30.06 pressure question


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the rifleer
October 10, 2008, 10:13 AM
Is there any pressure difference or powder load difference of 30.06 ammo made in the 1920's and 30's compared to modern day ammo?

thanks,
the rifleer.

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PointOneSeven
October 10, 2008, 12:34 PM
I was reading up on it a bit and it sounds like they've played with the velocities and bullet weights, as well as changing the jacket on the rounds since then.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.30-06_Springfield

Find a stash of old ammo?

USSR
October 10, 2008, 01:54 PM
rifleer,

There won't be alot of maximum pressure difference between the two. But, the powder used in modern .30-06 ammo would tend to be slower burning, hence pressure at the muzzle would likely be higher.

Don

rcmodel
October 10, 2008, 02:04 PM
I might be more concerned about the quality of the brass made back then.

And the corrosive priming used back then.

rcmodel

JesseL
October 10, 2008, 06:17 PM
With a few exceptions for a handful of autoloaders like the M1 Garand, I'd bet that virtually any rifle chambered by the factory for .30-06 can handle virtually any .30-06 ammunition on the market.

The autoloaders that may have problems, will probably have more issues with the pressure curve of modern propellants being incompatible with their gas systems than any problems with the absolute strength of their actions.

Vern Humphrey
October 10, 2008, 06:29 PM
I've heard modern 30.06's can take a higher pressure and that many bullet makers have increased the pressure. But that's something I read in a thread. Take it with a grain of salt.

Bullet makers cannot increase pressure -- bullets don't have pressure. Ammunition makers can increase the pressure of their cartridges, and that pressure can drive the bullet at a higher velocity.

SAAMI (Sporting Arms and Ammunition Makers Institute) is the repository for standards for weapons and ammunition. SAAMI pressures for .30-06 have not changed in many years -- and are a bit lower than more modern ammo, probably in deference to some old, creaky rifles out there.

But note that virtually any modern rifle you can buy in .30-06 can also be had in .300 Winchester Magnum -- and the SAAMI standard for the .300 WM is about 10% higher than for .30-06.

In addition, the .300 WM has a larger head (0.532" versus 0.473") which means it exerts much more thrust against the locking lugs.

So, yeah, the .30-06 can be loaded to higher pressures than the standard.

the rifleer
October 11, 2008, 01:23 AM
actually the reason im asking is because a friend has an old 30.06 made in in the 1930's and was wondering if modern ammo is safe for it. the rifle is in really good shape, but i dont want to do anything with it that is wasnt designed to do.

shinz
October 11, 2008, 04:06 AM
I would have thought the answer is yes, it would be OK, other than for the likes of light magnum loads & such like & even then, if its loaded to SAAMI specs it should still be OK. If your friend is in any doubt he could get a gunsmith to check headspace & overall functioning but I cannot think of any rifle of that era in that caliber which shouldn't be OK with factory loads at least. Hotrodded handloads, now that might be another story but only in the interests of caution & wisdom. What sort of rifle is it?
Steve

Vern Humphrey
October 11, 2008, 10:08 AM
a friend has an old 30.06 made in in the 1930's and was wondering if modern ammo is safe for it.
I hunt with a Model 70 Winchester that was made in 1939, and a custom Springfield (in .35 Brown-Whelen) that was made a decade earlier.

Art Eatman
October 11, 2008, 04:38 PM
Back when it was pounds/square-inch, before Copper Units of Pressure, the '06 generally was loaded to 47,000 psi because of the old low-number Springfields still around. Civilian '06 rifles have always been safe in the 50,000 psi range and upward.

The double-heat-treat Springfields, the Enfields and Mausers have always been okay for modern loadings.

SFAIK, since somewhere in the 1960s or 1970s, all commercial '06 ammo has been loaded in keeping with modern standards of roughly 55,000 psi or whatever that is in CUP. Roughly.

Vern Humphrey
October 11, 2008, 04:45 PM
Back when it was pounds/square-inch, before Copper Units of Pressure

Other way around -- Copper Units of Pressure were used with crusher gauges. Modern methods of measuring pressure directly, in pounds per square inch came later.

There is no forumla for translating CUP to PSI.

CB900F
October 11, 2008, 07:28 PM
Fella's;

And Speer #14, page 474 states that the industry maximum average pressure is 50,000 CUP. Several pages further on, the maximum average pressure listed for the .300 Winchester magnum is 54,000 CUP.

In general, it is my personal feeling that if you are at or near approaching 3000 fps muzzle velocity with a 150 grain bullet in the .30-06, you're at or very near max.

900F

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