what rifle do you use for long range target shooting?


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user4574
October 13, 2008, 01:39 PM
Hey, I am considering buying a new rifle and scope for long range target competitions. and i was wondering what you guys recomend.... I am leaning towards an Arctic Warfare .300WM with a Custom US Optics SN-3 T-Pal scope and the Horus Vision reticule.

Any suggestions?? I would like to stay in the higher callibre range.... 30.06-.338LM.

Does any one have the gun or scope that i am looking at?

Thanks,
User4574

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Mike2
October 13, 2008, 01:44 PM
I ordered about a week ago the DPMS LR 308 fluted free floated barrel, chrome bolt carrier, collapsible buttstock, 4 rail gas block, 4 rail free float tube, ambi safety, JP adjustable trigger A3 styl upper. Cant wait to get it. I have shot many 308's and feel its the best all around hunting/ target gun for my purposes.

MMCSRET
October 13, 2008, 01:47 PM
Remington Rolling Block from 1879 contract in Calibre 43 Spanish.

user4574
October 13, 2008, 01:51 PM
those are some nice guns! I like the DMPS..... I had the opportunity to shoot it a year ago. It was a beaute!!! The only thing that was different was that it has the A2 stock instead of the collapsable.

What sights will ya be using?

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
October 13, 2008, 01:54 PM
I am leaning towards an Arctic Warfare .300WM with a Custom US Optics SN-3 T-Pal scope and the Horus Vision reticule.

I like your choice better than mine** (better than my budget allows). Go with that one. :)

**Action: Turk 98 Mauser. Bbl: Rem takeoff Sendero 26" in .243 Win. Stock: Fajen, glass-bedded.

SoCalShooter
October 13, 2008, 01:56 PM
http://f-classinfo.com/

Look at the F class rifles if you want to shoot long range I know a couple guys who shoot 1000 yards regularily in these types of matches.

user4574
October 13, 2008, 02:02 PM
what is your setup Premiumsauces??

Im pretty sure that the aw 300wm is an f class rifle.....

Is the Horus vision reticule a good choice in your oppinion?


User4574

gvnwst
October 13, 2008, 02:05 PM
The Horus retical is a thing of wonder. :D

i am going to get the HAWK with H25 retical soon for my AR...

Ridgerunner665
October 13, 2008, 02:08 PM
I shoot 308's... I have 4 but my new favorite is the Remington SPS Tactical with a few upgrades (stock, tuned trigger, trued action) and a Leupold Mark II 6-18x40mm scope.

I don't compete in any competitions...but I have been shooting long range for years, just for the fun of it.

user4574
October 13, 2008, 02:14 PM
ya, that reticule is my second choice however i want to stick with either a USO or Night Force scope...... if those are out of the question ill probably go Leupold.

The ar up here in Canada its called the c7.

user4574
October 13, 2008, 02:16 PM
I like your new setup RidgeRunner!! what do you think about the ballistics of the 308 vs the 300 wm?

skinewmexico
October 13, 2008, 02:18 PM
I'd love to have an AI, but I sure wouldn't get it in 300 WM. It was a big 1000 yard cartridge years ago, but there are a lot of calibers that have better ballistics, with less powder and recoil. Personally, I'm shooting a Savage 223 with a 1-7 twist to 500, and using a different Savage in 6.5X47 Lapua with a Sightron 3 for longer distances. If you've never shot LR before, you should shoot something a little more mundane until you see if you like it, IMHO. The best thing to do on here is search for posts by a user named Zak Smith, and go to his web page. I think he's an AI dealer too.

If you're talking about shooting F-Class, most of the guys I see there are using Nightforce, and dialing in clicks. The Horus doesn't really help in that class.

Ridgerunner665
October 13, 2008, 02:22 PM
The 300 WM is better, no doubt...but its comes with more recoil, increased ammo cost (powder, brass), and less barrel life.

I have a couple of 300 WM's and I have been looking at the 300 RCM (Ruger Compact Magnum) for a future build...but I tend to do better with the 308, which could be simply because I like it more ...even with its rainbow trajectory.

user4574
October 13, 2008, 02:24 PM
ok, ya i have read a couple of his threads..... i would like to stick with an AW, what about the 338LM??

Ridgerunner665
October 13, 2008, 02:25 PM
Just a suggestion...for simply punching paper waaaaay out there...look into the 260 Remington and/or 243 Ackley Improved.

Ridgerunner665
October 13, 2008, 02:26 PM
338 LM is way too much gun for my needs...If I cant fire it without a "brake"...I don't want it.

Excellent ballistics...just too much of a good thing for me. I recently thought about building one...but I have changed my mind in favor of the 260.

user4574
October 13, 2008, 02:29 PM
ya my uncle has a Remington 700 in 308.... right now it(and he) is in FLA so we cant go shooting :(

that is something that i didnt consider.... what about the .243 Win ?

Ridgerunner665
October 13, 2008, 02:31 PM
The 243 AI does better with the heavy bullets needed for LR. The 243 is OK, but it needs that extra little bit of powder that AI version gives it.

user4574
October 13, 2008, 02:31 PM
ok RidgeRunner you have changed my mind.... im thinkin in .243 AI

anyone know the balistics on this particular round?

skinewmexico
October 13, 2008, 02:32 PM
http://www.6mmbr.com/243Win.html

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
October 13, 2008, 02:32 PM
My view on long range shooting, in my limited understanding (keeping in mind I have very little experience in the area), is that:

--If you're killing just paper, there is no need whatsoever for a .300, .338, or larger caliber. A 6mm or 6.5mm round is what you want, even for 1K range shooting, maybe a 7mm round tops, because it will do just as good of a job at bucking the wind (through good BCs) with a whole lot less recoil, noise, expense, etc.

--IF, on the other hand, you want to theorize that you may have some practical anti-personnel or anti-material application someday (in the event of invading Al Queada forces or whathaveyou), and want enough retained energy to actually have enough thump to kill a car at 600 yards or a man at 1000, let's say, then I could see going to a .338 Lapua, .338 RUM, or even .50 BMG.**

But the 6.5 mm rounds like the 6.5-284 Win/Norma actually best the .300 win mag, for example, in drop and wind-bucking at 1K, because high BC 6.5mm 139s go a lot faster than high-BC .308 190s or 210s. So why go to a heavy recoil-producing, flinch-inducing monstrosity when a 6.5mm cartridge does the job even better than a .300 maggie and about equal to a .338 lapua (for killing paper)?

Heck, the 600 yard world's record (sub - 1" group in fact) was set earlier this year by a 6.0mm round. But at 1K, I think you'd want a 6.5 cartridge or possibly a 7mm cartridge.***

If you want to go budget/non-custom, this would be a tough act to beat right here:

http://www.gunblast.com/Savage-12F.htm

**Having said that, I think that a 6.5mm round from a .260 rem, 6.5x55, 6.5-284, etc., would still pretty easily kill a man at 1K yards, because it still has 700-900 ft-lbs. of retained energy, if you're talking screaming high BC 139s. I for one would not stand there letting someone take shots at me at 1K on a bet that if I survive a hit, I would win $1 million.

***The great thing about the 6.5 cartridges such as the .260 rem, 6.5 creedmore, 6.5x47mm, and 6.5-284 Norma, is that since so many long-range practical and F class guys use these calibers, what happens is that very high quality brass and bullets end up being made to supply them (Norma, Lapua, etc.). You need these high quality, consistent components to maximize your chance for extreme accuracy. So that weighs in favor of going with one of these 6.5 rounds. And of those, the 6.5-284 has the most oomph *among those cartridges not considered to be barrel burners*. I've never done an F class match, but my understanding is that a lot of them are now turning to the 6.5-.284 Norma.

On the Horus reticle, I am not educated enough to make a recommendation one way or another. But it sure does look good!

That's caliber - as for equipment, that's a whole nuther topic. I don't have access to a 1K yard range, and my "little" .243 win poor-man's custom build is enough gun for the 600 yard range I do have access to. Having said that, I still do indeed plan on getting the Savage 12 F Class PTR in 6.5-284 Norma within a year. Better wind-bucking is better wind-bucking, even at a "measly" 600 yards. :p

gvnwst
October 13, 2008, 02:33 PM
I have seen 105gr at 3,300 fps in the AI. Check out this link, it has some info:

http://http://www.6mmbr.com/243Win.html

gvnwst
October 13, 2008, 02:34 PM
crap, someone beat me to it:(

Ridgerunner665
October 13, 2008, 02:36 PM
I don't mean this the wrong way...but he needs another forum.

Snipers Hide, LongeRangeHunting.com, SniperCentral is where you need to ask that question to get in depth answers.

user4574
October 13, 2008, 02:39 PM
I have quickly priced out this rifle and scope.... i can get it for just under 10 grand..... all i gotta do is bank up about 5 more paychecks!!!!!!! :)

user4574
October 13, 2008, 02:44 PM
ill bring it up on another forum.... thanks for your help guys!
Could possibly se some of you on an NRA range in the nex year or so.

User4574

taliv
October 13, 2008, 03:13 PM
user, that combination is definitely cool and would be good for practical/tactical long range matches, but if you plan to shoot f-class competitively, i'd go a different route.

for f-class, the nightforce benchrest is hard to beat. it's 1/3rd the price of the USO and far better suited to f-class. the glass is comperable, the magnification range is more appropriate and the reticles are better for target shooting.

as far as the gun is concerned, keep in mind there's "F" and "F-TR". your setup would be fine for the latter if you chose .308win caliber. but since you're 300wm, you have to compete against guys who are shooting what essentially amount to benchrest guns on benchrests. if you're planning on shooting off a bipod or with an AI, you're going to get spanked.

that said, if you really want a tactical weapon and just want to use the competition as fun and practice, then that would be an impressive setup.

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