APS was apparently hijacked


PDA






freedom lover
October 5, 2008, 01:46 PM
Please repost this. Let everyone know.

According to Oleg APS was hijacked by Derek.

http://olegvolk.livejournal.com/477181.html

It's been a long day. Rather than recount what I already posted in other venues, I'll link to a very concise and clear write-up by my friend Peter. In sum: not content with stealing The High Road, Derek Zeanah is trying to hold my other forum (in which he had zero involvement other than hosting) Armed Polite Society as a hostage to get me to compromise with him on THR.

I haven't been able to get on because of this:
http://www.armedpolitesociety.com/
It's been saying that since this morning. APS was stolen! :fire:

So that everyone doesn't have to read through all the BS to get to the end, Oleg let us at Staff know today (Oct. 8) that Derek made the APS database available to him.

If you enjoyed reading about "APS was apparently hijacked" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
Nate C.
October 5, 2008, 02:06 PM
What do you folks think about all this mess?

ExpatGator
October 5, 2008, 02:11 PM
I will not boycott a site of which I am a founding member.

I will, however, continue to speak out against this usurpation by Derek and his sycophants until they relinquish what is not theirs or I am banned, which is suppose will be any minute as this cabal cannot stand the LIGHT OF TRUTH.

Nate C.
October 5, 2008, 02:13 PM
Well for the benefit of us heathens in the audience who are neither founding members nor part of a cabal, what's the scoop?

ExpatGator
October 5, 2008, 02:14 PM
Do a search on google for "thehighroad + oleg volk + hijack"

freedom lover
October 5, 2008, 02:17 PM
http://bayourenaissanceman.blogspot.com/2008/10/another-update-on-high-road.html

That details the APS hijacking.

This is about the THR hijacking:

http://bayourenaissanceman.blogspot.com/2008/09/controversy-at-high-road.html

ExpatGator
October 5, 2008, 02:29 PM
No. Not too cool, at all.

Hey you silent HighRoaders: Are you going to stand by quietly and let this happen? Speak out against this. Start a thread against it. When you are banned, let someone else start a thread. Keep it going and pass on the tactic in your initial thread. Jam it up so noone can claim to be unaware of what is going on.

jrfoxx
October 5, 2008, 02:29 PM
Before anyone gets too excited. APS moved servers yesterday (sat. oct 4th). It was up most of yesterday, and I was personally on it yesterday. Note that all the links posted above by people are PRIOR to yesterday and the move to a new server controlled by Oleg.

So, there a VERY good chance that the current maintenance message is due to yesterdays move, and that alone. Barring new info from Oleg himself, dated AFTER yesterdays move, I wouldn't go freaking out about anything. The entire site was moved, up, and safe under Oleg's control yesterday. Odds are that they had some bug from the move they are taking care of, and thats all there is too it.

Just my opinion and advice.

TexasRifleman
October 5, 2008, 02:30 PM
This was over and done yesterday, it's just down for some maintenance today.

APS has moved to a new server.

Calm down :)

Pure Kustom
October 5, 2008, 02:32 PM
and THR?

ExpatGator
October 5, 2008, 02:33 PM
I stand by my advice and bid you fellow HighRoaders a fond adios. For Now.

TexasRifleman
October 5, 2008, 02:36 PM
Edit: in any case, why would he give APS back?

The APS name is registered to Oleg. The THR name is registered to Derek.

Oleg and Derek disagree about THR, that will work out eventually one way or the other. Maybe it will end up in court, hopefully not. But that's not worth going on about for now really.


APS was totally different. Oleg owns it, and it's now been moved to a new server.

Geno
October 5, 2008, 02:38 PM
These threads are reaaaally getting old. I understand, and I respect, that both sides hold their views passionately. However, these matters are best handled in private, by impartial parties. No one is doing anyone any good service by public bashing. It violates our very principles of no personal attacks on THR, and takes us very low road.

Doc2005

TexasRifleman
October 5, 2008, 02:41 PM
Derek stole the HighRoad. Any sane man can see that.

Maybe, maybe not. His name is on the domain name registration. That means that it will have to go to court if they can't come to an agreement.

What we believe isn't always the same as what the law will believe.

That's why we should stay out of it for now. No good will come of this kind of thread.

ExpatGator
October 5, 2008, 02:44 PM
Much good will come of this thread if folks do as proposed. Just cruising along and posting as if nothing has happened is unacceptable. All that is necessary for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing.

TexasRifleman
October 5, 2008, 02:47 PM
All that is necessary for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing.

Oh, not talking about it in a thread doesn't mean nothing is being done :)

But the endless back and forth bickering won't help. There are plenty of things that can be done privately.

freedom lover
October 5, 2008, 02:55 PM
We should make a list of those in his evil cabal.

freedom lover
October 5, 2008, 03:04 PM
Maybe Art Eatman should be on the list.

He shut down my thread and called me a child!! :fire::fire::fire::fire:

<+++++++++++++>

Eric F
October 5, 2008, 03:06 PM
News of this is, or should be common knowledge now, and just because all other threads discussing this end up locked, no offense but:
For your thread locking needs:

freedom lover
October 5, 2008, 03:06 PM
Please help provide for Oleg's defense.

http://olegvolk.livejournal.com/474369.html

springmom
October 5, 2008, 03:06 PM
It makes perfect sense that those who are just now reading about this have strong feelings. THR has been an island of sanity in a internet world of places not so sane. It fosters responsible firearms ownership and is a great place for newcomers to learn about firearms.

In that light, how does it help new people who come here to learn, and read all about your feelings about this? Do they benefit? Does your posting further the eventual resolution of this conflict?

NO.

Just stop. Go read about it elsewhere. God knows it's all over the internet by now. Boycott if you think you need to. But stop bellyaching about it here, because you are accomplishing nothing. Zero. Zip. Nada. Zilch. You're not helping Oleg. You're not helping THR. You're not helping the newbies who came here to read about firearms, not bickering between two people that they don't even know. Enough, already.

Springmom

freedom lover
October 5, 2008, 03:07 PM
Never mind.

freedom lover
October 5, 2008, 03:09 PM
Does your posting further the eventual resolution of this conflict?

If people give money to Oleg's cause then it certainly does.

Stealing is not right.

Tribal
October 5, 2008, 03:10 PM
Most people who visit here don't actually seem to be aware of the dispute, as the explanation put at the top by Derek Zeanah is now gone. Unless you read the blogs of the various parties involved, you probably won't know by reading the site.

ExpatGator
October 5, 2008, 03:11 PM
"It makes perfect sense that those who are just now reading about this have strong feelings. THR has been an island of sanity in a internet world of places not so sane. It fosters responsible firearms ownership and is a great place for newcomers to learn about firearms."

The problem is that there is NO information allowed on this site about this situation.

Thanks for the lesson on THR. However, I'm quite aware of what THR is, as I've been a member since its inception, and know who owns it. I am speaking out so that those not in the know, one spoke up on the thread already, can have the unvarnished truth.

ExpatGator
October 5, 2008, 03:13 PM
Tribal, I'm fairly certain that I will also be taking a break from the site :neener:

freedom lover
October 5, 2008, 03:14 PM
The problem is that there is NO information allowed on this site about this situation.

Exactly. Derek has this site in a stranglehold.

He has resorted to using Gestapo tactics. Censoring is bad for everyone. The truth needs to get out.

Justice must be done.

Oleg Volk
October 5, 2008, 03:29 PM
Many moderators are here to ensure that TheHighRoad forum survives. Art Eatman is one of those upstanding men.

Only a couple of staff members are in the fight. The rest are running THR as usual for the benefit of the forum and its members.

The civil suit has been prepared. Spreading the news of it is a big help.

ExpatGator
October 5, 2008, 03:31 PM
Hello Oleg. What is the situation on APS?

Oleg Volk
October 5, 2008, 03:32 PM
APS seems down at this time.

ExpatGator
October 5, 2008, 03:34 PM
That is a very cryptic post.

Eric F
October 5, 2008, 03:36 PM
ok I have seen HSO post it was down for maintance.....how long has aps been down?
Are some folks being paranoid?

Owens
October 5, 2008, 03:49 PM
Folks,

I was of a mind to do the boycott thing myself. However, the more I think on it the more
that I believe we should stick around, continuing to contribute and make what Oleg
wanted. A place that is of intelligent and informative truth displayed in a good light.

Those that are staying away in protest, it's not like we can see the Million Member March.

Instead it is silence. What you are not saying by silence is also depriving the site of further
good stuff.

When Oleg's property is returned, I think it would be nice for him to get it in good condition.
Not weak and anemic.

Just a thought. Do as you see fit.
Owens

Art Eatman
October 5, 2008, 03:49 PM
Paranoia seems to be the order of the day.

There is Oleg's argument, and there is Derek's argument. They both believe what they're saying--which is why there is a problem. Two guys, disagreeing, each believing they are correct in their views.

Total acceptance of the argument of either of them is foolish, since there is no way to know every last bit of pertinent information. Too much of what they each believe depends on their verbal discussions from years ago.

The best thing for all of us who are not directly involved in THEIR argument is to leave it be.

And behave as though this is The High Road, not an elementary school yard at recess.

Art

kingpin008
October 5, 2008, 03:53 PM
The best thing for all of us who are not directly involved in THEIR argument is to leave it be.

And behave as though this is The High Road, not an elementary school yard at recess.

Best said!

Eric F
October 5, 2008, 03:53 PM
Two guys, disagreeing, each believing they are correct in their views.

THR is full of threads just like this. not sure what my point is but its true

ExpatGator
October 5, 2008, 03:54 PM
Art Eatman, I respectfully request that you close my account. Thanks and Best Regards, ExpatHighRoader

Tribal
October 5, 2008, 04:24 PM
Respectfully, it's that this is "The High Road" that is the cause for special relevance here. I suspect that a disproportionate number of members have a heightened sense of ethics and of right vs. wrong.

Right now there's an allegation that this forum has been stolen from its rightful owner. Whether or not it has been is something I'm not in any position to know. Imagine you were at the firing range and the guy next to you offered to let you shoot a really nice rifle, but your friend who was there with you whispered to you that the rifle the guy was offering looked an awful lot like the unique rifle another range member owned and claimed was missing. Faced with this allegation of the rifle being stolen, would you shoot it or would you pass on the chance?

I suspect that many here would pass, just as they probably don't have any illegally-downloaded MP3s and don't cheat on their taxes. For honest men (and women), the allegation that something is stolen is enough to make it so that they want nothing to do with it until the matter is settled.

Very few people really know what's going on, but many people are aware that something foul may be afoot. We don't need posts decrying one side or the other, but it's only right that members should be able to learn without posts getting deleted or locked and the poster getting banned.

THR members deserve to know about the allegation (and also the counter-allegation). If we're unwittingly benefiting from stolen goods (again: I don't know whether THR is or isn't stolen), we deserve the opportunity to make an informed decision rather than being potentially tainted by association.

akodo
October 5, 2008, 04:38 PM
Oleg made THR Derek provided the hardware on which it ran. In Derek's own words, he considers himself half owner. Oleg consideres himself full owner.

If you have half owner, you have no right to lock out the other owner, so even going by Derek's own words, <removal of misspelled personal attack>.

This is Oleg's sight, if he wants to put up banner adds for porno, or sell it to Obama, that is his right. As others have said, such action would cause me to sever any relation with Oleg and cause me to see him as dirt. However, it would be his legal right.

<removal of misspelled personal attack> Allowing him to destroy THR by us not posting would be making a bad matter worse

Donate to the legal defense fund, but keep on discussing RKBA here

Eric F
October 5, 2008, 04:42 PM
THERE YOU GO HAVE AT IT AND NEXT TIME DONT BE PARANOID!:cuss:

IS THE SKY REALLY FALLING?:banghead:

craig
October 5, 2008, 05:09 PM
IBTL or the vanishing thread syndrome occurs.:neener:

NavajoNPaleFace
October 5, 2008, 05:43 PM
I would like to know what adminstrators and moderators are siding with whom.

I had an issue a few weeks back where a moderator closed a legitimate thread (no bashing or the likes took place, either) I posted. I asked an Administrator to look into it and I got smoke blown up my south forty orifice.

My point is personal, I know, but I'd like to know if the Administrator or Moderator is pro Olek or pro Derek. It does matter to me. Just like I want to know who my politicians are siding with.

Oops, this one may get closed...I used the word 'politicians', LOL.

In a nutshell I know which of the ones I would support and I want to know which of the rulers are on my side of the fence and which ones are agin me.

Pure Kustom
October 5, 2008, 05:46 PM
Oops, this one may get closed...I used the word 'politicians', LOL.


:what: funny how that happens, post bailout.............


I would like to know what adminstrators and moderators are siding with whom.

I had an issue a few weeks back where a moderator closed a legitimate thread (no bashing or the likes took place, either) I posted. I asked an Administrator to look into it and I got smoke blown up my south forty orifice.

My point is personal, I know, but I'd like to know if the Administrator or Moderator is pro Olek or pro Derek. It does matter to me. Just like I want to know who my politicians are siding with.

Yeah and your point is a valid one indeed.

jahwarrior
October 5, 2008, 06:09 PM
Censoring is bad for everyone. The truth needs to get out.

sorry to break it to you, but forums aren't protected by the 1A. the mods here can, and do, delete threads, posts, and members at will. i've had 2 threads disappear, and seen the same essential topics come up later, with someone else's name on it. censorship, favoritism and the like has always been a part of internet forums, and always will. get used to it, or get somewhere else, like i have.

Jeff White
October 5, 2008, 06:46 PM
The staff here is only on one side. The staff supports THR. Those of us who remain are only interested in keeping things running the way they always have.

That's all the membership needs to be concerned with. THR is not Oleg, it's not Derek, THR is US, all of us, staff and members who make this the community that it is.

It doesn't matter who owns the domain name or who's servers it runs on. What matters is that it remains the same forum it's always been. If you are here solely because of Oleg or Derek, you are here for the wrong reasons.

The staff is going to keep THR the best place to find civil and knowledgeable discussion of firearms and RKBA on the world wide web. We are not going to let a dispute about who owns a domain name or who's server something runs on get in the way of that. And the members shouldn't either.

Without the members to contribute their knowledge and experiences and the staff to keep things focused, THR is nothing. All of you members and all of us on staff is what makes THR what it is. It doesn't matter who owns the domain name or who's servers the place runs on. Those are nitnoid details that we don't need to concern ourselves with. Let those people who have a direct interest in ownership of the domain name and servers worry about those details. Without us, the members and the staff, the domain name is meaningless.

It's time to end all of the public talk about who did what to who and when. Let those who are involved work it out. If that's what you are here for, you're in the wrong place.

Let's not waste anymore bandwidth on idle gossip about who is on who's side.

Jeff

We'll waste

ridata
October 5, 2008, 06:53 PM
My point is personal, I know, but I'd like to know if the Administrator or Moderator is pro Olek or pro Derek. It does matter to me. Just like I want to know who my politicians are siding with.

As Oleg said above, for the most part they are not taking sides - they are keeping THR the great place it has always been. (ETA: as Jeff White said before I posted above)

I think both Oleg and Derek would like a few less threads popping up about this all over, but Oleg wants you to advertise his legal defense fund privately.

Tribal
October 5, 2008, 06:57 PM
Again respectfully, Jeff White, I have to disagree. If the property has been stolen, as has been alleged, then arguably anyone adding any substance to THR is assisting in the commission of a felony (to be dramatic but also accurate).

You have said that THR runs off (free) member contributions. At the same time, this situation seems to be about making money off the site. It doesn't seem very "high road" to allow members to contribute substance without letting them know that their words are being used to generate revenue by those who are alleged not to have a right to operate the site.

Again, I don't have any true idea of who (if anyone) is right here. To allow substantial comments for the purpose of enhancing the value of THR while shutting down all discussion of the ethics of doing so (and without even a warning that the matter is under investigation and soon legal action) is not what many of us have come to expect from The High Road.

hso
October 5, 2008, 07:03 PM
THR is serving the same purpose it has always had. To provide one of the very few civil places RKBA and firearms can be discussed on the intarweb and to, hopefully, show undecided citizens that the anti propaganda against gun owners is false by showing reasonable and rational behavior is the norm here.

Now some folks are interesting in drama. THR isn't about drama.

So, when you see drama here consider that the poster isn't interested in THR's mission or the vision for the place. They're interested in drama.

Jeff White
October 5, 2008, 07:14 PM
Tribal,
It's your right to disagree. But it's our right to keep the discussion of this off our forum.

If the property has been stolen, as has been alleged, then arguably anyone adding any substance to THR is assisting in the commission of a felony (to be dramatic but also accurate).

What's been stolen? Do you know? Do you have any facts that would prove something was stolen? What are the elements of the crime of theft in any of the jurisdictions that this could possibly be adjudicated in?

Frankly if you can't answer those questions, you don't know enough about what's going on to speak knowledgeably about it. In that case it's best to just keep quiet don't you think? Do you think idle speculation and wild guesses about what went on like we have in threads on shootings here helps anything?

You have said that THR runs off (free) member contributions. At the same time, this situation seems to be about making money off the site. It doesn't seem very "high road" to allow members to contribute substance without letting them know that their words are being used to generate revenue by those who are alleged not to have a right to operate the site.

Please provide a link to the ad on THR that anyone is making money from. You can't. THR doesn't produce anything but bills for server time and professional IT services that have always been met with private contributions from the members and staff. No one is making a penny from THR. That is the truth.

Again, I don't have any true idea of who (if anyone) is right here. To allow substantial comments for the purpose of enhancing the value of THR while shutting down all discussion of the ethics of doing so (and without even a warning that the matter is under investigation and soon legal action) is not what many of us have come to expect from The High Road.

You're right, you don't have any idea about who is right. And frankly it's none of your business. That's right, not your business, not my business, nobody's business but those who are involved. There are only two people involved in this dispute and you aren't one of them.

It's never a good idea to stick your nose in your neighbor's dispute. We talk about staying out of things all the time in S&T. And that's exactly what the membership needs to do, stay out of it.

If you've ever been involved in litigation you'd know that the less public discussion of the matter the better. It's best for both parties that we don't have a discussion of those events here.

If you don't think that's very High Road, I'm sorry. Perhaps you'd be happier not logging in for awhile. Because we aren't going to try this case here.

Jeff

Tribal
October 5, 2008, 07:19 PM
hso, I believe that you and the other mods who are saying that there is nothing to see here and that this is a private matter are misunderstanding the situation. If this were about whether someone like to cross-dress or was having marital trouble or whether the site had been the victim of DOS attacks then I'd almost certainly agree with you and defend that view against all comers.

Here, though, we have the allegation that THR is being used illegally. If we are to believe a mod who says that "THR is US, all of us, staff and members who make this the community that it is," then the matter is not properly kept private. Preventing personal attacks and preventing libel are worthy goals, but it is wrong for there not to be an acknowledgement of the situation on the front page (as existed a few days ago) and for members to be prevented from discussion what has become public knowledge.

I believe that to do otherwise would be to create a desert and call it peace. I'm encouraged that this thread has been kept open and has had mod discussion; please keep it open and allow respectful discussion by members without there being a fear of banning hanging over the heads of those who are trying to do what is ethical and right (whatever they may construe that to be).

Update: Jeff White, Oleg Volk, founder of this site, has alleged (http://olegvolk.livejournal.com/477181.html) that THR has been stolen. It is public knowledge that the allegation has been made. That doesn't mean that it's true: you're very right that I have no way of having the first inkling as to that. What I do know, though, is that the character of THR has been publicly called into question. That this is The High Road suggests that ethics are important and worth considering.

Al Norris
October 5, 2008, 07:26 PM
Those of you that know me (Antipitas over at TFL), either respect me or could care less what I have to say. That's a given.

All of this should have never seen the light of day, at least, until it was long over with, if ever. Too late for that now. But that's the only public opinion about this that I will voice.

What I can say is that The High Road has been a place for many, to acquire knowledge, to have meaningful discussion, to even find friendship.

All this bickering that is going on, will have an affect on THR. Calls for boycotting THR will also have an affect. Whatever the final outcome, do we really want THR to end up damaged?

I ask, because all this "airing of the dirty laundry" is going to do, is to damage a fine board.

Jeff White
October 5, 2008, 07:31 PM
hso, I believe that you and the other mods who are saying that there is nothing to see here and that this is a private matter are misunderstanding the situation.

What do you think you know about this situation? Don't you think that those of us who are in a position to know, might, just maybe know more about this then you do?

Here, though, we have the allegation that THR is being used illegally.

THR is not being used illegally. Period, end of discussion. How much plainer do you need it spelled out for you? If THR was being used illegally it would have been shut down.

Preventing personal attacks and preventing libel are worthy goals, but it is wrong for there not to be an acknowledgement of the situation on the front page (as existed a few days ago) and for members to be prevented from discussion what has become public knowledge.

Obviously we disagree. And until someone tells us different, the staff is still running things here.

Al Norris said;

All this bickering that is going on, will have an affect on THR. Calls for boycotting THR will also have an affect. Whatever the final outcome, do we really want THR to end up damaged?

I ask, because all this "airing of the dirty laundry" is going to do, is to damage a fine board.

Exactly Al. With that, this one is closed. Tribal if you want to continue the discussion you will do it in private.

Jeff

hso
October 6, 2008, 05:04 PM
See Oleg's post at http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=398028 asking everyone to quit stirring the pot.

hso
October 8, 2008, 03:09 PM
And to drive the steak into the heart of this life-sucking monster, Oleg just posted that Derek transferred the APS database over to the new server. That occurred after Derek reached a brief gap in his overfull schedule between full time job, MBA program projects and tests crunch and family responsibilities.

If you enjoyed reading about "APS was apparently hijacked" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!