Triple Seven powder


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armoredman
October 12, 2008, 01:44 AM
Found a local supplier that had exactly one choice for black, the Triple Seven FFFG substitute, which I would like to try in my 1858 Remington Sheriff Pietta clone. Any thoughts/experiances/tips with this stuff?

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Voodoochile
October 12, 2008, 06:17 AM
Keep your charges at no more than 25gr. because it is a little hotter than Black Powder & Pyrodex.

777 does not like to be compressed that much so all you need is to just have the ball/bullet sitting on the powder not compressing it.

If you are using a Wad same thing applies as before don't compress the load too much or you may end up with a FTF or a HF.

mykeal
October 12, 2008, 06:44 AM
Voodoochile is right on the mark.

With 777 you need to use 10-15% less by volume than your normal black powder load, and it does not like to be tightly compressed. Just be sure the ball is seated.

777 has a higher ignition temperature than black powder, but regular caps should be adequate. Some people feel that magnum caps are more reliable with 777 but my experience is that regular caps will work fine if the powder is not compressed too much.

Tomahawk674
October 12, 2008, 10:19 AM
I have probably had 2 misfires with tripple seven over something like 600 shots or more, and I'm willing to bet it was clogged nipples both times.

You'll love 777, it's so easy to clean, fouling is minimal, etc. Just multiply the charge of regular black powder you want to emulate by 0.85 and that will give you the 777 ammount.

Have fun!

g.willikers
October 12, 2008, 05:01 PM
Triple 7 absorbs water, much like BP, so it will cause rust if it's not cleaned out well.

mykeal
October 12, 2008, 06:35 PM
Actually both 777 powder and black powder are only slightly hygroscopic. However, the combustion by-products (fouling) of both do contain salts that are mildly hygroscopic; my experience with both says that black powder is significantly worse in that regard. I regularly swab my guns after each session with bp solvent before leaving the range and clean thoroughly within 24 hours of each session. I would suggest you do the same.

1858rem
October 12, 2008, 07:59 PM
well... bp isn't really hygroscopic when it is still in powder form is it, not badly anyhow. 777 is much more hygroscopic in powder form because it is sugar based, regular bp's only hygroscopic component it the kno3, but 777 has kno3 and the sugar, and whatever else they may have decided to put in it. i do really like the 777 though, especially more shots/lb due to reduced load but that still doesn't offset the price difference imo. have fun makin' smoke

armoredman
October 12, 2008, 09:23 PM
There's the fun of it - which loading data? Two manuals that came WITH the sidearm say the following; Peitta max load 15gr FFFG of black, and Cabelas, which states 35 gr black, 28 gr Pyrodex. Those came IN the box, then my Hogdon manual says 20gr 777 to 25 gr, in a steel frame 1858, (which I have), so therein lies my disquiet. I am thinking the Hogdon data is probably the one to use, and the Peitta data is meant to keep charges weak, to prevent gun breakage and lawsuits.
Thanks for the help guys - one last question. Howintheheck do you use an inline capper? One came with it, never used one before.

1858rem
October 12, 2008, 09:35 PM
i dunno how to use those cappers either, they are either too tight to release the cap or too loose an they fall out or just right but wont feed or the caps fall over....soooo much trouble with em lol. i do wish something would help cause i got a deal on 1000 #10 primers for 25$, plus i had 500 at the house an about 300 more #11's...... an in the cold that will make yer thumb hurt in a hurry tryin to put all those little caps on!:cuss:

1858rem
October 12, 2008, 09:39 PM
i think 27g 777 works pretty good, its a little over recommended load but go with what you feel is safe in your gun, thats only target for me though, about 35-40 yds back that load only went about half an inch into a 2 by 4 steak and was 6" low, but dead center horizontally lol

dwave
October 12, 2008, 09:44 PM
Which is funny because it says on the website to reduce by 15%. SO, if cabelas says 35 gr. bp then it should be 30 grs. for the 1858. (35x.15=5.25;35-5(rounded)=30 gr.) However hodgdon recommends 25 instead.

*WARNING FOLLOWING DATA GOES OUT OF MANUFACTURERS SPECS*

I have used 35 grs. of 777 in my 1858 before. Most of the time I use 30. grs.
I have even loaded 40 gr in it, and WOW, that was a real hit of power. It was very inaccurate though as I had to compress the load to get it in. As stated before 777 does not like to be compressed. I don't recommend the 40.

1858rem
October 12, 2008, 10:11 PM
*WARNING FOLLOWING DATA GOES OUT OF MANUFACTURERS SPECS*
(I copied that^ lol:D) yes i've loaded up an over 40g 777 too no wad or anything, jus a little bore butter i got a hair over 45g POW:what:! very strong guns, i guess manufacturers could be trying to cover brass and steel frame revolvers in the same statement though. 30g of most powders seems to be a good load, maybe on the heavy side though:scrutiny:

dwave
October 12, 2008, 10:14 PM
I agree, I wouldn't want to throw that much powder in a brass framed gun at all.

(I copied that^ lol)

Hey, if it works, go for it! :D

mykeal
October 12, 2008, 10:52 PM
Here we go again.

The best load for your gun is the one you determine for yourself by trying out several options. The manufacturer's/distributor's/retailer's recommendations are worth exactly what they cost you.

Start with a mild, even low load, say 20 gr in a .44 Rem NMA. Use grease or wads or corn meal or whatever, at this point it's not important. Load each chamber the same way and use the same amount of compression. Shoot 3-5 rounds at 7-10 yards ALWAYS using the same POA. The point is to shoot groups, not hit the bull.

Reload using 22 or 23 gr, the same wads/grease/meal and use the same amount of compression, shoot 3-5 rounds at the same distance. Repeat with 25 gr, then 27-28 gr, 30 gr, 32-33 gr and 35 gr. It should become clear which load shoots the smallest groups. I doubt very much you'll have to go much above 30 gr as the group should open pretty quickly with those heavy loads.

Once you've found the best powder load you can then experiment the same way with wads/grease/corn meal options to see how those work for you in your gun.

Now if you want you can start adjusting the sights in any manner you wish to shoot accurate POA's at longer ranges.

This should result in the most accurate load for your gun. I think it will be about 25 gr, give or take a bit. But maybe not.

Or you can just fill up the chambers and blast away,

1858rem
October 12, 2008, 11:00 PM
blastin away is pretty fun:evil:, i unknowingly until afterwards tend to alternate, i have kind of got a pattern going of at first just havin tons of fun just blastin away with pretty heavy loads, then i get tried of missin all the time lol so i decide to work up an accurate load, sometimes im patient enough to finde it others im not and just start blastin away, then i start running out of money cause of all the powder i gotta buy, so i go back lookin for accuracy and economy, then i just finish up with a few dozen heavy loads, then i shoot my flinter a few months and forget my load for the Remington and start all over again.... i think im gonna write my loads down next time lol, oh i forgot, in all this i switch up between rb an conical to make it even more confusing!:neener:

DixieTexian
October 12, 2008, 11:22 PM
Write the load on the inside of the grips with a sharpie when you clean it. That way you always have it with the gun.

1858rem
October 12, 2008, 11:28 PM
great idea. thanks!

Hellgate
October 13, 2008, 04:09 PM
I don't believe 777 is sugar based. The old Black Canyon and APP MIGHT be but I'm pretty sure 777 is not. The sugar based subs were/are very moisture grabbing.

Sistema1927
October 13, 2008, 05:36 PM
I shot both my .44 1858 and my .36 1851 today using 777.

15 grains in the .36 and 15 grains in the .44 both print to the same POI at 7 yards. The 1858 will handle 30 grains of 777 without problems, but 15 does the job.

As to caps, even though folks sometimes bad mouth CCI, I find that CCI #10 caps work just fine with both revolvers.

Gaucho Gringo
October 13, 2008, 08:34 PM
I shoot Triple 7 in both my Remington 1858 & Colt 1851 both in .44. I use 25-28 gr in the Remington and 22-25 in the Colt. Both are steel framed Pietta's and both shoot good with Triple 7 with no problems and easy cleanup. I left the Remington loaded with Triple 7 for 9 months, no caps or grease on, with no rust . Although one one of these days I going to have to find some real black powder locally and try it.

BHP FAN
October 13, 2008, 09:35 PM
I have even used triple seven in my Trapdoor.55 grs under a 385 conical is my most accurate load yet.

dwave
October 14, 2008, 02:14 AM
It does work pretty well in cartridges. I load it in a .45 colt every now and then. (Mainly when I don't have BP.)

armoredman
October 14, 2008, 02:17 AM
Looking forward to trying it on my weekend, thanks, guys!

Smokin_Gun
October 14, 2008, 04:10 AM
I broke the Pins off an 1860 Pietta Steel frame with 28gr of 777 ffg...it's less accurate in a Cap & Ball...pretty accurate in a cartridge load like .45Colt. Tried in in a ROA I just got that eats everything 2 out a 6 misfires in the first cylinder.
I bought 1 lb. hard to consistantly press a ball on, still have half a lb. left won't buy another.
Why don't people buy 5 or 10 lbs. of The Holy Black Powder in what ever brand or Granulation they like? It can be shipped to your Door... From Powder Inc. Goex, KIK, Swiss...I jus' don't understand.
http://www.powderinc.com/catalog/index.html (see page 2)

{I'd use Pyrodex P before I used 777 ffg again}:evil:I don't think I like it...

SG:cool:

1858rem
October 14, 2008, 10:02 AM
for what reason did you choose to use ffg in a pistol? fffg works much better as far as ignition and accuracy, an power too, but you still gotta watch the compression. in fffg i prefer 777 to pyro p, but for ten bucks less i can have the pyro p vs almost 27 dollars/lb 777:eek:. soon enough ill make a ten lb powder order from powder inc (because ANY sub absolutely sucks in a flintlock!), but first i gotta spend all my money on the kirst konversion with loading gate lol:evil:

Smokin_Gun
October 14, 2008, 10:50 PM
It's already 15% hotter by volume to BP and was told fffg 777 is is hotter soooo if it broke my 1860 with ffg 777 why would I use fffg 777...I looked up the spec before using ... Hogdon doesn't really lean towards cap & ball with fffg 777 more geared to cartridge Revs.
Either way I found out enough with ffg 777 to know I don't wanna use it.

I'll stick with the Holy Black Powder thank you very much...nothin' like the real thing baby...:cool:

SG

dwave
October 15, 2008, 01:40 AM
Hogdon doesn't really lean towards cap & ball with fffg 777 more geared to cartridge Revs.

That isn't true. Hodgdon says to use only FFg in cartridges. And all load data is listed as FFg.

From the web site:
Triple Seven In Cartridges: Use data specifically developed for Triple Seven FFG only.

Here is the load data from Hodgdon's website:

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=86489&stc=1&d=1224049163

1858rem
October 15, 2008, 02:56 PM
you broke your 1860? what broke?.... i was a gun shop tryin to order the kirst cylinder but was waiting on a few other people in line and i found these little reloading manuals which stated loads for bp cowboy cartridge rounds and smokeless cartridge cowboy loads(i also saw a 45 lc for the first time.... awesome!!!!) anyhow the manual stated around 6-10000 cup for smokeless 200g loads, later stating around 11-13500 for 777 loose and pyro pellets respectively, except the pellets were loaded under a 250 g bullet, and the 777 was ffg in the manual.... ummm.. i actually did not see any loads for 777 3f in any cap an balll except for the ruger OA, and that was only 25 or 30g load i cant remember... and at about 10-11000cup. conflicting facts in a way i think?:scrutiny:

Mike 56
October 15, 2008, 07:43 PM
I shoot fff Goex in my cap n Balls but i would like to try 777 especially in my walker. I have a friend that shoots Pyrodex RS in his 58. Likes it because it is bulkier. He almost fills the chamber and seats the ball. He shoots the gun well.

Mike

Smokin_Gun
October 16, 2008, 07:40 AM
Sorry typo dwave S/B "if it broke my 1860 with ffg 777*, why would I use fffg 777,..."ffg 777 I looked up the spec before using ... Hogdon doesn't really lean towards cap & ball with ffg 777 more geared to cartridge Revs.
Either way I found out enough with ffg 777 to know I don't wanna use it."

Is that clearer???:rolleyes:

SG

Smokin_Gun
October 16, 2008, 07:53 AM
That was part of my point that kinda got lost...what broke on my 1860 pietta was the sharper recoil must have not knowingly knocked the wedge out before or with the third shot, sheared both pins clear off...I drilled them out and hand made custom new pins and still shoots great. 28 gr of ffg 777 by volume messed up my Rev...BP it the best and most accurate you can buy...Powder Inc . delivers....
I can't use lube pills with then and 777 is less accurate than fffg Goex BP in any of my Revs. It is not easily pessed or dompressed for depenanle repeatability...

SG

sundance44s
October 16, 2008, 08:48 AM
I`ve loaded the 777 in 45 cartridges before ...it`s a bit stout for me ...maybe as a hunting load ..but for target shooting ...it`s a little heavy on the recoil .
Pyrodex P is stout too ..loaded in 45 colts ...I stick with Goex these days ..no worries ..enjoy shooting them much more , and don`t have to worrie about streching the frames on my revolvers ..The original black powder 45 loadings offer plenty of punch .

1858rem
October 16, 2008, 09:34 AM
what weight bullets are you using with the 45 loads? what charge weight too, i pla on getting a conversion soon and was curious what are a good combo of bullet an charge weight? and what load did you try with the 777 in cartridges?

BHP FAN
October 16, 2008, 10:28 AM
I've been useing 30 grains of 3f Triple Seven,under a 250 gr. bullet,and it's really too stout for my 7 1/2'' SAA ...stands the revolver staight up in your hand from the rather hairy recoil.A LOT like shooting full house .44 mag rounds.They work well in my carbine,though.I'll use Triple Seven in moderation [about 55-60 grains] in my trapdoor,but not with my 405 bullets,just my little 385 spire points.

dwave
October 16, 2008, 11:15 AM
Is that clearer???

Perfectly.
I was pointing it out so nobody would use FFFg in carts, which Hodgdon doesn't support.

sundance44s
October 16, 2008, 11:31 AM
1858rem ....I use the heavyer 250 gr bullets because they are more accurate in my conversion cylinder Remingtons ...the lighter 200 gr bullets are just ok ....as far as accuracy ...when I use real black powder I always cast my own bullets they are 255 gr . 2 lube groves Lee Mold ..and I pan lube them and use 34 grs of Goex 3f under them ....they Crono at 877 fps out of my 8 inch barrel Remmies and 781 fps with my 5 1/2 inch barrl Remmies ....my Pyrodex P loads Crono at 940 fps 8 inch barrel and 837 fps 5 1/2 barrel .....I never weigh the charge , I use a volume type measure ...and get 1/8 inch compression seating the bullets with no over powder card . I`ve tried useing an over powder card , but saw little difference if any. A good neck crimp is important for less blow back on the cases . The Lee crimp die does a good job . The 777 loads I tried with the 250 moly lubed bullets ..I used only 30 grs of 2f 777 and a over powder card ..they fly at 957 fps out of the 8 inch barrel ...and feel like a Mag load ...wern`t much fun to shoot .

1858rem
October 16, 2008, 02:20 PM
it sounds like when these cartridge loads are used it kicks more maybe? cause w/40g 777 fffg my 1858 only seems like a really hard 38 special kick, true though 38 special being the only cartridge pistol i have yet fired i dont have much else to compare to. 250g sounds good... i may cast some, but i saw a place that sells 500 packs of hard cast 200 or 225 or 250g bullets for just under 40 bucks! maybe ill get 200's and 250's(or all three lol:D) an try them with 777 ffg,fffg just to see how goes, but i mostly will use trail boss i think

sundance44s
October 16, 2008, 02:45 PM
I use Trail Boss as my smokeless loading 45 Lc ...it`s good target powder ..puney compaired to the black powder loads though ...but a lot quicker to reload , and easy to clean up after .

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