04:59 PM
Somebody needs to learn how to reload. I'm currently assembling ammo using milsurp components (except for the primer) for less than $.15 per round (not counting the case, of which LC M80 brass can be bought for $.10 each).

Don

TexasRifleman
October 5, 2008, 05:03 PM
Somebody needs to learn how to reload.

Reloading is great, I reload but in this climate (politically) many of us want more than just the ability to reload. We want super long term storage life.

The battlepack type of packaging, sealed primer pockets, etc make the surplus ammo a good choice for that kind of thing.

I can't blame anyone for buying it when they run across it.

paratroop23
October 5, 2008, 10:22 PM
But he's right TX!! I do need to learn to reload! I'm saving all of my brass in preparation!

marktx
October 5, 2008, 10:26 PM
.......The boxes all looked undisturbed. I opened one of the boxes to find that one 1 in 4 of the rounds was corroded, so I opened another to find the same thing! ***!! Obviously somewhere down the line someone didn't store this ammo correctly. The rounds aren't completely corroded but they're some obvious suspect rds.

Guys should I keep and fire them? .......

I just had the exact same experience, the corrosion on mine is relatively minor but it does seem odd. Shot some of it today and didn't have any problems, accuracy was great. Keep the ammo and shoot it, you got a decent deal and returning it will just cost you more and you won't have the ammo.

Mine is also '93 and lot number on the box is DAG93G0368

For what it's worth it is berdan primed, don't bother picking up the cases.

paratroop23
October 5, 2008, 10:42 PM
Marktx

I did decide to keep them! I've heard too many great things about these round. Are you discarding the corroded ones or firing those too?

I was planing on keeping the fired cases. It's still brass, I can still make a little money back. I'll keep them separate from the boxer primed cases I've been saving *for whenever I take the time to learn and the money to invest in reloading*

Mine are lot DAG93A0306.

marktx
October 5, 2008, 10:52 PM
Shot 'em and didn't think twice about it... My PTR chucks empties pretty far so I only looked for a couple of them to see what the primer type was. The corrosion on mine seemed to me mostly a cosmetic issue, it wasn't pitted badly or anything. Only time I have tossed out a live round is with some ancient 7.65 Argentine which was badly corroded around the primer.

paratroop23
October 5, 2008, 11:01 PM
Cool, I feel a lot better!

I'll post a range report next chance I get to the range.

taprackbang
October 5, 2008, 11:05 PM
My PTR LOVES German DAG 93. 1/4 to 1/2 MOA... No lie, pictures to prove if you'd like.

marktx
October 5, 2008, 11:11 PM
I was planing on keeping the fired cases. It's still brass, I can still make a little money back......

Do you sell them to a metal recycler or ??? I know a few folks do reload berdan primed cases but it sounds like a lot more work and I couldn't imagine anyone purposely buying fired berdan cases to reload. I know somebody is collecting brass at my local outdoor range because the only thing left on the ground is steel cased that is slowly rusting away. They even go the the bother of collecting .22 shells which seems like a lot of work. What is brass/copper scrap going for?

paratroop23
October 6, 2008, 09:09 PM
That's another reason why I picked it up, the DAG was meant to be fired by the G3! I'm hoping my PTR loves it as much as yours Taprackbang.

TX,
I have no idea what I would get for my spent Berdan primed brass, but I'm sure I'll get more than I would by leaving it on the range.

polik6887
October 17, 2008, 01:28 PM
where can I find some DAG?

paratroop23
October 17, 2008, 09:35 PM
Here you go

www.dansammo.com/ammo.asp

polik6887
November 10, 2008, 11:04 PM
they are sold out. anywhere else?

paratroop23
May 31, 2009, 12:06 PM
Wideners!

www.wideners.com/itemdetail.cfm?item_id=8627&dir=18|830|848

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