VZ 58 VS galil


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pvtmcd
October 10, 2008, 12:31 PM
VZ 58 VS galil
If you'd kindly compare the two, I'd appreciate it.

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kb308
October 10, 2008, 12:41 PM
Accuracy: probably VZ58
Weight: DEFINATELY VZ58
Ruggedness: Probably Galil (although the VZ is quite rugged)
Reliability: Both are quite reliable, but I'd guess Galil because it's so close to the AK.

SimpleIsGood229
October 10, 2008, 12:52 PM
Are we talking about genuine IMI Galils, or are CAI Golanis, ORF Galils, and whatever else included?

If we're talking about IMI Galils, it seem to me that the choice between the Galil and Vz.58 would come down to personal preference (even though I'm sure nalioth is probably going to argue for the Vz.! ;))

nalioth
October 10, 2008, 01:23 PM
If we're talking about IMI Galils, it seem to me that the choice between the Galil and Vz.58 would come down to personal preference (even though I'm sure nalioth is probably going to argue for the Vz.! )

Vz58 is chambered for 7.62x39
Galil is chambered for .223/5.56x45

Vz58 weighs 2.91 kg (6.42 lb) empty.
Galil AR weighs 3.95 kg (8.71 lb) empty.

Vz58 is 861 mm (33.9 in) in length (US version)
Galil AR is 987 mm (38.9 in) in length.

Vz58 has 30 round magazine capacity (10 in neutered version). 30 round mags are aluminum.
Galil has 12, 35 and 50 round magazine capacity. Mags come in steel (12 & 50 rounders) and polymer (35 rounders).

I can only recommend the IMI Galils. Buying one from another source is a crapshoot.

If you can afford both, buy both. I prefer the light weight and small size and superior ergonomics of the Vz58.

There really is no comparison, imho. They are apples and oranges.

HorseSoldier
October 10, 2008, 01:51 PM
Like SimpleIsGood noted -- real Galil vs real vz.58 is a different topic than commercially available Galil vs vz.58 here in the US. For the latter, I'd vote for the 58.

PILMAN
October 10, 2008, 03:40 PM
that's a hard one, I don't have any opinions yet because I own a clone of a Galil and i'm buying a VZ58, i'll need an authentic Galil to be able to tell.

SaMx
October 10, 2008, 05:06 PM
I would go for th vz.58 because it's lighter and the action is unusual and interesting.

Evil Monkey
October 10, 2008, 06:05 PM
Both of them are not exactly note worthy rifles. But the fact that the vz58 is lighter and exhibits features desirable that the galil doesn't have makes the vz58, in my opinion, the better rifle.

Anything AK derived doesn't impress me, so the galil is no exception. With it's lack of a bolt catch, weight, backwards left side selector switch, rock in mag system, price per unit, it can't compete with the insane amount of modern designs with the same cost.

PILMAN
October 10, 2008, 06:18 PM
Both of them are not exactly note worthy rifles. But the fact that the vz58 is lighter and exhibits features desirable that the galil doesn't have makes the vz58, in my opinion, the better rifle.

Anything AK derived doesn't impress me, so the galil is no exception. With it's lack of a bolt catch, weight, backwards left side selector switch, rock in mag system, price per unit, it can't compete with the insane amount of modern designs with the same cost.

The VZ58 is not AK derived, it's completely different.

Evil Monkey
October 10, 2008, 08:29 PM
The VZ58 is not AK derived, it's completely different.

I know that. I was talking about the Galil.

stubbicatt
October 10, 2008, 10:52 PM
I know that. I was talking about the Galil.

I know that... (http://www.wavsource.com/snds_2008-10-04_1144546973690850/movies/pink_panther/return_pp_trouble.wav)

armoredman
October 11, 2008, 12:07 AM
I have never handled a Galil, so my opinion doesn't really count, but i will say my vZ-58 is outstanding, and beats many of the semi-auto military pattern rifles I have had.

pvtmcd
October 11, 2008, 11:17 AM
Thanks for all the info. I guess I'm more interested in the commercially available versions of these rifles.
It looks like I'll be getting a vz 58 when I get back home...

Artigas
October 11, 2008, 05:56 PM
I dunno... my opinion is essentially worthless, but just handling a Galil, it seems to fit. I can't really explain it. It just seems to all come together when you shoulder it. But maybe that's just me.

Ed DCB
October 11, 2008, 06:53 PM
Having used both, VZ 58.

Gunsby_Blazen
October 11, 2008, 07:04 PM
the VZ is freaking sweet!!!!
if I could, I would buy one myself

anymanusa
October 11, 2008, 08:06 PM
I voted VZ, if for nothing else (which there is plenty of), the round it fires is superior imo. I have very little desire for the .223 round, although it does have its place.

PILMAN
October 11, 2008, 08:37 PM
I voted VZ, if for nothing else (which there is plenty of), the round it fires is superior imo. I have very little desire for the .223 round, although it does have its place.

Galils are made in .308 as well.

nalioth
October 11, 2008, 10:09 PM
Galils are made in .308 as well. and 7.62x39, too.

Those were commercial offerings, and whole different beasts than the military accepted .223 Galils.

Wes Janson
October 12, 2008, 12:51 AM
Realistically though, on the current market between the Century .223 Galil and the VZ-58 offerings, there's no comparison at all. The VZ-58 is a far better rifle than the Century model.

Ash
October 12, 2008, 08:46 AM
Especially considering the vast difference in prices between a real Galil and the current ones.

Ash

gunnie
October 12, 2008, 12:17 PM
get a valmet...galil had to pay valmet royalties to begin mfg their AK. same are still <2K. or if that's too spendy, get the interordnance 2003C. hammer forged steyr chrome lined bbl. threaded AR birdcage flash hider. '74 series gas system. tapco anti slap trigger. QD combloc scope mount. the gas piston, the bolt, and the gas tube should be chromed also, but that is cheap/easy to remedy.

above some have noted a dislike for the kalashnikov system, and the 223, 5.56 caliber. both are designed as close quarters weapons.

~where most REAL WORLD fire fights take place~.

the mythical average shooter does well to hit the ground at 600 yards. so the caliber having a realistic 2-300yd ceiling is non-issue. as is the lack of accuracy in poorly fitted combloc iron. another consideration is that 223/5.56 ammo will be available in north america LONG after the other calibers have dried up.

but i'm guessing that private MCD has already figured this out in the sandbox. i'm sure he has seen more than one A4 rendered useless with dust/sand blockage. the AK is reliable as a claw hammer. that is the feature that has made it the best selling war toy on the planet. this is due to plenty of room for mung and spooh to move outta the way of the bolt and carrier. same is also the cause of mediocre of accuracy.

when i am forced to bet my assets on a rifle, i'll pick reliability as priority #1.

yes, i have semi's that are more accurate, AND shoot 7.62 nato. but for overall use in SHTF scenarios, the AK is hard to beat.

gunnie

nalioth
October 12, 2008, 12:29 PM
or if that's too spendy, get the interordnance 2003C. hammer forged steyr chrome lined bbl. threaded AR birdcage flash hider. '74 series gas system. tapco anti slap trigger. QD combloc scope mount. the gas piston, the bolt, and the gas tube should be chromed also, but that is cheap/easy to remedy. The STG-2003 is a WASR made for InterOrdnance instead of Century.

There are no Steyr barrels in them.

Barrels made with Steyr techniques? Sure, everyone uses those.

gunnie
October 12, 2008, 12:34 PM
below from wikipedia:

The locking system [on the VZ 58] features a falling breech lock hinged from the breech block and breech block carrier that contains two locking lugs which descend into and engage locking shoulders in the receiverís internal guide rails. The weapon is unlocked by the short tappet-like stroke of the piston rod as it strikes the breech block carrier and drives it rearwards.

this is the same system of the BAR, FAL, and SKS. perhaps an FAL or SKS in 7.62? the falling block actions ARE more dust sensitive than an AK. but they are inherently more accurate.

gunnie

gunnie
October 12, 2008, 12:50 PM
nalioth,

Barrels made with Steyr techniques? Sure, everyone uses those.

define everyone... i can go a LONG list of currently issued wartoys that don't.

after some research, i have found that IO's original ad implied steyr mfg, but further investigation backs your statement that same is NOT the case.

gunnie

nalioth
October 12, 2008, 01:01 PM
Barrels made with Steyr techniques? Sure, everyone uses those.
define everyone... i can go a LONG list of currently issued wartoys that don't. Nobody is coming out to say "We use Steyr techniques."

Steyr has been in business since the 1400s.

Everyone in the arms business uses some of their techniques.

Ash
October 12, 2008, 01:44 PM
The VZ uses a different method than the FAL for locking. The FAL tips the bolt. The VZ has lugs that move from the bolt into recesses. They both have vertical movement instead of the AK's rotary movement, but they are different.

Ash

Evil Monkey
October 12, 2008, 03:32 PM
this is the same system of the BAR, FAL, and SKS. perhaps an FAL or SKS in 7.62? the falling block actions ARE more dust sensitive than an AK. but they are inherently more accurate.
edit:nevermind

read above post

1911Gunslinger
October 12, 2008, 03:57 PM
VZ58 has a larger ejection port, better ergonomics and parts kits complete minus receiver can be had for 100.00 or slightly more. Galils are more expensive (except the garbage from Century) and parts are hard to come by and expensive as well. Accuracy is about the same.

gunnie
October 13, 2008, 02:07 AM
Nobody is coming out to say "We use Steyr techniques."

Steyr has been in business since the 1400s.

Everyone in the arms business uses some of their techniques.


i think they are refering to hammer forged rifling, as done in their case on steyr made machinery. has the advantage of stress releiving the metal as it is formed, and a generally smoother finish on the I.D. than most production rifling has. same used by steyr, HK, and FN made/liscensed FAL rifles...probably some others i am not aware of, but surely not "everyone"....

Ash,

pls expand...am not sure i understand your description. how do the lugs operate from the bolt? do you know of a good link to this info? [with pics for the reading impaired]

thanks beforehand,
gunnie

Mahk
October 13, 2008, 05:11 AM
I'd have to go with the VZ58, though I may be a bit biased. In my opinion, as cool as they are, the Galil weighs far more than any 5.56 rifle should. And while the numbers between the VZ and the Galil (or most AKs) don't indicate that there is that much of a weight difference, you simply have to hold the VZ to understand. Not only is it lighter, but the weight is distributed more effectively than the Galil. As far as reliability? They are both utterly reliable weapons that have proven themselves in combat. The VZ is definitely an odd duck and TRULY has nothing in common with the AK or any other rifle I've had the pleasure of tinkering with. Here are some comparison pictures of mine next to my M70AB2 to give you an idea.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y151/skslvr/Guns/VZ58%20M70AB2%20PTR91/STH70155.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y151/skslvr/Guns/VZ58%20M70AB2%20PTR91/STH70150.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y151/skslvr/Guns/VZ58%20M70AB2%20PTR91/STH70147.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y151/skslvr/Guns/VZ58%20M70AB2%20PTR91/STH70151.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y151/skslvr/Guns/VZ58%20M70AB2%20PTR91/STH70145.jpg

Ash
October 13, 2008, 06:44 AM
You can see a photo of the bolt above. The locking lugs are just below it. I have lifted a photo to show how it locks. When the bolt is in the forward position, the lugs slide down and lock the action together. As the action works after firing, the carrier slides back and then retracts the lugs upward which then allows the bolt to slide backwards.

Ash

gunnie
October 14, 2008, 03:21 AM
Mahk and Ash,

OK, i get it now, thanks for the pics.

gunnie

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