Retired Officer Carry


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havoc7usmc
October 10, 2008, 12:22 AM
:confused:What can a retired LEO do to get the FID card, required to carry across state lines If the department doesn't have the facility's or desire to issue one.

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dogrunner
October 10, 2008, 12:49 AM
Unfortunately there's no requirement in LEOSA mandating an agency issue the required ID. That said, likely the best solution is to play the political card............contact the mayor, various commissioners (selectmen?), or various influential folks in your community and explain what the benefits are to the community as well as the individual retiree.

Familiarize yourself intimately with the law as its structured and be sure that you DO qualify..........there is no reason for any agency to deny a duly qualified retiree that meets the standard, but there is also no requirement for them to do so unless your individual State requires it, some do, most leave the matter to the descretion of the individual agency. I'd suggest that if your department has a union or FOP membership, then that might be a good pressure vehicle to utilize also.

Pilgrim
October 10, 2008, 01:57 AM
I retired from a sheriff's department in California. The Sheriff wouldn't issue me one because the Sheriff's Association was waiting for the state Attorney General to decide the guidelines. The Attorney General decided enabling legislation was necessary before he could issue guidelines. As far as I know, everyone is still waiting for the legislature to decide what to do.

I live in Idaho, and fortunately the state came up with guidelines. The county sheriff doesn't want to conduct the annual firearms qualification for retirees, but is willing to accept qualification certification from NRA certified instructors. It is pretty much a straight forward process. Shoot the qualification course. Submit the qualification certificate along with a notarized application, pay $25 for a new license or $17 for a renewal. The Sheriff runs a background check and in one week the retiree has his retired peace officer's CCW license.

If you are retired from a department in Vermont, I suggest you see if your department's officer's bargaining unit will take up your cause.

If not, see if the Chief or Sheriff will accept a range certification from a NRA certified instructor.

Pilgrim

havoc7usmc
October 11, 2008, 11:53 AM
I retired from DHS/CBP and they say "No way". I was an Immigration Officer before the hostile take over by Customs, since then we have had to play by the Customs Firearms regulations. You may not believe this, but we are forbidden to use our duty firearm for practice, even if we purchase our own ammunition. The only time we can use our firearm is during qual or in the line of duty. When we were under Immigration it was policy and encouraged to use your duty firearm for competition and practice, they even issued practice ammo back then. We often where called upon to dispatch wounded and suffering animals on the side of the road. Not any more!. Since we are in Vermont, it's safer to carry your own firearm off duty and follow the civil law, which CBP say's they can not infringe on....thank God. I know of a few NY State officer's that when to other departments to get their FID's, hence, I'll take your advice and see if the local's will do it.
Thanks for your reply. Stay safe.

Semper Fi

Pilgrim
October 11, 2008, 12:59 PM
Good luck.

Pilgrim

ilbob
October 11, 2008, 01:04 PM
The county sheriff doesn't want to conduct the annual firearms qualification for retirees, but is willing to accept qualification certification from NRA certified instructors.

Is the NRA instructor going to test the retired officer to the standard required by the law?

csmkersh
October 11, 2008, 03:47 PM
I wasn't aware that HR 218 set any standards. It certainly didn't make any agency responsible for its administration nor have the CFRs laid out any guidance.

If "your" agency is issuing ID/cards, consider yourself fortunate.

texfed
October 11, 2008, 04:02 PM
Hey, guys....I think it's up to your state....not the department!

I recently retired from 30 years in USDOJ service and all I needed was my official LEO retired ID, a letter from my supevisor saying I didn't retire under adverse conditions and all the usual state packet stuff. On the Texas form you check 'retired federal agent' (in my case) or 'retired LEO' and $25 and that was it.
I assume we're talking about LEOSA, right?

Zwetschgen
October 11, 2008, 04:07 PM
I may be wrong about retired police officers... but didn't Bush pass a law that allowed officers to carry concealed without a permit?

ilbob
October 11, 2008, 04:13 PM
I wasn't aware that HR 218 set any standards.

see bolded

during the most recent 12-month period, has
met, at the expense of the individual, the
State’s standards for training and qualification
for active law enforcement officers to
carry firearms

i suppose if the state's standard allowed for some kind of private certification, that would meet the requiremnt, but AFAIK, no state does this.

texfed
October 11, 2008, 04:13 PM
Your right, but I know of two circumstances that involved retired LEOs given a had time at road blocks....even with proper ID. No Charges were filed in either case.
But it wouldn't have happened with a CHL.

csmkersh
October 11, 2008, 04:14 PM
texfed, it sounds like you applied for a Texas CHL for retired LEOs. That's not the same thing as a permit/ID issued under HB 218. A Texas retired officers permit only covers you in states that honer Texas' CHL. A 218 is anywhere, even NYC, but who willingly goes there?

Urbana John
October 11, 2008, 04:22 PM
I agree with Zwetschgen, Bush signed a bill allowing retired LEO's to carry conceled in all 50 States.
Although I'm not a LEO, but that's my understanding.

csmkersh
October 11, 2008, 04:38 PM
The bill Bush signed was HB 218 and it requires some agency to take action. The FBI and SS issue cards to their own retired agents, but not to locals. Some states have taken steps to implement 218 but most/all have left it to the local PD/Sheriff's department to work out the actual details on what qualifications are required other than honorably retired.

M203Sniper
October 11, 2008, 07:55 PM
Suffer like the rest of us or work to change that awful law. :barf:

Speedo66
October 11, 2008, 08:29 PM
The way I read the retired LEO section in HR218, and it applies soon to me, is that your agency has to qualify you every year in retirement. Mine does not at this point, and I doubt it ever will.

Pilgrim
October 11, 2008, 10:06 PM
Is the NRA instructor going to test the retired officer to the standard required by the law?
My sheriff considers the course the NRA instructors are offering here as meeting the state requirement.
The way I read the retired LEO section in HR218, and it applies soon to me, is that your agency has to qualify you every year in retirement.
The agency that you retired from, or the chief law enforcement officer in the town you have residence.

Pilgrim

tpaw
October 11, 2008, 11:48 PM
Here is the HR 218 law.

http://www.leaa.org/218/218text.html

Steve in PA
October 12, 2008, 01:48 AM
You still have to meet the firearms qualification standards (if any) of the dept you retired from or the state you currently reside in.

As already stated, many depts refuse to do this, so the officers are stuck. You can keep searching and hope to find a dept willing to qualify you.

Sadly, many that refuse do so because they fear they will somehow be held liable in a shooting. Of course they will not be liable, but try convincing them of that.

Speedo66
October 12, 2008, 10:21 AM
I just read the section on retired officers , and it is very clear. You must have an ID stating you were trained within the year issued BY the agency you retired from, or the same statement issued BY the state.

There is no mention of any other certificate being acceptable.

As far as liability for your agency in training you: maybe it won't hold up in court, but you can be quite sure that the attorney representing the person you shot, if they decides to sue, will use the shotgun approach and sue anybody and anything he or she can think of, including the agency who trained you.

The answer that he must have been well trained because he hit the target he aimed at will not surfeit. :rolleyes:

Steve in PA
October 12, 2008, 11:07 AM
All the agency is doing is stating; you passed a qualification course. Nothng more.

If they were to be held liable, then so would every state that requires a citizen to pass a CCW course.

Speedo66
October 12, 2008, 04:52 PM
Every lawyer thinks municipalities have deep pockets and would find any excuse to sue one. Not that there's anything wrong with lawyers..........

The fact that the training must be done by the agency puts them in the forefront.

Steve in PA
October 12, 2008, 06:19 PM
There is no training, only qualification. Some depts have mandated firearm safety, deadly force, etc.....but none of that was required by the bill. The only thing that was required was the passing of a qualification course.

Of course fear of being sued has added all the other crap as well as some depts flat out refusing to qualify anyone.

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