Wolf, Barnual, Silver Bear


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Bartkowski
October 9, 2008, 11:58 AM
How do the three compare for .223? I have some silver bear and know it runs fine in my AR but have not used wolf or barnual. It will be about $.30 for the barnual, $.26 for the silver bear, and $.27 for the wolf. I have heard good things about barnual but have no experience with it so all input is appreciated.

ETA: It appears the silver bear I am looking at is made by barnual....so no its between wolf black box and silver bear.

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Acheron
October 9, 2008, 12:29 PM
I haven't shot any steel-cased .223 but I've had good experiences with Barnaul/Bear ammo in 7.62x39. From what I understand the Barnaul ammo is generally up to mil-spec whereas the Bear ammo is not (but still good stuff). That is supposed to be the reason why Barnaul is more expensive, even though they are both steel-cased and made at the same plant by the same company.

I've had mixed results with Wolf. Go with the Barnual/Bear.

Rubber_Duck
October 9, 2008, 01:09 PM
+1 for Barnaul. I use it in my SKS where it is noticeably more accurate than Wolf.

But since you're asking for .223, the only steel-cased .223 I've ran through my AR was Wolf. Ran fine by the way, no jams or FTE.

Bartkowski
October 9, 2008, 01:44 PM
I understand the Barnaul ammo is generally up to mil-spec whereas the Bear ammo is not

Do you have a source? And is the quality the same? I don't it to be as fast as all mil-spec ammo, just "quality" steel case ammo.

MD_Willington
October 9, 2008, 02:21 PM
I do not have a chronograph, but all 3 work just fine in my Saiga .223

Picard
October 9, 2008, 02:56 PM
I have only used my AR once so far and the 50 or so rounds of Bear ammo that I used worked great. For plinking, I don't see a point in not using steel cased ammo unless you reload.

KBintheSLC
October 9, 2008, 04:14 PM
Barnaul ammo is generally up to mil-spec whereas the Bear ammo is not

Silver/Brown Bear is made by Barnaul at the same factory on the same tools... its the same stuff.
Wolf is from a different factory and a bit lower in quality. It still goes bang in my AK, but the Barnaul stuff seems cleaner and more consistent.

Bartkowski
October 9, 2008, 04:25 PM
Looks like I will be buying more silver bear then. Maybe I will pick up some boxes of wolf with 75gr bullets just to try them.

wally
October 9, 2008, 09:26 PM
The Silver Bear shoots fine, but in Houston's heat and humidity, the zinc coating oxidizes rather quickly leaving a white powder on the cases. No issues with them so far but I try to stick with the Barnaul or Brown Bear unless I am sure I can shoot them up in a couple of months.

I just ordered a couple hundred of rounds of the new 75gr Wolf after reading a favorable review in Shotgun News, not match ammo but supposed to be significantly better than the average Wolf.

--wally.

Bartkowski
October 9, 2008, 09:43 PM
When you go to shoot the 75gr ammo let me know how it shoots.

xkalifornian
October 9, 2008, 09:49 PM
Is the steel case bad in any way for your AR?

Bartkowski
October 9, 2008, 09:53 PM
Some say it is, others say it isn't. I don't think it is because the steel used is so soft and I have not had problems. There are some downsides to steel cased ammo though. It is usually less consistent than brass ammo, and if you shoot brass ammo after steel ammo you might run into problems feeding.

Double Naught Spy
October 11, 2008, 11:27 PM
How will changing from steel cased ammo to brass cased ammo affect feeding?

rangerruck
October 11, 2008, 11:38 PM
brass is much easier on the ar parts, simple as that. Big John from ammunitiontogo.com has told me that of the three , the silver bear should be a tad better; not that it is more consistent or hotter than other Barnaul ammo, but simply because of the zinc coating is better than lacquer, which I believe.
both are hotter, and a bit more consistent for velocity spread , than wolf.
However, Wolf has gotten better over the last two years, and they are still improving.
I myself get excellent results, with a variety of weapons, with silver bear in all 3 that I use; 223, 762.39, and x54R.

Bartkowski
October 11, 2008, 11:48 PM
How will changing from steel cased ammo to brass cased ammo affect feeding?

Some people have problems when shooting steel case first then brass because the steel case ammo will leave to chamber dirty. Then when they shoot the brass ammo it won't chamber fully. I usually won't mix ammo so I haven't had a problem.

Double Naught Spy
October 12, 2008, 12:59 AM
brass is much easier on the ar parts, simple as that.

You know, I have spoken to two gunsmiths about the supposed horrors of steel on steel and neither have said that that seen the problems people post about, such as additional extractor wear. So I don't see how this would, in the least, create feeding problems.

Some people have problems when shooting steel case first then brass because the steel case ammo will leave to chamber dirty. Then when they shoot the brass ammo it won't chamber fully. I usually won't mix ammo so I haven't had a problem.

So you are just saying that some of the steel cased ammo is dirtier, dirties the chamber more or quicker, and hence brass wont feed as well into the chamber. So this is a problem simply rectified by cleaning. This makes more sense than the wear and tear theory, although I am having trouble comprehending how it is that steel ammo will feed better in a dirty chamber than brass...but maybe it does.

Domino
October 12, 2008, 01:38 AM
Barnaul, Silver Bear, Brown Bear, Golden Bear are all made by the Barnual tool plant from what I know. I think Wolf is made by Tula or something.

The Barnaul tends to be much more consistant and powerful in my experience, particularly with .223. I have some Barnaul 62 grain soft point that shoots over 3,000 fps in a 20" barrel and ~1 MOA, way better than any Wolf I have tried. Wolf is what I get now, since Barnaul is harder to find but I keep my Barnaul stocked!

Domino
October 12, 2008, 01:39 AM
Double Post!

Domino
October 12, 2008, 01:43 AM
Triple Post!

Rifleman 173
October 12, 2008, 02:22 AM
Wolf Polymer works great in all 4 of my ARs. No trouble at all.

High Planes Drifter
October 12, 2008, 02:33 AM
Is the steel case bad in any way for your AR?

Some say its harder on the extractor. I havent experienced any problems. I've shot it for years now. I , personally, think the steel case is soft enough that it doesnt add any more significant wear to the AR extractor.

rangerruck
October 12, 2008, 04:57 AM
wolf is serbian, barnaul , I believe, is just the barnaul /jsc plant, the others, I am not sure. but if you go to their site, they have 3 diff plants, the other two seem modern, in modern cities. The Barnaul plant still seems to be a bit shrouded in russian mystery and scariness; they don't say a city, or many in ways or out to the plant, that is remote, etc.

rob_s
October 12, 2008, 10:17 AM
Lets assume, for a second, that steel-cased ammo destroys extractors. Totally causes them to vaporize and vanish from existance.

At what interval would you say this might happen? Once every 5,000 rounds? Once every 2,000? Once every 1,000?

Let's be pessimistic and say once every 1,000 rounds.

Given that a case of Wolf is nearly half what a case of XM193 goes for, even if you bought a new extractor (a $5 part) with every case of Wolf you'd still be well ahead financially.

Frankly, even if the Wolf caused your entire BCG to vaporize youd still be ahead.

For those buying the Barnaul/Silver Bear, where are you getting it from right now and at what price? Wolf 55 and 62 grain is up to $270/shipped at ammoman and I'd like to find something cheaper.

woof
October 12, 2008, 12:19 PM
I've used Bernaul Brown Bear x39 and .223 with zero problems with either.

jdc1244
October 12, 2008, 12:30 PM
The Silver Bear shoots fine, but in Houston's heat and humidity, the zinc coating oxidizes rather quickly leaving a white powder on the cases.

Itís as hot and as humid here and Iíve not noticed that problem with Barnaul zinc plated ammo, which I would recommend.

natescout
October 12, 2008, 12:42 PM
my ar eats all three brands just fine, i just have to clean a little longer thats all

wcwhitey
October 12, 2008, 01:09 PM
For years I was buying the Barnaul and Brown Bear cheaper than the Wolf, now it all runs about the same, pennies is usually the difference. I will say that for the same price or close I would give the Barnaul and Brown Bear (same thing) the nod. I just really don't like Wolf, I haver never had any issues with a Barnaul product, cannot say that with the Wolf. I store SS109 and M80 Ball, I shoot Brown Bear 62 Grain HP and 145 FMJ, both shoot exactly the same POA/POI as their brass counterparts.

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