Long Range AR-15 Caliber: Which One?


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gvnwst
October 13, 2008, 05:57 PM
Hi guys,

I am in the market for another AR upper, and i want a long range cartridge so i can shoot in matches. (among other things) Other than the 6.5 Grendel, what are some good LR cartridges for the AR-15 platform? I do not want a AR-10, as i already have a '15 lower.

I'm thinking along the lines of a 6mmAR Turbo, but there is also the WSSM family. If it is a wildcatt, i do not care, as long as it is easily formable. Good excuse to get more equipment too:D Have any advice? Also, any experiance with any of the cartridges would be greatly appreacted.

Thanks.
:)

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shevrock
October 13, 2008, 06:04 PM
isn't .223 a good long range caliber?

rrflyer
October 13, 2008, 06:08 PM
.223 will go to 1,000 with 1/8 twist.

I believe DPMS makes a .243 and a 260.

Jimmie
October 13, 2008, 06:10 PM
243 and 260 are AR-10s. The Turbo is about as good as any.

gvnwst
October 13, 2008, 06:27 PM
isn't .223 a good long range caliber?

something with a bit better ballistics, less wind drift, ect

Armueller2001
October 13, 2008, 07:49 PM
.223 will go to 1,000 with 1/8 twist.

Doesn't .223 lose most of its effective power in a few hundred yards?

taliv
October 13, 2008, 07:51 PM
effective power

so i can shoot in matches.

*cough*


can you get a 6.5x47 L in an AR?

gvnwst
October 13, 2008, 08:05 PM
i wish. something like 6.5x47 equivilent in a ar (not actual equiv, a "scaled down" version)

Deer Hunter
October 13, 2008, 08:18 PM
6.5 Grendel?

Z-Michigan
October 13, 2008, 08:38 PM
I do not want a AR-10, as i already have a '15 lower.

Most of your cost is in the upper, not the lower. Fully equipped lowers for an AR-15 are only $200 or so, compared to the $500-1000+ cost of a barreled upper with BCG (depending on caliber and quality level). While the interchangeability is neat, IMHO there is little point in buying separate uppers alone vs. just buying complete new rifles.

gvnwst
October 13, 2008, 08:47 PM
i like the interchangability, and the use of the same trigger, ect...

gvnwst
October 13, 2008, 08:48 PM
6.5 Grendel?

just wondering if there were more options.

rangerruck
October 13, 2008, 08:51 PM
243, 243 ai, 260, 6x47, 6mmx45(with a long bbl) , 6.5 creedmoor, I think they do it in a 6.5x284 as well...

gvnwst
October 13, 2008, 08:52 PM
other than the 6x45, none of those fit into a AR 15

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
October 13, 2008, 08:56 PM
Probably the Olympic in .25 WSSM or .243 WSSM are the best calibers for long-range shooting, particularly the .25 WSSM, *IF* they are accurate - but I don't think they're known for that, so you'd probably have to accurize them. So in reality, rather than in a vacuum based solely on ballistics, a quality 6.5 grendel upper is likely your best bet. But you could run with 6x45mm, 6.8 Rem SPC, 6.5 grendel, .243 WSSM, .25 WSSM - any of those are nice flat shooters without having to delve into crazy bullets and twist rates. At 400 yards or less, I'd just go with a 5.56x45mm.

SimpleIsGood229
October 13, 2008, 08:56 PM
I think you'll find the Grendel to be about the best one. I suppose you could neck it down to .224, but that would be a barrel burner.

I still think 6.5 Grendel is the best option. :)

Howard Roark
October 13, 2008, 09:21 PM
There is nothing on an AR15 platform that will out perform a 6BR or 6BRX (http://bratrifles.com/) for competition.

A friend has one that I modified the upper, made and installed a charging handle on the bolt. We have shot this rifle at 300 yards and the groups are fantastic.

gvnwst
October 13, 2008, 09:24 PM
how does the 6mm BRX compare to the 6mmAR turbo 40?

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
October 13, 2008, 09:31 PM
There is nothing on an AR15 platform that will out perform a 6BR or 6BRX for competition.

Upon reviewing that, I'd have to take Mr. Roark's advice on the 6 BR or 6 BRX - looks good!

gvnwst
October 13, 2008, 09:32 PM
yep. the bigger bolt and modified carrier is looking sweet too

Howard Roark
October 13, 2008, 09:34 PM
Turbo 40 case water capacity, 38 grains.

BRX, 43 grains.

It will push Berger 105 at 3000fps.

gvnwst
October 13, 2008, 09:37 PM
that is .243 levels. in a AR-15!!

Howard Roark
October 13, 2008, 09:37 PM
The best thing about the 6BRX is that all you have to do to make brass is load a 6BR and pull the trigger. No screwing around with necking up or down and neck turning. Use Lapua brass on the 600 yard line and Rem at 200 and 300 yards.

Howard Roark
October 13, 2008, 09:39 PM
that is .243 levels. in a AR-15!!

I played with the 243 WSSM. It's a great round but is a real barrel burner. The BR is much better.

gvnwst
October 13, 2008, 09:43 PM
I played with the 243 WSSM. It's a great round but is a real barrel burner. The BR is much better.

i have heard other, much worse things about the .243 WSSM... that is why i didn't buy one already.

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
October 13, 2008, 10:02 PM
OK, so which is better and why:

1. 6 H
2. 6 AR
3. 6 BR
4. 6 BRX
5. 6 XC
6. 6 WOA
7. 6x45mm

?? The WOA looks like it has the largest case capacity, followed by the BRX and then the AR. The 6 H and 6 XC are not shown in the pic.

Wow, curse you guys - now I'm going to have to figure out if I want a Rob XCR in 5.56 or a custom AR upper in one of these crazy near-.243 win calibers. Anyone got a review or more in-depth comparison? What about mags and feeding reliability, etc.? Thanks.

gvnwst
October 13, 2008, 10:09 PM
the site didn't say what the WOA was. what is it???

gvnwst
October 13, 2008, 10:13 PM
i want them all. i really should stop looking at their site.

Howard Roark
October 13, 2008, 10:35 PM
6mm/6.8 SPC/WOA - Water capacity 33.5 - 34 gr
6mmAR - Water Capacity 36 gr
6mm AR Turbo - Water Capacity 37 gr
6mmAR Turbo 40 deg IMP - Water Capacity 37.5 - 38 gr
6mm HAGAR - Water Capacity 37.5 - 38 gr
6mmBR - Water capacity 38 gr
6mmBRX -Water cpacity 43 gr
6x45/6mm-.223 -I don't have capacity data but it is sure to have less than the above.
6XC is based on a 22-250 and doesn't fit an AR15.

All of the above except for the 6BR is made from some other brass. The 6BR will feed 105's from the mag. We got 4 mags from the first run and one is dud. It is being sent back. There was some confusion on the first production run of mags and they came in crome plated not matte finished. We will see if the latest run is perfect.

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
October 13, 2008, 10:39 PM
The 6BR will feed 105's from the mag.

But the 6 BRX won't?

Thanks very much. The BRX doesn't LOOK like it has more capacity than the WOA, but it definitely does.

Howard Roark
October 13, 2008, 10:52 PM
The 6BRX will feed from the mag. It has the same case length as the parent case. Only the shoulder is pushed forward.

SpeedAKL
October 13, 2008, 10:54 PM
.308 is a popular option

DPMS also offers .260 Remington and 6.5 Creedmor. Armalite offers .300 Remington SA Ultra Mag. 6.5 Grendel will get way out there as well.

gvnwst
October 13, 2008, 10:55 PM
.308 is a popular option

DPMS also offers .260 Remington and 6.5 Creedmor. Armalite offers .300 Remington SA Ultra Mag.


that is AR 10, not 15

gvnwst
October 13, 2008, 10:59 PM
The 6BRX will feed from the mag. It has the same case length as the parent case. Only the shoulder is pushed forward.

i really want one:o

Howard Roark
October 13, 2008, 11:13 PM
The only thing I don't like about the BRAT rifle is that they use the standard Olympic flat top upper. I wish I could get the bolt, carrier and barrel extension only. That way I could ream out one of the thick sidded DPMS uppers to accept the larger barrel extension and have a more rigid system with out the useless forward assit.

trstafford
October 13, 2008, 11:57 PM
The reason .223 is working so well at 1,000 yds is the very heavy bullets used along with the fast twist barrels.

rrflyer
October 14, 2008, 12:40 AM
Why dont you just get a .50BMG upper for it?

gvnwst
October 14, 2008, 09:09 AM
Why dont you just get a .50BMG upper for it?

Not mag fed, way more $$$, and too much kick. And not as accurate as the cartridges we have discussed here.

gvnwst
October 14, 2008, 09:18 AM
Howard

how do you make the BRX brass? Just fireform in chamber?
Thanks

jerkface11
October 14, 2008, 09:22 AM
Model One Sales makes a 6mmPPC upper.

Howard Roark
October 14, 2008, 10:12 AM
how do you make the BRX brass? Just fireform in chamber?

Yes, Just load up a 6BR and pull the trigger.

gvnwst
October 14, 2008, 10:22 AM
so i can shoot factory ammo and the improved ammo? How do i order:D

Howard Roark
October 14, 2008, 10:35 AM
I wouldn't count on the best accuracy while fire forming brass. I would use a light bullet loaded moderately. Call Eric and talk to him.

What kind of LR competition are you looking to get into?

gvnwst
October 14, 2008, 10:53 AM
not a clue, i have a several hundred yard range that i am going to practice on before starting to compete. Does F-class allow use of semi auto rifles? Maybe tactical matches or something like that....

Howard Roark
October 14, 2008, 11:27 AM
F-class allows bottom feeders. The rifle we are talking about would be in the Open class.

F-Class information. (http://f-classinfo.com/)

gvnwst
October 14, 2008, 12:03 PM
thanks for the link.

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