anyopne from utah want to give this ladya piece of their mind?


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raz-0
September 12, 2003, 02:57 PM
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/09/11/earlyshow/contributors/tracysmith/main572727.shtml

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(CBS) Utah recently passed a law allowing licensed gun owners to carry concealed weapons at schools. Backers say it could make schools safer, but opponents say they couldn't be more wrong. CBS News Correspondent Tracy Smith reports.

The image of the Columbine High School massacre is still lingers in our consciousness: A school under attacked by murderous student gunmen. But in some communities, a scenario like Columbine could have a very different ending.

Natalie Aposhian is a teacher. But if armed intruders threaten her class, there's a good chance that they'll fail.

Aposhian says, “If it came to protecting myself and protecting my kids, it would stop in my classroom. It wouldn’t be going from class to class to class and randomly shooting children.”

Sue Dickey, another teacher, asks then: “What would the mode be, everybody?”

Dickey shares Aposhian’s concerns about classroom safety, but she says that more guns on campus won't necessarily add up to more security.

“Before, I never worried about a gun in school - even a colleague with a gun - but now with the likelihood of guns being here, there could be more accidents. There's more opportunity for accidents to happen. So no, I don't feel safer,” Dickey says.

Don't expect to see teachers cruising the halls with pistol belts: in Utah, guns must be carried concealed at all times. And to Aposhian, that's really the point.

Aposhian says, “It's called concealed for a reason. So whether I have it or not, that's up to what you think. I'm not going to tell you.”

Supporters of this law say it's a deterrent because a kid might not want to bring a gun to school if he thinks the teachers are packing.

But Dickey notes, “There would be kids who want to get in a shootout. There are police-assisted suicides, why not teacher-assisted suicides?”

In some teachers' minds, the real question is not about carrying a gun; it's about being ready to use it.

Dickey says, “I would like to defend my students, but I could not bring myself to shoot another perso,n especially a student.” Even if that person was threatening her students? “I don't think I could. I really don't think I could,” she says.

Face with the same situation, Aposhia says, “I think it would be really hard. You probably would have that personal connection with that child; you also have a personal connection with the other kids who are in that classroom as well. I think if push came to shove, if you have to protect those other kids, you probably would. As hard as that might be, you probably would.”


Dickey notes, “I understand some people are concerned about their safety and the safety of their students. But I'm in the field of teaching children to solve problems, and I don't want to solve problems with a gun.”

The Utah Supreme Court recently upheld a ban on guns at universities, so gun-control advocates are hoping they can use that ruling to overturn this law.

© MMIII, CBS Broadcasting Inc. All Rights Reserved.

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Henry Bowman
September 12, 2003, 03:03 PM
Overall, a very good article. Balanced, maybe even a bit pro.

Double Maduro
September 12, 2003, 03:11 PM
Balanced article based on the equally good arguments of two caring educators.

Remember, it is a right, not a requirement.


DM

jsalcedo
September 12, 2003, 03:49 PM
Dickey says, “I would like to defend my students, but I could not bring myself to shoot another perso,n especially a student.” Even if that person was threatening her students? “I don't think I could. I really don't think I could,” she says.

These people have been watching way too many "Lifetime network dramas".

Lets rephrase what Dickey says.

I would like to be an effective person but I am way too much of a coward
and have no regard for the life of my students.

These people should not be teachers.

I wonder what in the bloody hell this person would do during a fire evacuation?... Knock her students down and clamor for the nearest exit in a blind panic?

El Tejon
September 12, 2003, 03:55 PM
Skulteekurs like Dickey, Reason #238 while government schools should be abolished.

Baba Louie
September 12, 2003, 04:20 PM
Hey,

They're being paid to teach OK? Nowhere in their contract does it say (I presume) they're responsible for the safety of the students if a gunman or terror type decides to stalk the hallowed halls of education.
Should someone have a CCW, then I would think that that teacher would do what he/she could to protect her own life in self defense and as a result might protect the students.

I know a lot of people I admire and respect who have a real problem grasping the concept of fighting, let alone taking someone's life. That's their take on the subject. No need to belittle them.

My daughter had a BMY stick a gun in her face (and her friends face as well.. and yes he held it sideways) to rob them. Would she have a problem with self defense? Before that incident, oh yeah. Afterwards, she said she'd do him first if given half a chance, even if she had to make that chance. Bold talk from an 18 year old female (who, by the way, is a pretty good shot with her .22) who has been the victim of a punk with a gun. But

I believe her.

I'm glad Utah has the provision for authorized(?) carry in their schools...

If it saves one child life... it'll be worth it to that kids parents, while others will wet their pants knowing that some bad guy, maybe another teen, got kilt in my kids school today.

Sheep don't have fangs.

Some teachers I've met (mostly male, one or two female) do, would and will protect that which is necessary. AT UNLV's last graduation 3/4 of the education degrees went to females, most of whom would shudder to even read 1/10 of the posts on THR (I reckon)

My ex works for the CCSD and she knows of at least two teachers who carry a surprise in their purses. If they're ever ratted out, they're toast. But they are ready.

Such is life. Some for it, some agin it.

Adios

tetchaje1
September 12, 2003, 04:20 PM
The Utah Supreme Court recently upheld a ban on guns at universities, so gun-control advocates are hoping they can use that ruling to overturn this law.

This is horsecrap!!!

It was a District Court judge ruling against the legislature's statutory law that says otherwise, and the decision is either going to be appealed, reversed by the legislature, or both. The Utah Supreme Court has had NOTHING to due with the decision, as we are still two levels of appeals away from that point.

Lies and damn lies... :fire:

Standing Wolf
September 12, 2003, 05:22 PM
Leftist extremists never tire of talking about all the terrible, bad, evil, wicked, awful, deathly, vicious things that might happen if ordinary law-abiding American citizens carry firearms; you'll notice, however, they never talk about the actual record: ordinary law-abiding American citizens who carry concealed firearms hardly ever commit crimes with them.

raz-0
September 12, 2003, 06:02 PM
This is horsecrap!!! It was a District Court judge ruling against the legislature's statutory law that says otherwise, and the decision is either going to be appealed, reversed by the legislature, or both. The Utah Supreme Court has had NOTHING to due with the decision, as we are still two levels of appeals away from that point. Lies and damn lies...

yeah actually it was that last bit that bugged me, but I forgot the details, that's why I was looking for someone in the know... figured someone in utah might be able to help.


Thing is it's fair and balanced.. right up till the end.

Quartus
September 12, 2003, 06:21 PM
Balanced article based on the equally good arguments of two caring educators.


"...but now with the likelihood of guns being here, there could be more accidents. There's more opportunity for accidents to happen. So no, I don't feel safer,”


:confused:


"Equally good"???


BTW, I'm much less interested in how much they care than in what their principles are.


We've got way too many 'caring' idiots in this country, and lot of them are in teaching.


Guess I'd make a lousy liberal.

JohnKSa
September 12, 2003, 11:44 PM
They're being paid to teach OK? Nowhere in their contract does it say (I presume) they're responsible for the safety of the students if a gunman or terror type decides to stalk the hallowed halls of education.
Just a question, but don't teachers have some sort of temporary guardianship (in the legal sense) over the kids in their classes. If that's true, what sort of responsibility would that entail?

Dogsoldier
September 13, 2003, 12:19 AM
I like the idea that teachers and other responsible adults can be allowed to carry in schools. The motivating factor for a teacher may be to save her/hos pwn life, but you can't tell me that teachers don't get attached to thier kids, particularly the little ones. My wife taught K, 1st and 2nd. And let me tell you, mess with one of those kids and you would have thought you tangled with a momma bear protecting her cubs. Before wwe were married, she actually attacked a pervert that tried to grab one of the kids in her 1st grade class. Screaming and growling like a banshee, she jumped on the perv's back and wacked him in the in the head with a rock! More than a few times so I hear. That's my gal. :D All 5' 3" 120 pounds.

back to the subject. Every teacher in American should go through at the very least firearms familiarization. And the ones who want it, should be allowed to carry. Isreali teachers are armed. No one has taken an Isreali school hostage in a long time.

Goet
September 13, 2003, 04:28 AM
Don't expect to see teachers cruising the halls with pistol belts: in Utah, guns must be carried concealed at all times.

False!

BigG
September 13, 2003, 06:03 AM
On the flip side, you've gotta figure that, verbal masturbators as most all journalists are, the news would dry up so fast their head would swim if no more shootings/robberies/rapes occurred because the goblins were afraid of possibly armed victims. The sleazeball journalists who never bat an eye when reporting crime would be out of a job, therefore, they have a vested interest in the status quo. If I thought like that, I too would wet my pants at the thought of armed citizenry. I'd soon lose my cushy job! :what: :uhoh: :scrutiny:

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