[Mark Tyson]

Scripps Howard News Service September 11, 2003

American troops forced to buy own wartime gear

By TARA COPP & JESSICA WEHRMAN

Last Christmas, Mike Corcoran sent his mother an unusual Christmas list: He wanted night-vision goggles, a global positioning system and a short-wave radio. Corcoran, then a Marine sergeant in Afghanistan, wanted the goggles so he could see on patrols. They cost about $2,000 each.

According to an Army internal report released earlier this summer, many ground troops like Corcoran decided to dip into their own pockets to get the equipment they needed to fight in Afghanistan and in Iraq.

"There were a lot of reports of that prior to the war, people would go out and buy their own gear," said Patrick Garrett, a defense analyst with GlobalSecurity.org. "The Army ran out of desert camo boots, and a lot of soldiers were being issued regular black combat boots. Soldiers decided that wasn't for them, so they paid for new boots with their own money."

According to the Pentagon's "Operation Iraqi Freedom Lessons Learned" draft report, soldiers spent their own money to get better field radios, extra ammunition carriers to help them fight better and commercial backpacks because their own rucksacks were too small.

Senior Airman Joe Harvey, based at McGuire AFB in New Jersey, said his clothing allowance is $200 a year from the Air Force, and that most aspects of the uniform, including four sets of combat and dress uniforms are provided.

"But of course with all the wear and tear they don't always last that long," said Harvey, who deployed to Iraq for the war. "Now with some of the units if you rip a pair of bdu's (battle dress uniform) they will give you a new pair. But for the most part you are responsible for buying any new uniform you need except for boots. Your unit will always supply with a free pair of boots."

Harvey said the costs stack up during promotions, when each airman has to purchase new stripes and get them tailored on.

Corcoran, who has since left the Marines, purchased a bunch of items before he deployed. One necessity: baby wipes, because as he said, "a lot of the places you'll go, you won't be taking a shower."

Corcoran also bought his own rucksack, and modified a sling for his M-16 so he was better prepared for patrols. He bought an electric shaver to remove stubble that would keep his gas mask from sealing correctly.

Corcoran got all the items on his Christmas list, including the $2,000 goggles. The short wave radio was meant for entertainment, but he ended up hearing messages urging jihad, and he picked up intelligence from enemy fighters.

And there is one item many soldiers purchased and carried into the desert that wasn't part of the regular equipment.

"Another cool thing to bring with you is an American flag," Corcoran said. "Just in case you plan on conquering anything."

© Copyright 2003 Scripps Howard

[Mannlicher]

this is frought with ambiguity, like the threads on US troops using AK rifles in Iraq. There is just no way that every possible piece of gear an individual might want, will be issued. Troopers throughout history have provided their own gear to suit their own perceived needs. This report tends to make this 'shortage of gear' the fault of the Army, which it is not.

[Quartus]

Mann, there is truth in what you say about 'perceived' needs, but boots ain't exactly on that list. Neither are uniforms. The military is suffering from a lack of funding for basic soldier stuff, while pork barreling politickers force boondoggles on the Pentagon that it doesn't want.


And that doesn't even address the problem of much of military gear being far behind the times compared to what is available to the civilian world.

[Spark]

I can't tell you the number of Blackhawk Omega 6 Holsters for the beretta I sold during the war. What was particularly shameful were guys forced to buy their own bayonets! :barf: As for the clothing allowance and uniform replacement, my own personal experience is directly differant - Our unit didn't get free bdu's and boots during peace; when you tore them up, you paid for new ones. We got issued the right uniforms if we were deployed into a non-woodland environment but otherwise? Fugehdaboudit.

The previous poster had it right - the military is buying too many stupid projects and not enough on the basic soldier. One less B2 bomber and every enlisted troop could get a massive pay raise. Friggin sad.

[Black Snowman]

A friend of my Dad's was an Airborne Ranger and he replaced nearly all of his gear with higher quality equipment because "I can't buy a new ???."

On his shopping list was ceramic plate reinforced body armor, an accurized M16, 40 round magazines, a differant side arm (can't remember what it was now) plus tons of misc gear like more comfortable boots.

He had everything he "needed" issued to him but he wanted the best odds he could get for getting out alive and making his experiance more comfortable, not for the sake of being more comfortable but to reduce fatigue.

[Wildalaska]

I have a letter from my Grandfather writing home from France in 1917 asking my great grandma for stuff he needed that the Army wouldnt provide...

WilditsalwaysbeenthatwayAlaska

[WT]

The Marines have always had a tight budget. Unfortunately they spend it on things like the Harrier, the best 2nd rate airplane out there. Scrap the Harriers and get the Marines decent boots, radios and NVG's.

I gather that one Army battalion in A-Land was experimenting with fleece clothing and Gore-Tex / Thinsulate boots. Neither worked. The fleece got sweated up and wouldn't dry and the battalion suffered many cold casualties. Same with the boots. They found that beige desert boots with wool socks worked just fine in the high cold altitudes.

The poor bloody infantry always gets the shaft.

[longeyes]

I learned about this situation from my fiancée, whose son is on
active duty with the Marines. He too needed stuff like goggles, etc.
I think this is an appalling state of affairs and would be shocking news
to most Americans.

We hear about teachers scrounging up drawing paper and crayons. Why
don't we hear about our own fighting men and women having to dip
into their own pockets to provide themselves with needed equipment? This
Government needs to find that money--no excuses.

[Glockster35]

I don't know what Air Force Airman Harvey is in, but I have never gotten a new set of uniforms from the AF, and I have never been given a set of boots that weren't either cold weather boots (depending on the climate) or steel toed for jobs that required same. He must be in a flying unit, and I'll bet he's already maxed out on medal points also.

It's funny, but some bases and commands spend their money on the troops and others don't have enough money to operate. My careerfield is the lowest of the barrel, we never get any good gear (unless we buy it ourselves) and we never have enough money to last the whoile year.

[agricola]

The Marines have always had a tight budget. Unfortunately they spend it on things like the Harrier, the best 2nd rate airplane out there. Scrap the Harriers and get the Marines decent boots, radios and NVG's.

ok you try getting your bells-and-whistles F-22 into the air without moving it forwards :D ;)

[EOD Guy]

I don't know what Air Force Airman Harvey is in, but I have never gotten a new set of uniforms from the AF, and I have never been given a set of boots that weren't either cold weather boots (depending on the climate) or steel toed for jobs that required same. He must be in a flying unit, and I'll bet he's already maxed out on medal points also.

That's funny. Every other service issues their people a complete set of uniforms. I find it hard to believe that the Air Force also doesn't.

[Waitone]

Let us be careful to distinguish between "want" and "need."

I remember during the advance on Baghdad and afterwards our media went ape with stories of our troops running out of water. I could easily believe spot shortages, that is not how it was played. Nooo, our boys were out of water.

Weelll, seems the accurate truth is our boys were out of bottled water, the prefered means of delivery. Convenient, better filtered, and tasted better.

Somewhere in the story is a small piece of accurate truth. Don't know what it is. And that is why is just assume I'm being lied to. Part of the game is for me to figure it out.

[Coronach]

The Marines have always had a tight budget. Unfortunately they spend it on things like the Harrier, the best 2nd rate airplane out there. Scrap the Harriers and get the Marines decent boots, radios and NVG's.ok you try getting your bells-and-whistles F-22 into the air without moving it forwards :DHa! I agree with Agricola. ;)

The Harrier might seem second rate, and in so many ways it is. However, while it is the master of no trades, it is a jack of pretty much all of them...at least all of the ones important to the USMC mission. Last time I checked, it could do yeoman CAS, yeoman air defense, and yeoman strike aircraft work. All of this from a LHD floating right offshore, or a patch of reasonably level earth that you just claimed.

I'm a huge fan of the F-22 and the JSF concepts, but when you need CAS and you need it right freakin now, I'd rather call on a marine in a Harrier which is parked over the next ridge than I would have to wait for a JSF which is a coupla hundred klicks away.

Just me.

Mike

PS Oh yeah. One of the things thats great about our military and society is the fact that soldiers can add gear to their kit out of their own pocket. Would it be better if Uncle Sugar picked up more of that tab? Obviously. But if I have the choice between an Aimpoint that I buy and no Aimpoint, I know which I'd choose.

[longeyes]

It's more than goggles, better boots, and Aimpoint sights.

Am I correct in saying that Marines have room & board deducted
from their regular pay?

They risk their lives and Uncle Sam won't throw in quarters and food?
Sheesh.

[Glockster35]

EOD Man wrote:

That's funny. Every other service issues their people a complete set of uniforms. I find it hard to believe that the Air Force also doesn't.

Let me clarify my post. When I initially came in the Air Force I was issued Green Fatigues, something like 4 sets. When I arrived at my first base, I was issued another 4 sets of BDU's. Upon my first deployment to the desert I was issued 4 sets of desert DCU's and tan boots. When I got to a northern tier base, I was issued cold weather gear. That's it. I have ripped many uniforms over the years, and was unable to get my units to pay for them.

This year I got $300 for my clothing allowance. It was spent on clothing items only, I got 2 sets of BDU's with everything sewn on, one pair of SS Blues/pants, and a new pair of low quarters. The clothing items are expensive, and tailoring is pretty high also. It costs right at $100 per pair to have them sewn to my standards for duty use.

[sanchezero]

I know when I was a lil infantry fella, I dumped just about all my TA-50 for civvie upgrades. Army gear sucks the most suckness (it's so hard to work around the auto-censor sometimes ;) ).

Of course it was outta my pocket, but it made all that field time much better. Real boots and a pack that actually had suspension. Real raingear and to hell with the LBE, that thing is like wearing a chain apron.

It helped that I didn't spend all my money on beer and stereo components.

:p

[longeyes]

I think this issue says a lot about contemporary America. And it's
not good.

One of these days a lot of military people will start asking who
they are really defending--and why. The way I hear it, civilians
are looked upon as "soft." Maybe we should all be reflecting on the
real meaning of that view. A nation that couldn't find the stomach
to mobilize after 9/11 but needed the comfort of knowing it could still
shop till it dropped is a nation that isn't likely to have gotten
the message. And two years later that's the way it looks.

[4v50 Gary]

Soldiers have always written home for things. Not to dismiss the desire for GPS or NVG, but my point is that armies traditionally have given soldiers less than what they wanted whether it is equipment, reinforcements, supplies, food and mail delivery.

A couple of months ago I sent a book too a sergeant unknown to me in Afghanistan. He sent a "read" list to Adlibris.com and they posted it for their customers. Fall is coming up and with it, time to start packing up stuff for Xmas for some service person somewhere.

[Joe Demko]

Read history. Specifically about sutlers. Soldiers always want stuff different or in addtion to what is issued.

[AZRickD]

TimW who runs Practical Tactical (http://www.practicaltactical.net) says he has gotten business from folks about to be deployed. They bought boots, load bearing gear, etc.

I talked to a lady last night who was recently in the Service who said she had to pay out of her own pocket. The Uniform Allowance was actually deducted from her pay. I think she was Navy.

Rick

[Joe Demko]

Gosh I'd love to hear the squeals of outrage from some of you if the militree actually gave every grunt every item he thought he needed. That stuff isn't free, you know. Tax money pays for it. If you feel that strongly about it, what is stopping you from taking a soldier shopping?

[AZRickD]

Golgo.

The folks buying gear from Prac Tac or Light Fighter aren't buying $2K night vision but usually, boots, LBE, back packs, Camelbacks and, desert BDUs just weeks or even days before they hop on the C130 to the middle east.

Pathetic.

Rick

[Azrael256]

I had to send my brother a knife so he would have something more personal than just his M-16 while standing guard duty. 'nuff said.

[Quartus]

Am I correct in saying that Marines have room & board deducted
from their regular pay?

Not correct. Unless you are a family man and you RENT base housing. Barracks and mess hall are part of your 'pay'.


I talked to a lady last night who was recently in the Service who said she had to pay out of her own pocket. The Uniform Allowance was actually deducted from her pay. I think she was Navy.

Garbled info here. There is a pittance given as a uniform allowance which is intended to cover your costs of laundry and replacement of those torn uniforms someone complained about. IF you elect to have the service do your laundry for you, that amount is then deducted - net zero.

But you still pay for repair and replacement as needed.


Guys working in an auto shop have a better deal on work uniforms!


That ain't right.

[Double Naught Spy]

Contrary to the article, American soldiers are not being FORCED to buy their own gear. They are electing to supplement their gear with private purchases. In regard to other things like replacing uniforms, the soldiers are issued uniforms and then are responsible for them. Sure enough, if they don't take care of the uniforms, then they get to replace them.

Night vision goggles? Cool! No doubt the military does not issue a set to every soldier. That is a nice x-mas gift. Not every soldier gets his own hummer. Do you think the miliatary would okay privately owned hummers being sent to the troops to use?

No doubt the military does not issue electric shavers for soldiers to trim their facial hair. They do get razors as I recall, but not of the electric variety.

Contrary to the article, the soldier are not forced to buy their own gear. They get issued gear. Anything they buy is supplemental to what is issued, like buying an American flag because it is a cool thing to have.

Note these guys are not buying guns or ammo because they didn't get a gun from the military.

[TimW]

As AZRickD indicated, I sold a lot of stuff to deploying military personnel, mostly Marines. The big item they bought: desert combat boots, followed by Camlebak hydration units.

Between Jan - end of Feb, I sold dozens and dozens of pairs of boots. I sold whatever I had in Camelbak, and could have sold about 3x as much. Same with 3-color desert DCUs.

Following that were patrol packs, assault packs and such. These seemed to be the "I want something better than what I was issued" purchases.

Quite a few infrared Krill lamps went out, too, as well as emergency signal strobes.

I'd have loved to move some NVGs, but nobody that contact me was buying that stuff.

[longeyes]

Largesse, in the billions, for dead-beat school administrators,
subsidized farmers, bureaucrats on an endless coffee break,
and illegal aliens.

Penny-pinching for our military, risking their lives.

That is shameful, America.

[Boudicca]

My son happened to phone me today so I asked him if he pays room & board. Short answer: Yes. He's a Marine, lives in barracks at Lejeune & every month $832 is deducted from his paycheck for room and board.
I've sent him money for upgrades to his equipment more than once and I'm happy to do it.

[Sergeant Bob]

My son happened to phone me today so I asked him if he pays room & board. Short answer: Yes. He's a Marine, lives in barracks at Lejeune & every month $832 is deducted from his paycheck for room and board.
As Quartus stated
Barracks and mess hall are part of your 'pay'. and benefits (my add)
Just as are medical care, prescriptions, dental, optical, recreational facilities, etc. I suppose you could add up the cost of all the benefits, and since you don't receive the money that these benefits cost, say it is being deducted from your pay as well, but it wouldn't be entirely accurate.
The military has to provide members food and a place to live. If there is space available on base, they are provided housing there. If there is not space available, they are given a housing allowance and separate rats (not on a stick), and can live off base.

[longeyes]

Sounds mighty like the miners who lived in the company town, ate
company food, shopped the company stores. They too got a fair
wage--BEFORE "deductions."

You don't need an accountant to tell when the wind blows.

[Joe Demko]

Okay, Longeyes, you've made it abundantly clear that you think they aren't getting enough gear or pay. Please be so good as to tell us how much you think we should spend per soldier, to include pay, equipment, training, food, housing, etc. Itemizing by broad category will be enough.

[longeyes]

Golgo:

I knew this. Some people are getting tons of freebies while our
fighting men and women are getting short shrift. Everyone says
nice things about "our troops" but from my perspective they are
taken advantage of. We have billions to fight AIDS in Africa--because
that might buy Someone some votes. Oddly, we don't have money to
patrol our own borders. And we don't have money to buy our
military the best equipment we can afford and no less than they deserve.
They want to cut disability payments to vets and charge injured troops
for hospital food. THAT IS OBSCENE AND DISGRACEFUL.

I'll leave the itemizing to you.