7.62x39 defensive ammo


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Timradcliffe345
October 6, 2008, 08:24 PM
I am looking for excellent 7.62x39 defensive ammo.

Someone recommended me Wolf MC HP. Is there anything better than this out there? If so what? Thanks.

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gunNoob
October 6, 2008, 08:25 PM
incendiary ammo :)

ammunitiontogo.com

JImbothefiveth
October 6, 2008, 08:26 PM
You'll set your house on fire with those!

Bodo
October 6, 2008, 08:36 PM
cor bon 125gr jhp muzz vel is 2400 or fed 123gr sp or rem 123gr sp. dont know the vel for these two.

AK103K
October 6, 2008, 08:47 PM
There are soft point versions available. I have some from both Wolf and the old Barnaul, which I think is being sold under the Brown and Silver Bear brands now.

Most of the HP's really are nothing more than a FMJ with a whole in the tip. They are neither target nor hunting rounds.

I've had the best luck accuracy wise, with the Barnaul 125 grain SP's. They are made like Sierra's Game Kings, with a jacketed base.

I've also had good luck with the Wolf 154 grain SP's. These have the normal "roll crimped" bases, but still shoot very well, or at least the lot I have does. I usually get 3-4" groups (from a rest) with it at 200 yards.

RockyMtnTactical
October 6, 2008, 09:04 PM
I wouldn't use Wolf, it's not known to be reliable enough (in any caliber) to be trusted for self defense. I prefer a better, more reliable manufacturer, like Barnaul, Bear, etc...

rob_s
October 6, 2008, 09:30 PM
.7.62x39

Lapua 125gr JSP

Winchester Super-X 123 gr Power-Point (X76239)

Both loads show good terminal performance in bare gel and through car windows.

The recent loading of the 124gr Wolf "Military Classic" HP shows promising performance. This ammo is made by Ulyanovsk using their 8M3 bullet, and has been shown to fragment in several tests:
7.62x39mm Sapsan 124 gr JHP (Ulyanovsk Machinery Plant) from 16” AKMS
BG: vel=2297 f/s, pen=15.0”, Max TC=10cm@18cm, RD=0.63”, RW=100.5gr

source (http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/index.htm)

Z-Michigan
October 6, 2008, 09:42 PM
I saw photos of MC 124gr JHP tested posted at AR15.com... results are very impressive, similar to the best 6.8 SPC tests I've seen. That would be my choice. Shoot lots to make sure it goes bang, if that worries you, and definitely shoot enough to make sure it feeds in your gun since it has a fairly big hollow point and a different profile than FMJ bullets in that caliber.

davepool
October 6, 2008, 09:54 PM
I've put over 500 rnds of Wolf black box, and almost 1000 rnds of Wolf military classic through my Yugo m70 and haven't had one failure to boom. ballistically i think any 7.62x39 would be more than enough for self defence

armoredman
October 6, 2008, 10:02 PM
Any round should do OK, the military issue is FMJ, and it has garnerd a rep over the last "few" years. :)
I am finding the best 123gr SP handload I can whip up for holycow ammo. But Wolf will do if the bovine species feces hits the rotating occilator.

BammaYankee
October 6, 2008, 10:03 PM
A few years back I bought some ammo loaded with 123 VMAX's. The company was D&S Mfg. and sold through Midway USA if I remember correctly. Anyway, they shoot clean, are pretty accurate, and will shred a water filled cat litter jug at 50 yards! I imagine you could reload your own and get similar results. These would definitely be a good SD/HD load!

polik6887
October 7, 2008, 01:08 AM
http://www.sksboards.com/smf/index.php?topic=37850.0

the wolf military classic JHP (using the 8m3 bullet), fragment as you can see above.

wolf MC JHP is the best self defense round I have found, when you factor in penetration and price. next is the remington SP, they expand well, but dont penetrate as well and are more money. I have read reviews of wolf SP saying they have inconsistent expansion.

check here for more discussion of frag ranges and velocity,as well as phonebook testing.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=4&f=54&t=110738

RP88
October 7, 2008, 01:23 AM
a soft-point and hollow-point will be your best bet. FMJ is going to bring liability issues your way when you use it and it goes through your house and hits your neighbor's house/car/dog/kid/face

Deus Machina
October 7, 2008, 01:28 AM
Any soft- or hollow-point bullet, as long as it's 100% reliable.

I've seen DPX in x39. It's marketed as a hunting round, but considering it's DPX that would make me comfortable carrying a .380, I think it will do the job in a x39.

Only suggesting that because I have yet to find Gold Dots for my AK. :p

Tarvis
October 7, 2008, 01:33 AM
You can consider penetration and expansion on a human target, but I'd consider reliability paramount over all other factors. Now, take two brands that are equally reliable in your rifle and start figuring other factors. If you can run 200 rounds through your rifle without a burp or fart, you've got a good starting point.

benEzra
October 7, 2008, 09:05 AM
Are there any current sources for the VMAX loads?

Otherwise, Cor-Bon's light JHP would be my choice. With 7.62x39mm, overpenetration would be my primary concern with most loads, unless you live in a brick or masonry house.

BattleChimp Potemkin
October 7, 2008, 10:23 AM
Graf and Sons has Vmax tipped (or I thought they did) remanufactured ammo, for around 13 bucks a box. Brassfetcher.com did a test on them and they FRAGMENT CRAZY!! Not sure how well that would translate to home defense, but blowthrough would be minimal at that.

Z-Michigan
October 7, 2008, 10:47 AM
FMJ is going to bring liability issues your way when you use it and it goes through your house and hits your neighbor's house/car/dog/kid/face

The HP and SP bullets won't deform and stop unless they hit living tissue. If you miss the bad guy, they will go through just as many walls as the FMJ.

I still think the HP is the best choice, but don't have unrealistic ideas about safety from overpenetration.

nathan
October 7, 2008, 11:12 AM
Hit them in the center of mass and it will fall like it should be.

Mike U.
October 7, 2008, 03:36 PM
Originally posted by RockyMtnTactical:

I wouldn't use Wolf, it's not known to be reliable enough (in any caliber) to be trusted for self defense. I prefer a better, more reliable manufacturer, like Barnaul, Bear, etc...

Can you point me to some evidence of this assertion?


Reason being, I've never had a failure of any kind with the Wolf black box and I've run at least a thousand rounds through it. That's not to say it doesn't happen. Just, I've never seen evidence of it in my experience.

Hoplophile
October 7, 2008, 03:48 PM
What about glaser safety slugs?

KBintheSLC
October 7, 2008, 05:01 PM
I just chronie'd a box of Brown Bear 123gr JSP that I bought a case of. I was amazed that it came out of my 16" AK barrel at a whopping 2420 fps on average. I was expecting mid to lower 2300's. That being said, it would make excellent defensive ammo. It was totally reliable and reasonably accurate to boot. I was impressed, and will likely not blow any more money on "premium" domestic loadings at over twice the cost.

What about glaser safety slugs?
Never cared for them. If you are concerned with penetration issues, I would choose a different caliber altogether.

geologist
October 7, 2008, 05:13 PM
I still have a case of Norinco silver box, non-corrosive FMJ's. I've fired two cases of it through my SKS without a hiccup or a jam so I figure it's good enough. Just make sure of what's behind the target.

benEzra
October 7, 2008, 05:44 PM
What about glaser safety slugs?
They would be great, if you didn't have to be wealthy to afford them.

Midway USA has them for $14.99 for six rounds. That's $75 PER MAGAZINE.

It would cost $225 plus shipping just to test-fire two magazines' worth to ensure they feed properly in your gun and check point of impact, and fill one magazine for defensive purposes. If you want to test-fire 200 rounds as is commonly recommended, that's $500 plus shipping. Ouch. You could buy a second AK in .223 for that much and have money left over.

The Cor-Bon price isn't much better ($42.99/20 rounds, compared to $49.97/20 for the Glasers).

Z-Michigan
October 7, 2008, 05:54 PM
Actually, I think Glaser "safety slugs" are a poor choice for defensive ammo on anything bigger than raccoons. They have hardly any penetration. They might be good inside an airliner or nuclear plant, but anywhere else they are overpriced silliness.

AK103K
October 7, 2008, 07:08 PM
Can you point me to some evidence of this assertion?
I can give you my personal experiences with it. Normally, I get one or two, and sometimes more, rounds that dont fire per case (1000), including the "black box" stuff, which I still have a bunch and shoot a good bit of. The only Wolf I havent had a misfire with yet, has been the 154 grain SP's.


What about glaser safety slugs?
Personally, I wouldnt waste my money on the fancy SD rounds. I just dont see the point. It is a rifle, and any of the hunting ammo will do fine in the anti personnel role, so will the FMJ or HP for that matter.

If your worried about over penetration, your best bets probably a shotgun. Just about everything else will over penetrate, and even the shotgun will with loads I'd want in it.

Mike U.
October 8, 2008, 12:11 AM
I can give you my personal experiences with it. Normally, I get one or two, and sometimes more, rounds that dont fire per case (1000), including the "black box" stuff, which I still have a bunch and shoot a good bit of. The only Wolf I havent had a misfire with yet, has been the 154 grain SP's.



Wow. That hasn't been my experience...yet.

Of course, "yet" is the key word. :uhoh:

fastbike
October 9, 2008, 11:04 PM
I'm with Mike U. I've shot a bunch of the Wolf Gold in several calibers and haven't had any problems. I will say that all of the Wolf that I have shot have been made by Privy.

On the other hand, both of my son's SKSs (1 Yugo, 1 Russian) will shoot Wolf steel cased w/ no problem.

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