Encore Pro Hunter Question


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bfhcards
October 4, 2008, 11:29 PM
I have a .50 cal Thompson Encore Pro Hunter. I have taken it to the range a few times and I am having some difficulty seating my second shot.

I am using 2 Triple 7 pellets ,50 grain each. I am also using Thompson 250grain 50 Cal Sabots.

I load the pellets and the sabot for the first shot and the ramrod goes all the way down and everything is seating.

The second shot I load the same way but the ramrod will not move the last inch. So it seems like the sabot is about an inch above the powder. The second shot is still accurate.

The only way I can get a second shot to seat is by pulling the breech plug and running some wet patches down the barrel and cleaning everything.

Needless to say I did not think I would have to clean the barrel after every shot.

I also tried some of the 50 grain Shockley sticks but those would not seat at all and remained about an inch above the breech even after it had been fully cleaned. They are square where as the Triple 7's are round.

Has anyone had this issue?

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Geno
October 4, 2008, 11:39 PM
I have the exact same problem. I gave up on sabot and shoot lead instead, with Bore Butter. It works great.

:)

Doc2005

frontiergander
October 4, 2008, 11:45 PM
Its the Crud ring that T7 causes. Its sugar based and if you ask the british of the 1770's what sugar does when it gets hot, they'd be tell ya that it gums up your cannons and they dont work to good.

Try some pyrodex RS or Select.

Geno
October 4, 2008, 11:49 PM
I use the Hodgdon Triple Se7en pellets. Is that sugar-based also? I am new to BP.

Thanks,

Doc2005

arcticap
October 5, 2008, 12:03 AM
I responded to a similar question on our sister site thefiringline that may be helpful:

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=313255

The Shockley Sticks reportedly have problems with performance & consistent ignition and should probably be avoided. They may be able to be crushed and ground up and used that way with some experimentation. The APP loose fffg shoots pretty good though.
The new Blackhorn 209 powder is the cleanest, among the most accurate and requires the least amount of swabbing. One poster reported being able to shoot 20 sabot shots without swabbing, and then 20 more. While it's a very fluffy powder by volume, it's also the most expensive at $25 - $30 for 10 ounces.

http://www.blackhorn209.com/index.html

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=384702

Also there are some smaller diameter as well as easier loading ribbed, 3 petal and Super Glide sabots made by these 2 sabot manufacturers which can be ordered directly from each:

http://www.mmpsabots.com/

http://www.harvesterbullets.com/sabots.htm

Wildfire
October 5, 2008, 01:33 AM
Hey There;
I shoot an Encore, My son also. Both .50 cals.
This may sound crazy to you but, I have tested Hundreds of loads and bullets. Mine will now shoot 1/2" center to center groups at 100 yards.
Avoid any of the "Easy Load Sabots".... They load nice and are not accurate.

By accurate I mean under 1" at 100 yards.

The T/C shock waves are very accurate bullets and are the Exact same bullet as the Hornady SST/ML.... All are made by Hornady....
These are accurate , But , I have found that in deer I did not get expansion.
I want Expansion and lots of it. Some may not like this Copper Vs lead thing , But the Barnes Expander MZ all copper bullet is also extremely accurate. Way under that 1".. I have tested the accuracy of these in two different Encores. Both toss about the same groups.

The Barnes MZ bullets expand 100% and loose Zero weight... I have taken enough deer with these now to have proven that bullet.
My Encore decided it liked the 250s better then the 300s, My sons rilfe shoots the 300s better then the 250s. You will know when you hit that deer.
These things let out a very loud smack on impact.
Here is my load.
80 grains of Pyrodex "P". Remington 209 Black powder primers, ( yes the primer makes a big difference)
The 250 grain Barnes MZ....

These do not always exit. The 300s do. But I have not had to track a deer yet. They pretty much so drop right there.

That 777 will leave a crud ring in your barrel and I have found the accuracy is not consistant at all. Pellets are not consistant any way. Any cronograph
will prove that. Convieniant Yes, But not accurate. Some may argue with that and I'm OK with that. As I said I have test hunders of loads and made my desission from the results.
I am very serious about my accuracy. 80 grains of "P" will put down any white tail on this planet. going hotter yeilded little in velocity and widened the groups.
I do swab between shots with the pre lubed patches. If you fire your gun with out having that bullet fully seated you will buldge that barrel or worse.

Hope this helps........

Coltdriver
October 5, 2008, 09:50 AM
I shoot the .50 caliber 295 grain aerotip powerbelts from my Encore using 777.

I swab the barrel with bore butter followed by a dry patch to get started.

After each shot I swab the barrel with a patch with bore butter on it wrapped around a wire brush.

At the end of the day a couple of more passes with a patch and it is clean. If you always shoot this way and never clean the barrel with a petroleum based solvent it just gets easier and easier.

But it is an inconvenient mess at the range.

By following this regimen I never have a problem seating the bullet. It is supposed to be very dangerous to leave an air gap. I think they overbuild the barrels in anticipation of this as I have never heard of an Encore magnum barrel blowing up.

bfhcards
October 5, 2008, 10:53 AM
Thanks for the tips. I am new to black powder and this is my first muzzle loader. I think I will first try some pyrodex pellets. I have had a few people at the range tell me bore butter is not the best for accuracy but it sounds like a few people here have had great success with it.

I am really looking forward to hunting blackpowder this season and I bought the rifle to extend my season here in MD.

I am using the super glide TC sabots. I think I need to play around and try some other slugs and as I mentioned above some different powder.

Thanks for all the help, its the exact reason why I love these forums.

K.A.T.
October 5, 2008, 11:16 AM
Drop the 777 pellets and use the Pyrodex pellets, they are easier to ignite and they don't leave as much of a crude ring. Try the Powerbelt bullets, I have one gun that likes the Platnum 300 gr. bullet. I have another gun that likes the 348 gr. bullet. They are very accurate and very easy to load. I have shot 3 holes touching at 100 yds.


I use the Pryodex pellets and the Powerbelts to solve the same problem you have right now. Your are on the same road that I've already traveled.

bfhcards
October 5, 2008, 11:31 AM
K.A.T.

I am going to make a pilgrimage up to Cabelas and purchase exactly what you are talking about and give it a try. Hopefully I will be able to get up there before the season gets full swing down here in MD.

bfhcards
October 12, 2008, 09:16 PM
Just an update. I tried some pyrodex this weekend and I am still having the same issue seating the second shot. I spoke to some people at the range also shooting Encore Pro Hunters and they both said they swab after each shot. Seems like a pain. I am going to call Thompson and see what they say.

frontiergander
October 12, 2008, 09:43 PM
it does suck having to swab through that crud. My omega i had did the same thing but i was able to get a handful of loads down before it got to bad. I personally feel that its a breech plug design flaw as i had never had it with any of the cva inlines ive owned.

alsaqr
October 13, 2008, 01:50 PM
My Encore makes sub 1" three shot groups at 100 yards with 777. In order to get this fine accuracy it is necessary to thoroughly swab the bore after every shot.

Load:
100 grains of 777
Winchester 209 shotgun primer
250 grain SST in the tight fitting black sabot

Wildfire
October 13, 2008, 11:14 PM
Hey There;
Thompson will tell you to swab after each shot. The Encore is not the problem...
They are second to none. Swab and the problem will go away.

earlthegoat2
October 16, 2008, 11:18 PM
just run a spit patch down the barrel and up a few times to get the gunk and go at it again.

should be able to hold up to 10 or more shots this way

alsaqr
October 17, 2008, 09:28 AM
Have tried the 250 grain SST/Shockwave in most of the sabots out there. The best shooting sabot i have found is the very tight fitting black ones and the tight fitting red ones. Yes, they load very hard. With my Encore the barrel has to be thoroughly swabbed after every shot to get a good group with granular 777: Otherwise, the second shot will be 6-8" from the point of aim on the target.

The Hornady Easy Load sabots load much easier but are not nearly as accurate as the tight fitting black ones. The Super Glides are all over the place with my gun.

Yep, i will stick with the hard to load sabots as they are very accurate and i can get the job done with a golf ball on the end of the remrod. If you wet the sabot with spit it loads much easier.

bfhcards
October 17, 2008, 09:28 PM
Thanks all. I will try all the above suggestions

Wildfire
October 18, 2008, 01:29 AM
Hey There;
It has been said by another here now. In my post number 6 I gave you some good info on the bullets and powders.
While some like the 777 , I do not. It stinks worse then BP.
Anyway . By swabing I can get 1/2" groups at the 100 yard mark. No secret here . The Encores have tight barrels and want to be clean to shoot.
If you have a good scope and can do your part the loading info I gave should also do well in your gun as it has in every Encore we worked on.

I have not told you any of this because I shoot to sight in once in a while.
I have fired over 700 rounds testing bullets , powder, and primers for accuracy. The Sabots matter a lot. The guy was dead on about the tight fitting ones. The easy loaders don't group, Period.........
I wore out firing pins doing it. That was just the number of test loads for the Encores. Others were tested also... I use the Pyrodex "P" because of the pressure curve.. check me out on this and do some research and you will see why. The others have an inconsistant pressure curve and accuracy can not be held... All guns are different and some may tolerate the 777. Thats fine..
I have not found that ever... But to each his own.
Good luck.

emegahunter
November 1, 2008, 09:10 PM
So far I have seen the same thing from my pro hutner. I have tried pyrodex pellets and american pioneer powder sticks with the TC shockwave 250 grain bullet and the yellow two petal sabats. The gun shoots about a 6 inch group at 100 yards with 150 grain charges. That needless to say id=s not good enough. With my knight and hornady 240 grain bullets I could get 2 inch groups at 100 with 150 grains of pyrodex pellets. I have not found a good set up yet for the Pro hunter. I do have a couple of areas I hunt where I cann shoot in exxess of 150 yards and would like to get it to be accurate at those ranges. I paid a lot for this gun and so far can shoot better with my TC Hawken and open sights. Any ideas for any shooting at those ranges?

Dit
December 16, 2008, 06:36 PM
Hi
I don't know about anybody else but my encore won't shoot the pellets. Try going to loose powder and see if you get better results.

33rowdy
December 17, 2008, 08:00 PM
Emegahunter....Use the yellow four petal sabots. Their is a difference.

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