Rem vs. Rem vs. Savage


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Sam Adams
October 13, 2008, 08:03 PM
I am on the horns of a dilemma. I've got a Remington 700VS in .308 that I acquired about 12 or so years ago NIB. I've got around 500 rounds through it, and I'm pleased with its accuracy (roughly 1 MOA) with 168 grain bullets (mostly SMKs, but also some AMAXs and some Noslers), but I'm not ga-ga about it. Note that this is box-stock except for a trigger job down to about 3.5 pounds - no blueprinting, no bipod, same barrel. The scope is a 4x12 variable. It has a 1:12 twist.

OK, here's the dilemma - I have a few choices (like going into Baskin-Robbins and choosing) and can't decide. Should I:

1) Keep my rifle but modify it (as in get a bipod, blueprint the action, re-crown the muzzle, new barrel, etc., etc.)

or

2) Sell it and get a NIB Remington 700 5R Milspec (plus a bipod). Cost would be about $1K, incl. shipping and FFL fees. I've heard some great things about how scary-accurate the thing is.

or

3) Sell it and get a NIB Savage 12FVSS (plus a bipod).

BTW, my understanding is that the 5R Milspec was made with the M118LR load specifically in mind (175 SMK apparently likes the 11.25:1 twist). Apparently in the right hands and box-stock it can do under 0.5 MOA consistently out past 1,000 yards. I'll be honest and say that I'm probably not those right hands (but practice will improve that), but I like the fact that the rifle has the capability without modification.

What say y'all?

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gvnwst
October 13, 2008, 08:07 PM
3) Sell it and get a NIB Savage 12FVSS (plus a bipod).

don't know much about the 5R, but this rifle is ____ great! Seen it do about .3 MOA at 100, and .2 at farther ranges. not sure about at 1,000yd though.

dakotasin
October 13, 2008, 08:41 PM
#1 is your best bet for best accuracy, but it is also your most expensive option.

#2 is your best bet for value.

#3 does nothing for me.

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
October 13, 2008, 11:07 PM
Boy, I don't know - what rifles that you have ARE you ga-ga about, and what's makes them so for you? That might give us a clue as to what to do. Also, do you have access to a 1K range? 600 yards? What?

skinewmexico
October 14, 2008, 12:19 AM
All of my Savages outshoot my best Remington, but I don't have a 5R. You could always buy a Savage action, stock of your choice, and a Shilen pre-fit barrel in an interesting caliber, for less than $1,000. I do think if the 5R was consistently .5 MOA out to 1000, they would be dominating F/TR in F Class, instead of Savage.

browningguy
October 14, 2008, 12:41 AM
If you want accurate without spending a ton of money, go with the Savage. They are generally more accurate than we mere mortals right out of the box. I shoot a 12 FV in .243 and couldn't be happier, it's consistantly in the .35" range, sometimes a little tighter, very rarely worse than .4", and that's with the stock accutrigger and barrel.

Savage Shooter
October 14, 2008, 12:44 AM
You can trick your remington:barf: out all you want or you could just buy a stock savage and get most of in not all of what you would have to add onto the remington to be on par with the savage. I have a 12FV .223 and I can shoot a quarter or less at 100yrds with a pos BSA scope:neener: My buddy is even better with my gun but he shoots all the time I have less than a hundred rounds through mine and I've had it for a year or more. I would highly recomend a savage they consistantly smoke the competition costing much much more just because it's less expensive doesn't mean it isn't better.:evil:

lefteyedom
October 14, 2008, 02:29 AM
Hum sound like you are looking at your Remington as if it were a STARTER WIFE.:evil:

Upgrade the rifle you have. By doing this you will learn what makes a rifle package work. Having a 1 MOA rifle to start with is not a bad place to start from.:D

500 rounds in 12 years is very little shooting. That is just 2 boxes of shells a year. (I am sure you have more than just this rifle!):cuss:


Simply buying a new rifle won't teach you anything. Besides that new rifle may OR may not need work.:banghead:

YodaVader
October 14, 2008, 05:03 PM
For barrel changing on the cheap the Savage is hard to beat. That is what I will eventually do with my .223 12BVSS if I decide to keep it. My stock barrel fouls rather quickly and I am lucky if it will get more than two good groups in a row. I also had a Sharp Shooter Supply trigger installed.

After about 300 rounds the rifle has proven to be more frustration than fun. I am going to bed it first and see if it produces consistent groups. If not then a Shilen or Lothar Walther barrel might be the next step.

As much as the Savages are suppose to possess some kind of magical unbeatable accuracy I have much better results and consistency with my various 700s.

dunnsguns
October 14, 2008, 05:33 PM
I've shot a .5" MOA with many stock savage and I've shot .5" MOA w/ many stock Remington 700 ADL.
I like Remington because their marketing is wonderful (the same reason glock has such following).
My much younger more practical brother likes savage because he gets more bang for his buck.
My younger brother will end up very wealthy and able to by any gun he wants in the near future, but I will always be spending my money on whatever is Shines the most.
As for getting the Savage 12FVSS, I dont think you will be saving a whole lot. From what I've been told they are "amazing" and people are paying top dollar for them when they can find them.

Der Verge
October 14, 2008, 06:06 PM
Savage nut here, #3 is the only option.....

Sam Adams
October 15, 2008, 03:51 PM
Boy, I don't know - what rifles that you have ARE you ga-ga about, and what's makes them so for you? That might give us a clue as to what to do. Also, do you have access to a 1K range? 600 yards? What?

For these purposes, I'm ga-ga about a super-accurate rifle (0.5 MOA or better) at a reasonable price. It is 2008, and our technology allows for the common man to be able to do that for not so much cash. I don't now have access to a range of over 300 yards, but given the rifle that can do what I'd like, I'll find one and travel to it. Ideally, I'd like to spend no more than $500-$750 plus what I can get for the Remington, if I decide to sell it.

What I'm really high on is mil-surps that have some history (not the particular rifle I have or would get, but the design - like the Finn M39 or the Swiss K31). Of course, even if accurate by military standards no milsurp will be a tack-driver to the extent that modern guns can be.

500 rounds in 12 years is very little shooting. That is just 2 boxes of shells a year. (I am sure you have more than just this rifle!)

If I had 1 or 2 guns, a lot more would've gone down this barrel. There have been 2-3 year periods of time when it was merely a safe-queen. I hope to change that for my tack-driving boltie, whether this one or one of the replacements mentioned above.

As for getting the Savage 12FVSS, I dont think you will be saving a whole lot. From what I've been told they are "amazing" and people are paying top dollar for them when they can find them.

This may make the choice for me. No point in a bargain rifle if it isn't, in fact, such a bargain.

dunnsguns
October 15, 2008, 04:22 PM
Quote:
As for getting the Savage 12FVSS, I dont think you will be saving a whole lot. From what I've been told they are "amazing" and people are paying top dollar for them when they can find them.

This may make the choice for me. No point in a bargain rifle if it isn't, in fact, such a bargain.


Upon further review. To clarify I was told that in my area they are hard to get however upon looking at Gunbroker.com, it seems they have quite a few of them and some in 300 WSM :) (wich I think would be swell) all for under $700

qajaq59
October 15, 2008, 04:43 PM
I've only sold one of my guns over the years. And like a lot of other guys, I still regret doing it.
I'd say save up some money and then buy another one that you like.

Tarvis
October 15, 2008, 05:05 PM
Buyers remorse is not nearly as bad a sellers remorse; never sell a gun you don't completely hate. I say keep your rifle and buy one of the others. I personally would get the Remmy, but that's me.

Sam Adams
October 16, 2008, 02:00 PM
I've only sold two rifles - both Mini-14s. Didn't regret either, and my only regret was getting the 2nd Mini (that one a ranch version for scope mounting), as it was only minimally more accurate than the first. The AR I got in its place is FAR more accurate.

If I were to go ahead and get either the Savage or the 5R milspec without selling my 700, then I can see the 700 sitting in the safe for a long time. I still have a lot of thinking to do on this issue.

If Obambi gets elected, the availability and price of ammo, components, mags, etc. is going to be very limited until it is outlawed or taxed to death - so maybe I should load up on those first and get the rifle later (not being semi-autos, they'll be lower on the list).

To quote Vinnie Barbarino: "I'm confuuuuuuused."

dunnsguns
October 20, 2008, 09:46 AM
King Ghidora

I dont usually like it when people correct others on these forums because I think people taken it the wrong way and feelings get hurt, but this one I cant tolerate.
I believe "B.H.O." has made it perfectly clear that he does not want the "H" to be used anymore so would you please refer to him as "B.O." from now on.

Thanks,
DunnsGUNs

Sam Adams
October 20, 2008, 04:35 PM
I've looked for prices on the Savage, and I'm not as impressed as I once was - it is a bit more than I had anticipated. That sort of changes the calculus to either buying the Remington 700 5R Milspec or working on my existing 700.

Does anyone have any recommendations as to good gunsmiths for the Remington 700, and the best modifications to improve accuracy?

I'm thinking about the following:

1) New barrel - match quality, 5R rifling.
2) Trigger job - maybe a Jewell.
3) Blueprint the action.

Comments? Questions? Wise-cracks?

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