Lube Pill Question


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wco
October 9, 2008, 12:52 AM
What diameter should a lube pill be for a .44 and does it matter?

If it's undersized, won't it just compress and expand to size once the ball is loaded on top of it?

WCO

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Snaggletooth
October 9, 2008, 12:59 AM
I cut my lube pills with a .45 cal casing. The ball does mash the pill and form a seal to prevent chain fire and does a good job keeping the spindle lubricated, particularly on Colts.

Smokin_Gun
October 9, 2008, 04:34 AM
My .36 tube is a .455" i.d./.480"o.d. / the cutter is a short tube .410" o.d. soldered in to the .455" i.d. cutting end is the untouched end left sharp by the tube cutter. At a hardware store the'll have brass tubing, .36 is .455 i.d.
use the size below it for the blade.
My .44 is 1/2" or .505" i.d. inner tube(blade).497" - .499".
Solder short pieces into the long holding tube(stack tube) and cut out lube pills removed/chilled in frig form a pan (lube should be about 1/8" thick

Any questions ask me.

SG

pohill
October 9, 2008, 04:57 AM
I mix up the "brew" of beeswax, paraffin and Bore Butter, plug one end of the gun's barrel, pour the brew in the other, wait a minute, then push it out. Now I have a lube stick, from which I can cut perfectly sized lube pills as I need them.
http://i38.tinypic.com/zmbhut.jpg

Snaggletooth
October 9, 2008, 04:20 PM
Ive done much the same as Pohill. I use a piece of pvc plastic for hot water. Plug one end, pour in the solution, let it cool and push it out with a dowel rod and slice it much as he has done.

Calibre44
October 9, 2008, 04:33 PM
Heay pohill

Really like your idea simple but effective!

I smear our equivalent over here of Crisco over the ball it works okay but is messy and can fly off the other chambers occasionally.

Id like to make my own wads but not sure which ones to make? lube or felt.

Are there any advantages to using a lube pill as opposed to a felt wad soaked in lube between the powder and the ball?

pohill
October 9, 2008, 05:56 PM
I've never tried felt wads, but I might someday. It's tough to get the right lube pill recipe. I bought some from Rifle (Wayne) on this forum and they work great - he (or more likely his wife) has the recipe down perfectly. Mostly I've been using Crisco over the balls, but on some guns, my Paterson especially, the Crisco doesn't work anywhere near as well as the lube pills for keeping it lubed. I've also been using the vegetable spray PAM on the Paterson and Remingtons and it also works great (on the cylinder pins and down the barrel).

Smokin_Gun
October 14, 2008, 06:10 AM
This Pic is a Visual of the Dimensions and values of the above process to maintain an diameter that will cimetrically fill the chambers of a .31, .36, or
.44 caliber Cap & Ball Rev.
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c277/Smokin_Gun/PancakeLube.jpg

SG/Rifle

Voodoochile
October 14, 2008, 06:38 AM
SG if I was to do that on our table here at home Moma would wail me with the broom or what ever is convenient.

I think though I'll try making my own Lube Pills soon like Snagle does for when I shoot Ball instead of Conicals.

dwave
October 14, 2008, 12:39 PM
SG if I was to do that on our table here at home Moma would wail me with the broom or what ever is convenient.

Dern straight on that!

Omnivore
October 14, 2008, 08:24 PM
Moma would wail me with the broom

Place newspaper over the table to protect it, use a cutting board, clean up after yourself, and tell her it's your house too, thank you very much. If she still has a problem, tell her you'll have to spend $50K on a new shop so she can have the table all to herself. You could further elaborate on the roll of the modern man and woman, and how, if she on the other hand insists on having dictatorial control of the kitchen and dining room, then she must be claiming sole domain over it, meaning she does all the cooking and cleaning from now on if that's the way it's going to be, and that you'd like a chicken pot pie right now, and hop to it.

Then again, if she's supporting your sorry butt, you'd best do as you're told.

Voodoochile
October 14, 2008, 09:24 PM
LOL!

I like your thinking Omnivore I really do.

My wife of 10 years has been very supportive in my activities be it Archery or firearms "within reason ofcorse" & we both have to support each other both in our aspirations & the many other needs of daily life, I was just thinking that the table that we have was made by her dad & even though we have 2 lil ones running our home "you could say" she does have a pet peve when it comes to the stuff that is on her table.

Oh & BTW, it's mostly my kitchen but only because she get's home much later than I do.

;)

Smokin_Gun
October 14, 2008, 11:33 PM
Well, my a** would be grass too...that's Wayne's Table(Rifle) and I do believe he put that on the table afterwards for the Picture...Junk Yard Dog his Wife that sells the Lube Pills in Qtys. would have had im sleepin' in the Barn for sure, with them pills bein' where'd they 'd not cast a shadow ... HeeHeeHee!

SG

English Bob
October 15, 2008, 04:34 AM
I have found the simplest way is to use felt wads soaked in a mix of 50/50 Wonderlube and Yellow Beeswax. This mix gives a nice solid feel to the wad when seating the ball but is soft enough to mix well with the bunring powder and keep the fouling soft and that cylinder turning. :)

WARDER
October 16, 2008, 05:11 AM
hi load your pistol the proper way ,powder ,filler ball ,and a smear of lithium grease over the top.use semolina as a filler to bring the ball close to the top of the cylinder ,WE ALL USE TWO FLASKS ,ONE POWDER ONE SEMOLINA CUT TO SUIT THE LOAD ,dont mess about with wax wads they dont work well at all,get a syringe fill with lithium grease and squirt ouer the ball when loaded. BEST RESULTS .no messin.

Smokin_Gun
October 16, 2008, 07:49 AM
dont mess about with wax wads they dont work well at all,get a syringe fill with lithium grease and squirt ouer the ball when loaded. BEST RESULTS .no messin.

You sir, parden the expression, may be out of you freakin' mind. IMHO

Lube Pills that are made up of beeswax, parafin, and Olive/Soy Oil are not only the best thing that have ever been used in BP C&B Revs, they easy to make and use, Accurate, increase longevity of use of Rev with out cleaning.
Why would you use filler in a Cap & Ball Rev...and lithium grease in a syringe...if "Wild Bill Hickok" could read this now he'd roll over in his grave. I'd shoot dry before I'd do all that, why? Cause I've done it and used it. Puflon and Lithium Grease...what a mess got three hands?...
I'd like to invite you shooting with me...I wanna show you how well the Lube Pills work compared to two flasks, and a syringe to reload and shoot acutally all day on the walk.
Well are you taking my invite WARD?

Oh I see your New...well don't let me bother you none, but I sincerely mean what I said above. I said "may be out of your mind" time will tell. HeeHee! If you are you almost in the right place.
Welcome Ward,

SG:banghead:

WARDER
October 17, 2008, 04:41 AM
hi smokey i'm a new member but not new to black powder 30years of it in fact ,so i dont need you to tell me which works best and i've drawers full of medals to prove it.how many you got ?.you seem like a whimp afraid to get your hands dirty and by the way i dont think WILD BILL used lub pills,probably good old bear grease over ball. think about it Smokey Boy. unlike you i like to hit what i shoot at .but if your shooting is anything like your slobering you must be O.K. SEE YEH.HE/HE/.

mykeal
October 17, 2008, 07:30 AM
Ok, guys, knock it off. We don't need this kind of stuff.

rjsixgun
October 17, 2008, 10:14 AM
I take a piece of felt and dip it into my bullet lube (50/50 Beezwax/crisco) then take the wet felt put it on paper plate and into the freezer.
When its hard I punch my wads, then put the wads in a coffie cup with some talc-powder and shake. Makes a nice lubed wad that wont stick to the ball or to other wads, and it keeps my barrel very clean.

dwave
October 17, 2008, 01:52 PM
Hey Warder, can your gun go over 100 shots without cleaning? I could only get 6 cylinders before I had to clean up a bit to shoot without lube pills. Check it out:

Colt clone 1851 navy .36
100 shots with lube pills (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=252458&)

Remington clone 1858 army .44
100 shots lube pills chapter 2 (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=321198&)

WARDER
October 17, 2008, 03:04 PM
hi dwave, i would probably only shoot 50-60 shots from my wheel gun before changing to my single shot le page shooting another 50-60 shots but i never had any problems with fouling we would shoot two or three guns during a shooting session.but dont forget i use lithium grease and a semolina filler which cleans the bore on each shot . try it sometime and let me know how you get on

Smokin_Gun
October 17, 2008, 03:41 PM
No need to try it already did with Puf-Lon and lithium grease...you should think about tryin' Lube Pills cuts down on your timed events cut um as a filler which there is no need for in a C&B Rev...as there is in a Cart gun...Lube Pills make a significant differance in giving tighter groups and improved accuracy, along with shootin' well into 200 rounds w/o cleaning or binding.
Knowing where you are from now and that it ain't Tombstone...I will ignore your blunt statements. But your good intent is noted.
Once more I welcome you Warder to the Wild Wild West...

SG

Smokin_Gun
October 17, 2008, 03:56 PM
Aw"L" Dwave that was a year ago how did I miss that...Qudos to to Dwave...xlint job...and as you know my recipe is no secret: Parafin to stiffen, Beeswax or Bolwal Wax, to carry the lube and clean the bore, and olive/Soy Oil or your favorite lube...Best thing in the world besides a real good pet kitty. :evil:

SG

WARDER
October 17, 2008, 05:35 PM
the only problem i have with lube pills is if the gun is hot or on a warm day the lube pills shurly moisten the powder unless you use a cardboard wad on top of the powder first. some one mentioned rolling them in talcum powder this might be a good idea . thanks for the welcome smokin gun, see we can be friends

Smokin_Gun
October 17, 2008, 09:41 PM
Warder I live in the Mojave Desert of So. California where a cool day in the summer id 110-115...why o you think I tell people to adjust to climate with PARAFIN Wax, More Parafin in hotter climates, less or no parafin in 10F degree weather. I've tried and tested these Lube Pills along with many others. If you have an an addition to the recipe that works good on ya mate as my Brother would say...bring it forth when tryed and true.
Will add it to the Notes for the next Book to be written from the Old Coots at BPR forum http://Voy.com/60048.

Come visit us Warder,
Yours truely,
Smokin' Gun
Admin BPR

dwave
October 18, 2008, 02:52 AM
I'm with Smokin_Gun, when it is hot 'n humid, I use more beeswax to make up for the heat. I live in SE Ohio, and it gets pretty hot here in the summer, around 90 to 95 (or hotter sometimes! :)) and VERY high humidity, but I have never had a misfire from my lube pills getting the powder wet. I suppose if you load them up and leave them for a few weeks, maybe. Never in a shooting session have I had a problem.

Thanks for the Qudos! My mix is a bit different (Just because that is what I had on hand, and it worked. Some day I will try adding Parafin. :cool:). 50% beeswax and 50% crisco. In the warmer weather I change my mix a bit to make up for the heat. Lately I have been putting Olive Oil in with the mix and adjusting. Still testing. I think some day I am going to go with a bigger test and try to hit 200.

Smokin_Gun
October 18, 2008, 03:06 AM
Warder, now I know who you are...ya gave it away Pard:neener:
I'll PM you...HeeHee!

SG

Gewehr98
October 18, 2008, 04:11 AM
My understanding is that paraffin wax is petroleum-based, and a definite no-no for anything shooting the Holy Black.

http://www.springerlink.com/content/u1160875v7434113/

I work with beeswax in my BP toys, and have some soy wax I'm ready to tinker with later this winter when things slow down. My BPCR buddies would thrash me soundly about the head and shoulders were I to tell them I was going to use a petroleum-based bullet lube with Goex Cartridge BP. :(

Smokin_Gun
October 18, 2008, 11:33 AM
There's nothing in this artical that I read makin' it bad juju to use a sulfer based waxes from petroleum crude as a danger to usin' Lube Pills with Sulfer based Goex BP... read closely these are lube pills for C&B not Cartridge guns. I would and have used it for boolit lube as most other store bought and home made lubes are.

Also I have Soy wax but have only found it in packs of shavins...not blocks or bricks, let me know if or where you find Soy Wax in bulk.

Copied and reposted:
http://resources.metapress.com/pdf-preview.axd?code=u1160875v7434113&size=large

SG

Gewehr98
October 18, 2008, 02:17 PM
Hwy 12, Sauk City, WI.

I'm driving through there tomorrow. The lady makes candles from the stuff. I'll get her business card and post the info here.

If she's not open, there's even one just down the street from my house:

http://wisconsin.kudzu.com/merchant/16655665.html

This is nothing new in the BP world. Petroleum-based lube is widely considered incompatible with real BP because of the tarry fouling it creates upon combustion. Whether it's BP cartridge, front-stuffer, or cap n' ball, you'll still have that lube pill situated squarely in the combustion process - not good.

Some would argue that the crude oil hydrocarbon content has been safely removed from paraffin wax, rendering it closer to beeswax with respect to chemical composition. Since paraffin wax varies greatly in quality and composition depending on where and when one buys it, I'd skip the heartache totally.

Smokin_Gun
October 19, 2008, 03:01 AM
Well Gewehr98 I'll have to strongly disagree with you as the parafin wax I buy is from Stator Brothers Grocery store in the foods section. It causes no problems for me or anyone who uses or has used lube pills over the past years. Why would you make such an aligation if you haven't even tested them yourself?

I go along with you this far, but that's it...how do you know I'm not selling these lube pills to cloth and feed my 9 children and 3 wives?
Some would argue that the crude oil hydrocarbon content has been safely removed from paraffin wax, rendering it closer to beeswax with respect to chemical composition.

Thanks for your thoughts anyway,
Lube Pills Rule!

SG

Gewehr98
October 19, 2008, 04:32 PM
I speak from my own experience, not by conjecture. I made the mistake of using a petroleum-based wax in my BP bullet lube mix about one year ago, and also used it for a lube pill underneath the 535gr Postell bullet, ahead of the overpowder wad. It was pure hell getting the tarry residue out of my 32" barrel, and as soon as I talked to my other BPCR buddies about it, they chastised me for even thinking about doing so in the first place. Drilling deeper (ala' Google) into the BP community, they emphatically warn against using petroleum-based lubes with Holy Black. I just wish I'd known that before I tried it.

Food-grade paraffin wax, like the stuff my mom used to make freezer jelly and jam, may indeed be modified enough from crude oil to not foul the bore. Wax is, after all, a hydrocarbon, regardless of which critter it came from. Maybe I got a bad batch, who knows?

Shotgun Willy
October 19, 2008, 07:12 PM
A thought just struck me, as I was reading Gewehr's post. While paraffin is a petroleum by-product, I'm thinking if there was any actual petroleum left in it, it wouldn't be approved for food contact. Or am I overlooking something?

rjsixgun
October 19, 2008, 08:36 PM
paraffin wax does not make a good lube with black powder. You might not notice it as much with a pistol, but in muskets and rifles you will definatly see more leading in your barrel and your fouling will be hard and cake'y. Bees Wax and crisco will keep your fouling soft, and you'll have little to No leading in your barrel.

If you look at SPG or any other comercial "BLACK POWDER" lube you will find none are made with paraffin, But All are made with Bees wax. Yes Bees Wax cost more but it also works as a lube, I dought SPG would be so popular if it were made with inferior waxes like paraffin.

50/50 Bees wax and Crisco (Olive Oil, or any other natural cooking oil may be used inplace of Crisco).

This is the best home made lube I have found in 15 years.

N-SSA Member

Gewehr98
October 19, 2008, 09:17 PM
It's a poor lube for BP, but perhaps in the short length of a cap n' ball pistol, it's out the muzzle before it can really gum things up?

I won't ever use paraffin wax again in my Sharps, nor my Hawken. I've got a bunch of real beeswax for those guns now, and have learned my lesson - albeit the hard way. :o

dwave
October 19, 2008, 11:35 PM
I don't believe that the Paraffin is used to lube, I think it is added to stiffen. The crisco, bore butter, olive oil, ect is used for the lube.

rjsixgun
October 20, 2008, 12:02 AM
Like I said you might not notice it in your pistol, but I sure did.
I tried paraffin /crisco 1 time, it wasnt lube (to me), hard as heck and glogged the bore of my 1858. Also, for some reason I cant explane, when melted together it looked fine, but when it cooled it separated and was not consistant. the paraffin and crisco didnt bond like it should.

But dont take my word for it, try it your self. Make a small batch and use it on your next shooting outing. It wont "HURT" your gun, but you will notice the differance and you probably wont try it again.

I even tried bacon fat and paraffin.........the ants loved it! but my gun hated it.

If you as me 50/50 Beeswax/Criso will be my answer everytime

Bore butter is nice, but to loose, to expencive and wont hold up on a hot July day.

dwave
October 20, 2008, 12:04 AM
No, I mean adding the bore butter to the beeswax, instead of crisco. My opinion, crisco is cheaper and just as good as a lube.

Gewehr98
October 20, 2008, 12:17 AM
was a combination of paraffin wax, lard, and Crisco. I believe the brand of paraffin wax was Gulf Brand, I got it from my mom's stash that she normally used for her freezer jam.

Now I use beeswax, lard, and Crisco. The blend is soft enough to go through my Lyman 45 lubrisizer, and I can cut lube pills with a punch after I pour a thin sheet of the stuff and let it harden. I have a pronounced lube star on the rifle's muzzle after just one round fired, and the BP fouling inside stays nice and soft.

Smokin_Gun
October 20, 2008, 12:53 AM
But dont take my word for it, try it your self. Make a small batch and use it on your next shooting outing. It wont "HURT" your gun, but you will notice the differance and you probably wont try it again.


RjsSixgun...ya really ought read the whole thread before making statements about something you haven't tried, instead of having us try something you made a mess with.

The waxes carry the lube with I use that is Olive/Soy Oil Bolwax or Beeswax work just fine along with parafin to not only carry the lube but stiffen the Pills in 115F degree climates...you take a pill with crisco mix it'll last maybe 10-15 minutes out of a cooler. My lube pills last all day no problem no waxing of the barrels from 4 5/8" to 12" barrels fouling stays soft, barrels clean. A patch will clean the barrel with no wax residue.
So why do people try to find something wrong with what one does and gives freely to anyone that wants it...what the hell is wrong with people lately.
Why do I even bother. Open yur damn minds and maybe just maybe your hearts will follow.

Later Forum, I'll be at Voy.com/60048/

Smokin' Gun
BPR Admin

rjsixgun
October 20, 2008, 01:12 AM
Same to you Smokin_Gun, you should read befor you write!

Like I said earlier, "you might not notice it in your pistol" key words

and yes I have tried it.....you would have noticed that too, if you read better, but you didnt.

No big deal

but thanks for jumping down my throat

your way works for you, and my way works for me......Correct??

so who is wong? I dont see that anyone is wrong. do you?

Maybe you should write to SPG and tell them there totally wrong about there lube too............

Smokin_Gun
October 20, 2008, 01:24 AM
My Lube Pills are strictly for revolvers... If you think I jumped down your throat you are mistaken...but I am about to though. So I'm gonna STFU before I do and suggest you do the same before we both get banned.

Thanks a Bunch,

SG

rjsixgun
October 20, 2008, 01:41 AM
Still dont see any reason..............but hey its forgotton

and as for STFU??? well that's just not civil. Unless I'm wrong and that is a sign of friendship. Then please excuse me. Thank you, STFU to you too. My age prevents me from keeping up with all the latest internet lingo.

But honestly, I enjoyed you meathod of cutting your pills, I found it interesting. I like lube pills and lubed wads, both meathods work. I am glad that you found your proven method, as did I.

Good luck with your Pistol shooting. My you have many X rings in your future.

BHP FAN
October 20, 2008, 03:09 AM
We call 'em ''grease cookies'' and use them in our .45-70's.Mines an 1884 trapdoor I down load to approximate the original carbine load,and my buddy uses them in his original catridge conversion Shaps.

WARDER
October 20, 2008, 07:22 AM
bhp fan--- are you not talking about a wax disc between two cardboard discs for using in your trapdoor.

Smokin_Gun
October 21, 2008, 03:47 AM
BHP FAN
Yup they are also known to me as Grease Cookies and work well in Trap Doors with out Waxin' the barrels usin' a specific recipe. They work in Front Stuffers too in a paper cartridge if done right. Fill the barrels with scaldin' hot soapy water and scrub with a tigon tube hooked to the Cone in a bucket of same scaldin' water and scrub with a nylon shotgun brush and it all but drys itself clean form the heat. No resdidue...
I like the cookie/pills and know how to make as now I know you do...I don't feel so all alone thanks...HeeHee!


SG

Smokin_Gun
October 21, 2008, 03:53 AM
We call 'em ''grease cookies'' and use them in our .45-70's.


BHP FAN,
Yup they are also known to me as Grease Cookies and work well in Trap Doors with out Waxin' the barrels usin' a specific recipe. They work in Front Stuffers too in a paper cartridge if done right. Fill the barrels with scaldin' hot soapy water and scrub with a tygon tube hooked to the Cone in a bucket of same scaldin' water and scrub with a nylon shotgun brush and it all but drys itself clean from the heat. No resdidue...
I like the cookie/pills and know how to make as now I know you do...I don't feel so all alone thanks...HeeHee!


Smokin' Gun

BHP FAN
October 21, 2008, 04:07 AM
I even have a ruined .45 case and a nail made into a tool for punching out the cookies...I'm ''willyboy'' SASS 38375.

Smokin_Gun
October 21, 2008, 05:48 PM
Got ya Willyboy read of you Pard.:cool:

SG

BHP FAN
October 24, 2008, 12:29 PM
If I had to break down my recipe for grease cookies,I'd guess it to be about 70% beeswax,20% Crisco,5% Bore Butter.It's hard to be precise,because I ''fine tune'' [mess with] the mix until it has just the right color,smell,and consistancy.I pour the melted mix into a pie pan [Marie Calender's Lemon Merange works best] until it's about 1/4 to 5/16'' deep.Let cool.Then I use my home made cartridge case/cookie punch to make my ''cookies'' with.

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