Those wacky Russians are at it again....


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SDC
October 7, 2008, 11:56 AM
I just ran across these pictures of (believe it or not), a 50-calibre light machine gun (known as the 6P62), built by the Degtyarev Arms Factory. 14-round box magazine-fed, firing the 12.7x108mm Soviet HMG round, and able to pierce up to 20mm of armour with their new API round. There are even weirder things floating around over there.

http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p22/StaceyC123/1356515.jpg

http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p22/StaceyC123/1356517.jpg

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Deer Hunter
October 7, 2008, 11:58 AM
God forbid we ever piss off the Spetnez....:D

gunNoob
October 7, 2008, 12:02 PM
I can has?

jerkface11
October 7, 2008, 12:09 PM
So basically a suppressed .50cal ak. Pretty awesome.

Coronach
October 7, 2008, 12:11 PM
.50 caliber ... light machine gun.

More taste, less filling!

Mike :D

Vern Humphrey
October 7, 2008, 12:19 PM
I suspect that is a reduced velocity round. First of all, the can would only suppress muzzle blast, which is why they are rarely used on weapons with supersonic velocity. Second, the gun appears pretty light -- lighter than our .50 cal sniper rifles, by quite a margin.

Z-Michigan
October 7, 2008, 12:20 PM
Anyone else notice that the guy in the photo is wearing what looks like US Woodland camo? Did the Russians copy that?

Anyhoo, real curious what the muzzle brake/suppressor arrangement is and how controllable this is on automatic.

Deer Hunter
October 7, 2008, 12:21 PM
Even if it was a reduced round, it'd still be very strong. Their .50 is much stronger than our .50.

Z-Michigan
October 7, 2008, 12:22 PM
the can would only suppress muzzle blast, which is why they are rarely used on weapons with supersonic velocity

Actually suppressor cans do a good job at reducing recoil also. Unfortunately the NFA makes them painfully expensive to get here in the US.

MGshaggy
October 7, 2008, 12:23 PM
Seems to suffer the same problem as the PK/PKM - nowhere to get a good grip on the weapon with your offhand to stabilize it if you're firing from the shoulder or hip (he's got to hold the bottom of the mag). It looks as if it needs a good handguard under the trunion. At least with a PK you can use the carry handle and walk the rounds in if firing from the hip.

max popenker
October 7, 2008, 12:24 PM
I suspect that is a reduced velocity round
No. It's standard 12.7x108, and from that barrel it clocks at about 600 m/s or 1970 fps with standard 48 gram / 740 grain bullet.

It's still in early prototype form, and from what i know it is intended for light vehicle (and possibly airdrop) applications

Vern Humphrey
October 7, 2008, 12:24 PM
Even if it was a reduced round, it'd still be very strong. Their .50 is much stronger than our .50.
True -- but a subsonic .50 is a subsonic .50. Something less than the old .50-70.

Actually suppressor cans do a good job at reducing recoil also. Unfortunately the NFA makes them painfully expensive to get here in the US.
Not this one -- take a look at it. All the vents are in the front.

Deer Hunter
October 7, 2008, 12:28 PM
Ah, you were speaking of true subsonic loads. I see.

Even then, you'd be hard-pressed to find decent cover from that thing.

SDC
October 7, 2008, 12:30 PM
If that isn't wild enough for you, here are two designs developed in the 1960s by a designer named G.A. Korobov; a three-barreled bullpup design known only as the "ZB Device", and then a further prototype of that rifle, with a .50-calibre grenade launcher under the 7.62mm barrels, known as the TKB-059; a 50 calibre projectile doesn't leave much room for a payload, but it might be just the thing for Aliens :-)

http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p22/StaceyC123/ZBDevice.jpg

http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p22/StaceyC123/TKB-059.jpg

alemonkey
October 7, 2008, 01:09 PM
14 rounds isn't much capacity for a LMG. Too bad it can't take belted ammunition.

Vern Humphrey
October 7, 2008, 01:16 PM
It's clearly not an LMG. What its tactical role isn't clear.

SDC
October 7, 2008, 01:28 PM
You're forgetting, these are the same people that make a full-automatic 10-round SNIPER RIFLE :-)

http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p22/StaceyC123/SVU-AS.jpg

Z-Michigan
October 7, 2008, 01:31 PM
Not this one -- take a look at it. All the vents are in the front.

I see a hole for the bullet to exit, and I see a hole in the right side of the muzzle (i.e. 90 degrees from the muzzle exit) near the muzzle. I assume there is a matching hole on the left side. The right side hole looks like a brake to me. The can looks like a suppressor. It wouldn't make this anywhere close to silent, but would presumably reduce a concussive blast that would otherwise injure and stun the user.

Hard to guess too much without more photos or details.

As for usefulness, modern battlefields have fewer tanks and more un or lightly armored vehicles. This would be bad news for those sorts of vehicles, and it would allow a lot more rounds, range, and accuracy than an RPG. Just guessing, of course.

Vern Humphrey
October 7, 2008, 01:58 PM
I see a hole for the bullet to exit, and I see a hole in the right side of the muzzle (i.e. 90 degrees from the muzzle exit) near the muzzle.
That looks like a hole for inserting a rod to remove the can.

Whatever, it doesn't make sense. If it is designed to function as a muzzle brake, it would be a highly inefficient muzzle brake, and a highly inefficient suppressor.

Gord
October 7, 2008, 02:31 PM
You're forgetting, these are the same people that make a full-automatic 10-round SNIPER RIFLE :-)

Rule One of Russian firearms design: it's always better with a happy switch.

Adding a full-auto setting is the Russian version of bolting a spoiler and a fake carbon-fiber hood onto your front-wheel-drive Civic: instant +50HP to the rear wheels, no matter what anyone else says. ;)

Aaryq
October 7, 2008, 04:55 PM
I will not say that Mother Russia has been good to us until she sends me one of those. Then I'll do whatever comrades Putin and Medviev tells me...so long as I get to spend at least a day behind the trigger.

RP88
October 7, 2008, 05:06 PM
can't really see the point in it, unless you plan on unloading the clip into the side of a tank at point-blank range. but considering how the Russians werent really big on long-range accuracy, I guess they get by rather well with turning everything into a machine gun, then getting right next to you before shooting.

paintballdude902
October 7, 2008, 07:01 PM
if i join the russian army can i defect to the us and keep my .50 light machine gun?

Evil Monkey
October 7, 2008, 07:38 PM
I'm predicting the purpose of this weapon is not to suppress an enemy, as it is NOT a true machine gun capable of such feat.

Rather, this weapon was probably devised to be used in a heavily urban environment by a special forces team in order to defeat targets at close range (up to 600 yards I'm guessing) that are entrenched behind a hard barrier of sorts, and/or armoured vehicles. It seems no different than the American 50cal Barrett except this Russian weapon sports 4 more rounds and an integral suppressor,......and full auto.

I don't think this weapon could ever be used in the army, at any level. It doesn't have volume like GPMG's, most likely too heavy for one soldier to use and carry a tactical amount of ammo for, the squads already have a bunch of GP-30 GL's and a rocket launcher or two for defeating hard barriers. This 50 cal auto rifle just doesn't fit anywhere else.

RyanM
October 7, 2008, 08:28 PM
I suspect that is a reduced velocity round. First of all, the can would only suppress muzzle blast, which is why they are rarely used on weapons with supersonic velocity.

Muzzle blast is still a significant portion of the noise. Especially for the guy shooting the thing, and anyone around him. And it muffles the "bang" part of the crack-bang, making it harder to locate the shooter, if not impossible if they're far enough away that you can't even hear the "bang."

AmishFury
October 7, 2008, 08:37 PM
If that isn't wild enough for you, here are two designs developed in the 1960s by a designer named G.A. Korobov; a three-barreled bullpup design known only as the "ZB Device", and then a further prototype of that rifle, with a .50-calibre grenade launcher under the 7.62mm barrels, known as the TKB-059; a 50 calibre projectile doesn't leave much room for a payload, but it might be just the thing for Aliens :-)

looks like soemthing out of duke nukem 3d
http://mac.softpedia.com/screenshots/9-771_1.png

Geronimo45
October 7, 2008, 08:59 PM
Wow. It's a .50-cal BAR. :cool:

You're forgetting, these are the same people that make a full-automatic 10-round SNIPER RIFLE
I think that's for the purpose of avoiding having a guy carry a secondary weapon.

Evil Monkey
October 7, 2008, 09:01 PM
I think that's for the purpose of avoiding having a guy carry a secondary weapon.

DING DING DING DING DING!

Whatever you can do to make the weapon versatile, you do it. Although the ten round mag it uses isn't enough, I believe there have been some development in 18 or 20 rounds mags. I've seen pictures of them somewhere.

younganddumb
October 7, 2008, 09:12 PM
excusse my ignorance and spelling but max are you really from russia if so can you PM me I would really like to visit there one day

Zach

MechAg94
October 7, 2008, 10:27 PM
Is penetrating 20mm of armor all that great for a 50 caliber rifle?

SDC
October 7, 2008, 11:16 PM
It's about the same as for US .50 M2 AP.

Wes Janson
October 8, 2008, 12:27 AM
That looks like a hole for inserting a rod to remove the can.

Whatever, it doesn't make sense. If it is designed to function as a muzzle brake, it would be a highly inefficient muzzle brake, and a highly inefficient suppressor.

On the contrary, it makes a tremendous amount of sense. I've shot several fairly small .50 BMG suppressors/sound moderators, and have to say that it really doesn't make sense not to have one on there. The goal isn't silent assassination, it's making the rifle more effective on the battlefield. While there's still a crack, the muzzle blast is largely elminated, and the sound signature is much less harsh, increasing the flexibility of the rifle in use.

The most important aspect of that rifle as I see it would be the fact that it appears to be a gas piston design, meaning it should be both easier to suppress, and potentially more accurate than the M107.

Whether it's intended to be used for short-to-medium-range interdiction, or something else entirely is difficult to tell. That holo sight on top would seem to suggest it's intended for short range only, but then again as a prototype who knows.

Famaldehide Face
October 9, 2008, 11:21 AM
That .50cal AK is the Soviet Response to the Cobra Assault Cannon from Robocop but in full auto:D

MD_Willington
October 9, 2008, 02:23 PM
LOL.. Saiga .50 anyone.. LOL

N1150X
October 9, 2008, 03:51 PM
I just having a hard time getting over the guy with no ear protection

alemonkey
October 9, 2008, 11:00 PM
Ear protection is for soft western girlie men.

:)

Avenger
October 9, 2008, 11:50 PM
Um, is that an AR collapsible stock on it?

gvnwst
October 9, 2008, 11:51 PM
what is recoil with this thing like???? looks like a good anti t-rex gun:D

sarduy
October 10, 2008, 12:44 AM
LOL.. Saiga .50 anyone.. LOL

saiga on esteroids lol....

TehK1w1
October 10, 2008, 01:02 AM
seems like this would be an excellent weapon against light and medium-armored vehicles like Humvees, especially with a larger magazine.

Z-Michigan
October 10, 2008, 01:06 AM
Ear protection is for soft western girlie men.

WHAT? Did you say something???

Ignition Override
October 10, 2008, 02:44 AM
For the modern Russian soldier the Mosin Nagant 44 is now the bb gun.

Dos vedanya Kommandier.

Beagle-zebub
October 10, 2008, 05:13 AM
Certainly interesting, but I think the Kord is more impresive, since it can do just about all the same stuff, while being a combat-tested design feeding from a belt. 12.7mm with a muzzle-brake, though...that thing's gotta be ungodly loud.

Which is all the better, in my book. :evil:

VirgilCaine
October 10, 2008, 05:37 AM
Between the PPSh-41, the AK-47, the Saiga, this 4 gauge monstrosity (http://world.guns.ru/shotgun/sh30-e.htm), and a Russian five-shot revolver shotgun I saw, I am forced to conclude that apparently Russian firearms philosophy is, in general, "MORE DAKKA!" (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MoreDakka)

Beagle-zebub
October 10, 2008, 07:48 AM
LOL, Virgil, good one. Wasn't Soviet doctrine concerning the AK-47, in even its oldest and least-controllable forms, that full-auto is the standard mode of fire? I want to say I read that somewhere, but I can't recall where, and I'm too delirious to find it right now.

PTK
October 10, 2008, 08:51 AM
Oh those wacky Russians.... :D

Realbigo
October 11, 2008, 12:00 AM
Yeah the Russkies copied American Camo. They presently use like 15 different kinds. This weapon makes me remember that just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should. I doubt its much of a surpressor w/ a 12.7mm round. It might keep the sound down enough that it's harder to locate the source.

Wes Janson
October 11, 2008, 01:07 AM
I doubt its much of a surpressor w/ a 12.7mm round. It might keep the sound down enough that it's harder to locate the source.

You'd be absolutely amazed how much of a difference even a mediocre suppressor can make for a .50 BMG. They're not silent, but it makes them way, way, way more pleasant to shoot.

VirgilCaine
October 11, 2008, 06:43 AM
LOL, Virgil, good one. Wasn't Soviet doctrine concerning the AK-47, in even its oldest and least-controllable forms, that full-auto is the standard mode of fire? I want to say I read that somewhere, but I can't recall where, and I'm too delirious to find it right now.

I remember that, too. It was mentioned to me, IIRC, in the context that the SKS was adopted at a time when Soviet infantry tactics dictated large amounts of full-auto fire, which the SKS obviously cannot provide.

benEzra
October 11, 2008, 10:20 AM
It seems to me that this rifle is ballistically more like an uprated .50 Beowulf than a .50 BMG. Notice the spec'd ammo is armor-piercing incendiary; I suspect they are using some sort of home-grown Raufoss rounds, for which you need the big caliber (a fat bullet is needed to have room for an effective explosive payload).

Loaded with solid bullets, it probably wouldn't penetrate any more than a shotgun slug or a .45-70, but Raufoss-type rounds allow low-velocity rounds to penetrate stuff they ordinarily wouldn't be able to breach.

Famaldehide Face
November 9, 2008, 11:16 PM
There is some M1911 pistol in .50GI and is rumoured to be more reliable/accurate than the Desert Eagle.

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