Seriously, What is the BEST fighting pistol?


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Supertec
October 13, 2008, 08:22 PM
I just bought a Springfield XD in .45 acp and I like it but I've heard alot of guys on here say it's no fighting pistol. If armageddon ever breaks out, which the way things are going in this country it probably will and familys have to fight for there life what is the best and most reliable pistol you could own and you could also operate it with injured hands? Also what caliber? I want cold hard facts and not just brand loyal opinions. Please make this a serious discussion with no bickering. Thanks.

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hankdatank1362
October 13, 2008, 08:28 PM
Anyone that says your XD is not a fighting pistol is a fool.

Doc Alamo
October 13, 2008, 08:34 PM
For a serious combat pistol, I would have to grab one of my GLOCK's. I probably shoot my G30 the best, but my G17 or G21SF would be close at hand. I shoot the G17 in USPSA and IDPA, and the G30 in IDPA only. Since I shoot these in "staged combat", and the gun just feels right in my hand, for me, it would be my GLOCK.

Dr. Bill

DougW
October 13, 2008, 08:38 PM
I think this is a personal preference. I prefer my Glocks, but I would feel well armed with a 1911, my High Power, or any of the mid level and up auto loaders over 9mm.

Ala Dan
October 13, 2008, 08:39 PM
Why would I own four extra magazines for my .45 ACP Springfield XD;
if it were not a fight'in pistol~? :banghead: :eek:

Loosedhorse
October 13, 2008, 08:39 PM
Fighting pistol? 1911. You only need so many shots to get back to your rifle. :)

Hold-them-at-gun-point-until-they're-cuffed pistol? Might be smart to use a DA or DAO pistol with a groaningly awful trigger pull. Examples are many.

Or use a 1911 and train properly.

Prepster
October 13, 2008, 08:45 PM
The Internet commando crowd seems to love the FN Five Seven series. I like them too, but I like them because they're fun to shoot, not because of their mythical abilities.

A poster on another forum put it this way: "you should get something in .357 sig, because people generally look awkward with a carbine in their pants."

Seriously though, your XD more than fits the bill.

CountGlockula
October 13, 2008, 08:45 PM
Glock 17 or a 1911A1, because you can pick the 9mm/.45ACP bullets from zombies.

hoosier8
October 13, 2008, 08:47 PM
I don't know enough about the XD but if it is anything like the Glock, no problem. I have many other types of pistols but if I were to rely on a SHTF pistol, I would take the Glock.

gotime242
October 13, 2008, 08:48 PM
Whatever pistol YOU are most efficient with is what is best.

possum
October 13, 2008, 08:57 PM
Anyone that says your XD is not a fighting pistol is a fool.
alot of people at www.getoffthex.com and folks that train with tactical response seem to think that the xd isn't a fighting handgun, i beg to differ. i took 4 days of there training and my gun ran like it always has and does. maybe i got lucky but i must have gotten lucky 2 times because i have 2 xd's that run, one with over 8k and the other with over 2k. i respect the opinons and the backgrounds of the folks there at tactical response and the people that train with them, they are big glock fans, and they are right glocks are aweosme, and i would be happy with one, but there is no gun that i shoot, or know better than my xd service model.

there are many acceptable fighting guns out there, glock 19, some 1911's, sigs h&k etc. there isn't a gun that i have that i can't fight with, and or trust my life with in a fight, my guns are reliable, accurate and can withstand the abuse of a fight/ training course, whatever i can throw at it. my 1911, my 2 xd's, i have tested them, and they run.

Supertec
October 13, 2008, 09:00 PM
I here what you guys are saying but what about being able to operate one with injured hands? I mean worst case scenario.

possum
October 13, 2008, 09:03 PM
I here what you guys are saying but what about being able to operate one with injured hands? I mean worst case scenario.
i have no problems operating a glock, my xd, or a 1911 with one hand, strong hand only or weak hand only, reloading, clearing type 1,2, and 3, malfunctions and the like.

i dedicate alot of range and training time to one hand shooting, and manipulations. i integrate it into every range trip. one hand manipulations with the strong hand are easy for me, but pretty hard with just the weak hand, the reloads i have down pat weak hand, but the type 3 malfunctions are a little tough still, as i am sure they will be for a while.

btw welcome to thr.

atblis
October 13, 2008, 09:03 PM
Easy.

Whatever you've got in your hand when the fight breaks out.

possum
October 13, 2008, 09:06 PM
Easy.

Whatever you've got in your hand when the fight breaks out.
i agree don't get so warpped around the tools, if you have the right mindset and skillset, you can overcome almost anything with whatever tool you have at the time.

XD-40 Shooter
October 13, 2008, 09:07 PM
Why would I have 10 extra magazines for my XD-40 if it weren't a fighting pistol.:D

jaydubya
October 13, 2008, 09:07 PM
"Fighting gun". Like "tactical", this is another meaningless expression. If you are in a tight situation and are about to pull the trigger, you have a fighting gun in your hand. No offense intended, I'm just a stickler for clarity.

Cordially, Jack

possum
October 13, 2008, 09:08 PM
Why would I have 10 extra magazines for my XD-40 if it weren't a fighting pistol.
yeah me too, can never have enough, people think i am crazy when i go to the range and i pull out all my mags.

possum
October 13, 2008, 09:09 PM
Fighting gun". Like "tactical", this is another meaningless expression. If you are in a tight situation and are about to pull the trigger, you have a fighting gun in your hand. No offense intended, I'm just a stickler for clarity.
if i have a choice then i am gonna use what i want, but that isn't always an option and then you use whatever you can.

wristtwister
October 13, 2008, 09:10 PM
Anything with high capacity magazines is a good "fighting pistol". The more rounds you can send downrange, the better. I've got a Beretta 92FS, Ruger SR-9, Smith 5903, Smith 4006 and a host of others that are 8 round clip feeds... and you don't want to be downrange of any of them.

"Fighting pistol" is a misnomer anyway. If you're shooting at body armor, it takes the right kind of load and bullet to penetrate it. If you're shooting at people dressed in street clothes, a .22 can be a fighting pistol... so don't listen to too many idiots out there that have any particular kind of gun and claim that its the only "fighting pistol" out there.

Pistols are selected because of their features and caliber. If you want "knockdown power", big slow bullets like .45 caliber or .40 caliber... if you want penetration, go to a revolver with .357, .44 mag, or .45 long colt. If you want a "hail of fire", go to a 9mm high capacity like the SR-9 or Beretta 92. Whatever you need is what you should use, and you have to choose the purpose and kind of characteristics you want it to have. You also have to see if the gun feels right to you as you shoot it... and you can boost their characteristics by using +P and +P+ ammo, if they're good for it.

Personally, my "fighting pistol" is the one I can reach at the time I need it.

WT

Ankeny
October 13, 2008, 09:19 PM
Anyone that says your XD is not a fighting pistol is a fool. Don't know if I would go so far as to call them a fool...but they sure be ignorant.:barf:

SuperNaut
October 13, 2008, 09:21 PM
Can someone define "fighting pistol" for me please?

everallm
October 13, 2008, 09:24 PM
A "fighting pistol" is any pistol, wheel or semi, that

You have in your hand
Is reliable
Your comfortable with
Is "minute of bad guy" accurate

'nuff said

Tacbandit
October 13, 2008, 09:27 PM
Supertec, don't get caught up in the hype...everyone has their favorites, but no matter what anyone says, get a gun that suits you, and P-R-A-C-T-I-C-E...For me it's the Glock(pick one), and my Kimber(1911) in .45.....Your XD is a great gun. Shoot it whenever you can, as much as you can, and get comfortable. In the scenario you described, like I've heard it said here before...use your handgun to get back to your rifle. I suggest having a rifle and shotgun to back up your handgun of choice. Know how to use them all, and pray you never have to. Best-O-Luck to ya..........:)

SuperNaut
October 13, 2008, 09:27 PM
A "fighting pistol" is any pistol, wheel or semi, that

You have in your hand
Is reliable
Your comfortable with
Is "minute of bad guy" accurate

That works for me.

CWL
October 13, 2008, 10:16 PM
A fighting pistol is the one you are trained in. Brand doesn't really matter.

No such thing as "BEST", anyone who claims a "Best" of anything is either ignorant or a fool, either way, don't take advice from that person.

Elvishead
October 13, 2008, 10:18 PM
Hi cap would be key.

kitsapcharly
October 13, 2008, 10:40 PM
There could be endless pros and cons but if you pick up your XD-45 I think you'll find the best fighting pistol is in your hand. :)

skinewmexico
October 13, 2008, 11:28 PM
They're right, if it comes down to it, throw that XD down and run away screaming like a girl. Some mall ninja will be along to properly dispose of it after the zombies are all dead.

JoeSlomo
October 14, 2008, 12:26 AM
alot of people at www.getoffthex.com and folks that train with tactical response seem to think that the xd isn't a fighting handgun, i beg to differ.

Me too.

A fighting pistol is the one you are trained in. Brand doesn't really matter.

Concur...

Glock, Sig, HK, Smith, Springer, Colt, Ruger, Kimber, STI, etc, etc, etc...

ALL make tools that would foot the bill.

jon_in_wv
October 14, 2008, 12:30 AM
My SHTF pistol of choice would have to be the Glock 17. Among other reasons is they are tough, reliable, weather resistant, a common caliber, high parts interchangeability in the brand, and also there are more of them around than nearly any other pistol so finding parts and magazines will me easier.

Ben86
October 14, 2008, 12:37 AM
What's in a good fighting pistol? The same stuff that is in any good pistol. Reliability, accuracy, control, etc. What matters is what's between your ears.

ReadyontheRight
October 14, 2008, 12:50 AM
BEST fighting pistol? 1911 and a few extra mags to get you to your rifle.

Reason? The trigger. I want to hit what I want to hit in an extended fight.

UnTainted
October 14, 2008, 12:55 AM
I like the SIG Sauer style of "fighting" pistol. I mean, a firearm is a weapon. Those are good enough words; but I think I could prefer a style for my weapon of choice, were that to equate to my fighting pistol...

So, the SIGs have a smooth (yes, they're great to practice and help DA revolver pull as well) double action pull for the first pull, and then each consequcitve round is ignited with that single action break-like-the-glass-on-your-mother's-doilies,-and-it-was-really-crystal (busted!) trigger. Fear NOT the DA.

Or a 1911 or a hi-power, obviously (proven track records). Maybe the magazine release would qualify the hi-power as a "fighting" pistol in somebody's qualification of fighting ...

thebear101
October 14, 2008, 01:15 AM
The new Thompson 1927 A-5 pistol, It shoots fairly well and with drum or clip and sling to hold it up with flashlight and reddot sight

Walkalong
October 14, 2008, 09:47 AM
1911, Seriously :cool:

red headed stranger
October 14, 2008, 10:12 AM
Don't worry about what others may say. If you have trained with the XD, and feel confident that you can handle, and it has been reliable, you've got your fightin' gun.

Walkalong
October 14, 2008, 11:32 AM
The XD's are fine pistols. I really like my XD SC in .40 caliber.

Creature
October 14, 2008, 11:34 AM
My snubby is a fighting pistol. So is my 1903 Colt Hammerless. And my Hi-Standard Duramatic .22. Any/every gun can be used as a fighting tool.

possum
October 14, 2008, 11:54 AM
The XD's are fine pistols. I really like my XD SC in .40 caliber.
+1 i love mine as well.

Water-Man
October 14, 2008, 12:46 PM
I prefer .45acp and in this caliber I'd rather fight with an XD for its dependability, accuracy, ammo capacity and the way it fits my hand.

jocko
October 14, 2008, 12:59 PM
One That Goes Bang Every Time!!

SuperNaut
October 14, 2008, 01:11 PM
Okay despite the fun and pithy responses about what a "fighting pistol" actually is, I decided to do some googling. It seems that when googling "fighting pistol" only one thing keeps coming up; the Tactical Response website. So it appears to me that "fighting pistol" is a manufactured term used by a single training facility that means something only to them.

IOW it doesn't mean a thing.

Please correct me if I am wrong.

Colt46
October 14, 2008, 01:32 PM
The handgun is a defensive weapon. The M-1 carbine was an attempt to get an effective defensive weapon into the hands of Officers and REMF's during WWII. It turned out to be quite a success.

Just trying to stir the pot:neener:

WoofersInc
October 14, 2008, 02:07 PM
Front Sight has a training motto at there facility and that is " Any gun will do, if YOU will ". The person behind the trigger determines if it is a fighting pistol or not.

mljdeckard
October 14, 2008, 02:10 PM
I have an M-1 carbine. It doesn't fit in my waistband or in a thigh holster.

Having carried extensively a Beretta M-9, a Glock 22, a Para 12 and 14/15, a Sig 226, a S&W Sigma .40, a Colt 1991, and some others, I have settled on my Kimber Custom II, with 230 gr HSTs. It is the one that works best for me. I would carry it to war tomorrow if my command would let me. I drank the kool-aid, fell for the hype, got VERY disappointed, and wound up where I started.

gwnorth
October 14, 2008, 02:17 PM
Well, I can see a practical difference between a fighting pistol and a precision range piece. One, the manufacturer designs to withstand the rigors of field carry, nasty weather, rough handling and so forth. The other is built to exceptionally tight tolerances, and with features specific for accuracy (heavy barrels and slides, fully adjustable sights and so on).

But it's often a pretty arbitrary categorization, as a combat pistol can be rigged out as a precision marksman piece and vice versa. Look at the 1911 - precision range pieces costing thousands of dollars, budget models costing mere hundreds (that work just fine for a personal defence sidearm) and everything inbetween.

When I think of combat pistols, I think of the amazing variety of service weapons that have actually been used in combat around the world, with military, para-military, police, ... Colts, Browning, SIG, FN, CZ, H&K plus all sorts of companies that have faded into history.

Even within the USA, you have SWAT teams using 1911's, SEAL teams using SIGs, others using Beretta, HKs, Glocks, S&W - the list goes on.

Among my own guns, is my SIG P226 a combat pistol and my 4" ss GP100 revolver not one? Either one, to my mind, can surely make for a highly effective personal defense weapon (or offensive one for that matter, if so inclined). My 6" GP100 is my most unwieldy weapon, but long barreled revolvers sure have seen a lot of combat in their time.

KBintheSLC
October 14, 2008, 02:22 PM
Seriously, What is the BEST fighting pistol?

1000 different users will generate 1000 different opinions.

IMO... there is no such thing as "the best" anything when it comes to guns. That issue is far too subjective. I see no problem with the XD as a "fighting pistol"... it's not my first choice, but certainly not my last choice either. They are reliable, accurate, durable, and easy to shoot. If you like it, and it goes bang every time, what more do you really need?

My first choice would be a Glock 20... it spits out the nasty 10mm auto, but operates smooth like warm whipped butter.

Black Majik
October 14, 2008, 02:24 PM
The newest "fighting" pistol. Last year's "tactical" pistol. :D

Turk
October 14, 2008, 02:29 PM
If armageddon ever breaks out, which the way things are going in this country it probably will and familys have to fight for there life what is the best and most reliable pistol you could own and you could also operate it with injured hands? Also what caliber? I want cold hard facts and not just brand loyal opinions. Please make this a serious discussion with no bickering. Thanks.


Any handgun is better than a rock but in the situation you describe I'll go with my signature. "If you know you're going to a gunfight take a rifle" I carried a 1911 for 4 months in combat as a back up for my M-60 but in the real world the 1911 was good to carry to the chow line when hot chow was flown in. If I ran out of 60 ammo or it broke I'd be looking for an M-16 over the 45.

As other posters stated any handgun you know how to use is sufficient. If you consider the injured hands I'd go with a wheel gun my favorites are the Smith 1917 classic and 329PD. I carry my 329PD with reduced loads.


Turk

mgregg85
October 14, 2008, 02:33 PM
What killed the dinosaurs?
What is the true faith?
Which is better, 9mm or .45 ACP?
Is JMB the greatest gun designer of all time? (well thats just an obvious yes)

It really depends on what you prefer.

For me, the best fighting pistol is the XD45, i'm sure everyone else has their favorite.

KodeFore
October 14, 2008, 02:38 PM
+1 The best fighting pistol is the one in your hand.

#1 Rule to a gunfight = Have a gun

IMHO the best fighting pistol is a company of army rangers.....

if yer gonna fight, fight to WIN

Darthbauer
October 14, 2008, 02:59 PM
I like my 226. its never jammed and accurate as all hell.

earlthegoat2
October 14, 2008, 03:19 PM
this should be moved to the revolver page,

seriously though, its got to be either the 1911 or the Sig P220. Both good offensive handguns in skillful hands.

The Bushmaster
October 14, 2008, 04:05 PM
"It only takes so many shots to get back to your rifle."

Little tired of hearing that "sage" quote. By the time I shoot my way back to my rifles I'll either have ended the conflict (1 to 3 shots) or I'll already be dead. Most of the time I am miles away from any of my rifles...That quote in these modern times has little value and may be the wrong message to send to our younger gun totters...Either pack your rifle or learn to use your handgun more proficiantly...

The Bushmaster
October 14, 2008, 04:08 PM
Best fighting handgun? Colt's series 70 or 80 .45 ACP 1911. It has a very successful 100 years of protecting it's owner/operater

M1911
October 14, 2008, 04:09 PM
Whatever pistol YOU are most efficient with is what is best.Bingo!

Double stack Glocks are fine guns, but Mrs. M1911 has tiny hands with short fingers -- she can't reach the trigger on any of them. So they are not the "best" pistol for her. YMMV.

j_charles
October 14, 2008, 04:59 PM
Thank you Bushmaster, I've been waiting for someone to say that. I really don't envision myself involved in a protracted gun battle with multiple armed assailants in my own home. We're not John McLean and this isn't Die Hard. :what:

As to the actual question from the OP...

I'm very new to handgun ownership and SD, so take this for what its worth (not much). My goal in handgun ownership is simple: protect me and my own. "Battle" (in a military sense) is not something I intend to become entangled in. If it's that bad (i.e. foreign invasion, marshall law, armed gangs roaming the streets, etc.) than my wife and I will be at the in-law's farm before you can say "S--- Hits The Fan." As such, the term "fighting pistol" is a non-issue. I carry an affective SD handgun, and practice to become proficient with it. That is my preferred weapon. I guess what I'm saying is: I agree that the best "fighting pistol" is the one you own and know how to use. If you aren't in the military you'll most likely just be hiding somewhere.

possum
October 14, 2008, 05:13 PM
Okay despite the fun and pithy responses about what a "fighting pistol" actually is, I decided to do some googling. It seems that when googling "fighting pistol" only one thing keeps coming up; the Tactical Response website. So it appears to me that "fighting pistol" is a manufactured term used by a single training facility that means something only to them.
you are right the 1st time and really the only time i hear "fighting pistol" is in the context of tactical response. i have never heard it any other place but i know what the school is trying to get across, i have taken both of the fighting pistol courses. i also understand what the op is trying to say.

the reason behind Tactical Response using "fighting pistol" is because the classes are focused at fighting with a handgun rilfe, shotgun etc, not merely a "shooting" school where you go to learn how to shoot tiny groups.

Tactical responses courses truely are fighting schools.

btw i did both course with my xd service and it ran like a champ. does this mean that the xd line is a "fighting pistol"? i think it does!:)

dbriannelson
October 14, 2008, 06:07 PM
When the Marine Corps replaced the 1911A1 with the Beretta (after I left), I was no fan of the 9mm. But the amount and severity of testing that goes into a decision like that is significant. I know of no other agency that goes to anything like the lengths of the U.S. military, even when popular opinion disagrees. (Consider the M-16.)

Given that I've never done the necessary testing or evaluation, I'd have to go with the best authority and suggest that the Beretta M9 is the best real fighting pistol.

That said, I backed up the 1911A1 with various other handguns during my time in service, so even there my trust wasn't complete.

-Don

dbriannelson
October 14, 2008, 06:48 PM
Double post

mljdeckard
October 14, 2008, 06:49 PM
If you are serious about personal or home defense, you must acknowledge that NO pistol round is sufficient for self-defense. Most people who are hit with a pistol RUN AWAY. Just because you don't WANT to keep a rifle handy doesn't make the pistol any better. Unless I am going somewhere forbidden by law (I wind up going onto military posts frequently) I have a pistol on my person and a rifle in my vehicle.

A pistol is something you use to fight your way back to a rifle. Any better result than that is luck.

mpmarty
October 14, 2008, 07:50 PM
In the normal home invasion or on the street confrontation, if you have to use your pistol to fight your way to your rifle, you're not using enough pistol. I depend on 10mm or 45acp hot defense loads and at self defense distances plan on laying on effective fire, first and fast.

everallm
October 14, 2008, 07:55 PM
If you are serious about personal or home defense, you must acknowledge that NO pistol round is sufficient for self-defense. Most people who are hit with a pistol RUN AWAY.

That's all that's necessary........Elvis has left the building

HGUNHNTR
October 14, 2008, 07:59 PM
hk45

possum
October 14, 2008, 08:00 PM
If you are serious about personal or home defense, you must acknowledge that NO pistol round is sufficient for self-defense.
that is the truth, but it is so funny the amount of people who do not believe this. it is sad really, if most people knew how effective handguns weren't they probally wouldn't be as confident in thier handgun. the same folks that think that a caliber that starts with 4 is the answer to all the problems in the world.

jmr40
October 14, 2008, 08:11 PM
When that gun comes along there will no longer be a need for forums such as this. There won't be anything to discuss.

gwnorth
October 14, 2008, 08:35 PM
If you are serious about personal or home defense, you must acknowledge that NO pistol round is sufficient for self-defense. Most people who are hit with a pistol RUN AWAY.

err, that works just fine for home or personal defense for me. As long as the danger has passed/gone away and I'm still intact, then the gun has done it's job. I'm not looking to leave a corpse strewn battle ground in my house.

Tacbandit
October 14, 2008, 09:42 PM
quote:
"... I've been waiting for someone to say that. I really don't envision myself involved in a protracted gun battle with multiple armed assailants in my own home. We're not John McLean and this isn't Die Hard."


yeh....and I'll bet that most home invasion victims of multiple armed assailants didn't envision it either...It doesn't matter who you are... if you're not ready, you probably will "die hard". All of the Wyatt Earp wanna-be's that think and teach that having a "fighting pistol" is the "end-all for all their problems are warped...Having said that....YES, be proficient with whatever you have...know how and when to use it, and pray you never have to. Having someone tell you whether your pistol is the real deal or not, is not going to save your life...knowing how to shoot whatever you have may save your life...It's not always gonna be 1-on-1...Avoid bad situations....common sense saves more lives than any gun ever could. Anyway....be ready.

JustRick
October 14, 2008, 10:36 PM
The M-1 carbine was an attempt to get an effective defensive weapon into the hands of Officers and REMF's during WWII.

Ahem. They made more than 6 million M1 carbines, and (if historical accounts are accurate -- I'm not that old) huge numbers of them also went to non-REMFs like tank crews, paratroopers, combat engineers, mortar crews, other crew-served weapons crews, and even medics and corpsmen. Not that they weren't REMF weapons also, but a lot of front-line guys who didn't have "infantry" as their MOS also carried them. No big thing -- this just stuck in my brane.

Now back to arguing about whether your "fighting gun" has to be painted in camouflage or not.

(Does an FN PS90 count as a "handgun?" :) )

http://www.goldammo.com/ps90/ps901.jpg

The Bushmaster
October 14, 2008, 11:06 PM
Tacbandit...If I could conceal my 1949 mod 94 Winchester .30-30 on my person when I go to town I would. I'm damned good with it as it and I have been very good friends for 50 years. But I can't seem to find a holster that will work. So what I said above still stands...My main battery for going to town is a Kimber Ultra Crimson Carry II. It will sufice until I get home and back to my .30 WCF. I doubt that the bad guy will be able to follow me home though.

The theory of the handgun being the ticket to getting to your rifle is good if your rifle is only 10 or 15 feet away. Other then that...You better get much better using your handgun...Good luck...

makarovnik
October 14, 2008, 11:20 PM
Seriously. In it's time the Peacemaker. Since 1911 well it was and still is the 1911.

Hawaiian
October 15, 2008, 12:13 AM
hk45
__________________
Suisse

That makes two of us.

mljdeckard
October 15, 2008, 01:50 AM
What you are missing is that if they have the means to run away after being hit, they STILL HAVE THE MEANS TO CONTINUE ATTACKING YOU AS WELL.

MarcusWendt
October 15, 2008, 06:56 AM
Anyone that says your XD is not a fighting pistol is a fool.

Yup!

everallm
October 15, 2008, 08:57 AM
What you are missing is that if they have the means to run away after being hit, they STILL HAVE THE MEANS TO CONTINUE ATTACKING YOU AS WELL.

We're not in the killing business, we're in the keeping you and yours safe business.

If he/she is buggering off, leaking claret, then any offensive action you take after that will get indicted at best and jailed at worst.

If he/she is still coming on then continue rounds down range and remember the phrase is Shoot To Stop.

mljdeckard
October 15, 2008, 05:26 PM
I don't want them to be in a position where they are able to choose whether to run away, or feel that they are wounded and cornered and COME AT ME ANYWAY. I want to stop them BEFORE they are at that point. Where did I ever say I didn't intend to stop them? I don't want to shoot at them while they retreat. I DON'T WANT THEM TO RETREAT AT ALL.

This is why we spend hours online arguing about which pistol round is the most effective. IT'S BECAUSE THEY ALL SUCK. All premium pistol rounds are an industrial-scale experiment to see which ones suck the least. Police agencies in the U.S. are so crippled by politically correct rules, they are required to go in with their pistol drawn, when they have the time to grab their carbine. I just flew out of the Paris airport, and can I tell you how refreshing it was to see the French Army walking patrol with a locked and loaded FAMAS rifle? Finally an agency that is willing to face a threat with the full level of force.

Heck
October 15, 2008, 09:31 PM
If unable to reach my AR or a shotgun(buck shot is a hd round) I would have no issue with my XD or my CZ75as a "fighting pistol"

jaydubya
October 15, 2008, 09:51 PM
Second post on this thread. Someone earlier interjected the expression "combat pistol" as a better description of what we are talking about. This is the clarity I sought in my first post. We can go all the way back to what General Hatcher, and so many other gun gurus, have written about what a combat pistol must do. That is a "combat pistol." As to what the expression "fighting pistol" means, I will define it: "the gun in your hand."

Cordially, Jack

sgt127
October 15, 2008, 09:59 PM
An awful lot of Euro Spec Ops guys swear, the HK line of handguns are the ultimate fighting pistol...So, the answer is HK...period...no question.

Except, the US SEALS carry the Sig P226, in 9mm..so, it must be the Sig P226.

Except, the FBI issues the Glock 23 in .40...So...that must be it, except, the elite HRT of the FBI carries a 1911, so, it must be better than the best, right?

Wait, the Air Marshals carry the Sig P229 in .357 SIG, so, obviously, it is the best fighting pistol.

An awful lot of cops defended thier lives handily with the .357 Magnum revolver for many years, can't ask more for that, "dropped like he had been hit by lightening!' and all.

Still, since 1911, the US Military kicked butts all over the world with the 1911 in .45, no question, its the best.

Except, the British SAS were tickled to death with thier Browning High Powers in 9mm until they flat wore them out shooting them...

After years of testing, the US Military decided the Berretta 9mm was the best, so, it must be. Except, the Sig P228 is also issued to specialized units, like CID, AF Special investigations etc...

Everybody...every group...everywhere has what they believe is the "ultimate fighting pistol". And, they are all different. So are you. Pick one, shoot it alot, get comfortable with it and feel pretty well armed.

I own alot of handguns. Nice ones. Most meet the requirement for being one of the best of the best. For me, the vast majority of the time, its a 3" K frame Smith M-65 shoved in my waist band off duty. About as basic a defensive handgun as you can get. Sometimes, simple is good.

easyg
October 16, 2008, 09:19 AM
The XD is just fine.
And whoever claimed that it's not a "fighting pistol" simply doesn't know what they're talking about.

Personally, I prefer the Glock G22.

Rexster
October 16, 2008, 09:53 AM
I guess I am one of the guys who said in the other thread that the XD is not a fighting pistol. As I said there, the necessity of depressing a grip safety in order to work the slide, and the possible difficulty of doing so in a one-handed or other injured-shooter scenario, means I will simply not be spending my money on an XD. As I also said in the other thread, I am not really thrilled with a 1911 grip safety, either, but at least it does not lock the slide.

As for what defines a fighting pistol, well, for me, it is a reliable, powerful pistol that I would voluntarily use in a fight. If a pistol has features that can handicap me while in a fight, I will not voluntarily take it into harm's way. I regularly see a co-worker who experienced major arm trauma during a gunfight against armed home invaders; his scarred, shortened forearm is a constant reminder. There is the FBI shootout with Platt and Mattix as another example, in which at least two agents experienced severe arm injuries.

I am sure the XD is a reliable pistol, overall. Enjoy them if you have them. I will avoid them. For that matter, I now avoid 1911 pistols unless they have both a "speed bump" on the grip safety, and a relieved area at the junction of the front strap and trigger guard, to allow the pistol to sit lower in my skinny hands, ensuring the grip safety is fully disengaged when I want it to be. Mostly, I carry SIGs and revolvers.

Just to be clear, I too will fight with a long gun if I can get to one.

leadcounsel
October 16, 2008, 10:38 AM
Seriously - if you are relying on a handgun for long term survival, gunfights, etc. in some fantasy post apocolypic world or SHTF scenario your gun will likely long outlive and out perform you.

I agree with the poster than said that "tactical" is a nonsense term and so is "fighting pistol."

Nearly any modern handgun will function just fine in self defense situations - we all have our preferences for reliability, handling, weight, capacity, caliber, etc. Choose something mainstream and learn to shoot it well.

DawgFvr
October 16, 2008, 11:11 AM
Seriously, What is the BEST fighting pistol?

1. Pistols do not fight. People do.

2. Even the "best" trained people do not always win the confrontation; anybody can pull a trigger and/or thrust a blade.

3. Everything is relevant and situational.

4. Finally, there really is such a thing as a dumb question. BINGO!

jocko
October 16, 2008, 01:12 PM
JUST what the hell is a FIGHTING PISTOL.??? Sure sounds like a real ad gizzmo to me...

Another good one is in the motorcycle world. Does "crotch rocket" come to mind. ***.

HD High definition TV??? Guess if you don't have HD you indeed have LD Low definition.

My opinion of a fightin gun is one that I have on me at all times that goes bang every time. Now pick your brand.

theotherwaldo
October 16, 2008, 03:20 PM
Seriously.

There are no fighting pistols. They all just sit there.

There are fighting men.
There are fighting women.
There are even children that can fight.

No gun fights. Fighters fight.

mljdeckard
October 16, 2008, 07:59 PM
I'm not going to call a grip safety a bad thing, when the most successful pistol in out history that save more of out soldiers' lives than any other has one.

possum
October 16, 2008, 08:21 PM
I guess I am one of the guys who said in the other thread that the XD is not a fighting pistol. As I said there, the necessity of depressing a grip safety in order to work the slide, and the possible difficulty of doing so in a one-handed or other injured-shooter scenario, means I will simply not be spending my money on an XD. As I also said in the other thread, I am not really thrilled with a 1911 grip safety, either, but at least it does not lock the slide
i find the above to be unjutified, i have never had that issue with my xd in training. personally i forget the thing is even there. there has not been once that i hadn't depressed it when i picked it up/drew it etc.

Crazy Fingers
October 16, 2008, 08:32 PM
Haha, if anyone says the XD isn't a fighting pistol, they are out of touch with reality. That XD is plenty mean enough.

gunseller2
October 16, 2008, 08:33 PM
You have a lot of wiggle room. It should be the one that fits your hand the best, has the features you require, and one you shoot well.

For me they are a Glock 17, Sig 220DAO, and a Kimber Raptor.

pictoblu
October 16, 2008, 08:36 PM
no brainer here.

of course, the best is the one you got when you need it, or else, run fer the hills, bro...

orionengnr
October 16, 2008, 08:42 PM
Which dog breed is BEST?
What is the BEST car made?
Where is the BEST place to live?
What is the BEST pickup truck?
Who is the BEST looking female?

Who asked the STUPIDEST question of the week?

Seriously, each of these questions is SUBJECTIVE (look it up). There is no "right" answer to any of these questions (except perhaps the last one) :). Everyone has his opinion, and while you may agree or disagree with any of them, that does not make your opinion (or mine) right.

Which makes this entire discussion a urinating contest. Some may find it amusing, but none will find it productive.

But since you asked my opinion :)
Jeff Cooper believed that the 1911 is the best fighting pistol. While I have never been in a gunfight, and hope to never be in one, my limited experience and regard for his judgement lead me to agree with him. Once again, I realize that my opinion is worth approximately nothing to anyone except me. As it should be.

KINGMAX
October 16, 2008, 08:45 PM
A GLOGK 21 in .45 acp, and a S&W 686-1 w/a 4 in barrel in .357 magnum.:D:D:D

.380awsome
October 16, 2008, 08:46 PM
Browning hi power 9mm,old fashioned automatic peacekeeper

Ghost Walker
October 16, 2008, 08:49 PM
What makes a good fighting pistol?

1. 45 acp caliber with highly manageable recoil characteristics
2. Long barrel, and low bore axis
3. Good trigger with fast reset
4. Dependable operation, rugged, with no pronounced tendency to fail
5. Low maintenance, able to run for a long time without significant cleaning
6. Few operator controls, and few moving parts
7. High capacity magazine
8. Easy to clear and maintain
9. Ready availability of replacement parts
10. Minimal requirement for factory service
11. Ammunition is plentiful and easy to obtain
12. Able to be concealed well
13. Popular, in order to aid with familiarization and parts exchanges

Crazy Fingers
October 16, 2008, 09:14 PM
So in order to be a good fighting pistol it has to be a .45? Sorry, but that's silly. A good fighting pistol has decent power, but not too much power. I subscribe to the idea that it's all about firepower. That includes the ability to rapidly keep shooting. That means high mag capacity and moderate power to keep it under control. 9mm +P is probably about perfect. But honestly, there are lots of pistols in lots of calibers that are great fighting pistols, including .45. I just don't think it's worthy of the complete worship it receives.

But if you are talking about sheer power and chest exploding ability, there are plenty of rounds out there that put .45 to shame. 10mm comes to mind. Oh, and it's got more mag capacity too.

Erik
October 16, 2008, 09:17 PM
"Seriously, What is the BEST fighting pistol?"

The one you just used to win a gun fight.

zen pistol
October 16, 2008, 09:30 PM
For me, a pistol that allows you to shoot better than your natural abililities allow you to. any cz sp01, but specifically the phantom because of its lighter weight, gets my vote.

Autolycus
October 16, 2008, 09:34 PM
For me it is a Sig P226R in 9mm with a DA/SA trigger. I dont know what it will be for you or anyone else.

Ghost Walker
October 16, 2008, 10:19 PM
So in order to be a good fighting pistol it has to be a .45? Sorry, but that's truly silly. A good fighting pistol has decent power, but not too much power. I subscribe to the idea that it's all about firepower. That includes the ability to rapidly keep shooting. That means high mag capacity and moderate power to keep it under control. 9mm +P is probably about perfect.

But if you are talking about sheer power and chest exploding ability, there are plenty of rounds out there that put .45 to shame. 10mm comes to mind. Oh, and it's got more mag capacity too.

:) That's your personal opinion; and, of course, you're entitled to it. I've had more than 50 years of pistol shooting experience (and time) in which to form this carefully tried and tested conclusion. No other pistol caliber has the highly desirable recoil characteristics of the 45 acp - None!

If you think you can outshoot me with a 9mm, or a 40, or a 357 SIG, or a 10mm, I assure you, you'll have no better luck than many others who've tried. I have often stood next to other shooters and accurately fired two or three times for every accurate single shot the person standing next to me was able to get off. In my experience, high magazine capacity means next to nothing unless you're able to rapidly and consistently hit what you aim at.

The vast majority of pistol shooters I've shot with and against did not, and do not, know how to accurately rapid fire a pistol. If someone were to try to use a 10mm against me, I guarantee I'll get off, at least, two accurate shots for every one the other guy sends my way.

The most important aspects of combat pistol shooting are (1) familiarity with your pistol, (2) ease of recoil management, (3) the ability to quickly level the barrel and/or, 'nest' the front sight, and (4) the ability to deliver accurate sustained rapid fire until the target goes down.

You can say anything you want over the internet; after all, why not, everyone does. I've got 50 years of combat pistol experience that says no handgun caliber works better than 45 acp in a gunfight. There are pistols that shoot bigger bullets; there are pistols that shoot faster bullets; there are pistols that hold more bullets; but, there isn't any pistol, anywhere, that I've ever used in my entire life which handles better than a 45 acp during CQB pistol work - Period. :cool:

Perhaps I should add that 230 grain RN/FMJ bullets are, also, a large advantage to enjoy in a pistol fight. Not politically correct, but, a large advantage nonetheless. Besides, ALL pistol bullets are capable of passing through the target; and JHP bullets are notorious for failing to stop. The shooting incidents in which JHP's have failed to either stop or continued to pass on through are legion.

I'm too old to have a head full of silly ideas. If something doesn't work you can rest assured I got rid of it many years ago. This close to God I always try to do the right thing; and, I always use what works. If you don't want to take the advice I offer, fine; that's your privilege; but, don't call me silly. If anything, I'm on the far side of serious and have been all my life. ;)

JT in VA
October 16, 2008, 10:21 PM
Fine SD weapon but shoot it as you retrieve the AR15.

PhillyGlocker
October 16, 2008, 10:44 PM
Of course, the G19. Such a great package. I'll take a Glock to any fight.
http://k43.pbase.com/v3/04/513704/1/45891835.glock1919.JPG
http://www.bowietacticalconcepts.com/sitebuilder/images/glock_19_to_26-400x330.jpg

Crazy Fingers
October 16, 2008, 11:05 PM
Well Ghost Walker, it seems we actually agree on the basic premise of combat pistol shooting. It's about hitting the target over and over again as fast as possible. Your practice has led you to be able to control the .45 well. That's excellent, but I just happen to think the 9mm is overall the best caliber for this application. Certainly easier to master, anyways.

As for the 10mm, I didn't say it was the best pistol cartridge. I personally don't think it is, unless you have a LOT of training and ability. My point was that many people have this idea that the .45 is some sort of amazingly powerful, chest exploding demon of a round, when there are plenty of others that do that particular function better. But, as you said, you can fire more shots out of your .45 than you can out of the 10. I think that's true and is the same argument that I make for 9mm vs. .45.

Marcus L.
October 16, 2008, 11:12 PM
Everyone who responds to this thread will advocate their personal favorite pistol as the best. Everyone has a bias and will promote their favorite investment.

There is no "best" fighting pistol. Only equally effective alternatives. Good fighting pistols are makes and models used by the widest range of military and police organizations as they use and abuse them. The best caliber is also likely to be the one most heavily used by military and police forces around the world. Most agencies don't keep buying equipment that isn't proving to be effective in the field.

Fred40
October 16, 2008, 11:20 PM
Well if I could buy any pistol and my primary concerns were power with accuracy and reliability in virtually any conditions.....It would HAVE to be the HK Mark 23.

http://www.hkpro.com/socom.htm

It didn't earn it's SOCOM contract based on nothing :)

Ghost Walker
October 17, 2008, 12:21 AM
Well Ghost Walker, it seems we actually agree on the basic premise of combat pistol shooting. It's about hitting the target over and over again as fast as possible. Your practice has led you to be able to control the .45 well. That's excellent, but I just happen to think the 9mm is overall the best caliber for this application. Certainly easier to master, anyways. ....

:) Yes, that is it! (I don't often see or hear this said much, though.) After a number of years, your proprioceptive reflexes (your body) become so accustomed to the pistol/caliber you shoot all the time that anything else, while manageable-by-degree, forces you to concentrate harder and throws you off ever so slightly. I'll grant that after a long day at the range a 9mm feels like a peashooter to me. I can very easily handle it. Still, physical adjustments are necessary: The recoil is much lighter; but, it's also snappier and faster, too.

When these experiences are considered along with my basic distrust of almost all JHP pistol ammunition, I have simply never been comfortable working with a 9mm sidearm. I've, also, killed a few game animals with both a 9mm and a 45 acp. These animals often continued breathing after getting hit in the torso with the 9mm; however, they often stopped breathing almost immediately when torso hit with a 45 acp.

I wouldn't presume to come onto any gun forum and tell the other guy what pistol or ammunition to use. It's a big world; and, everybody has their favorite. What I would volunteer is that of all the different pistols and calibers I've used in my life I've had the best results with 45 acp; and - perhaps, somewhat unusually - I've found the 45 acp's recoil impulse to be the most manageable.

When I've got a G-21 loaded with 230 grain ball ammo on my hip I feel very well armed; and, my own life experience has not yet given me a good reason not to believe that the first 3 rounds I let loose won't take care of anything I point a pistol at.

Of course a 45 acp pistol isn't a perfect answer for CQB gunfighting. (I can think of several short barreled carbines that aren't perfect answers, as well.) Still, I think if we stood next to each other you'd be surprised at how accurately and how fast I can empty a 45 acp pistol. On occasion, I've had other instructors and RO's stop to stare at me! I even watched a former factory shooter who was timing me actually blink his eyes (in disbelief?) when I looked at him once after letting a few go.

Neither will I say it's any special talent that I have with a pistol; more than likely it's those thousands and thousands of rounds I've fired, over and over again, year after year. I've watched other pistol shooters do this too; I just don't run into them everyday; and, happily, it's extremely unlikely that I would ever have to face anyone with such well developed pistol shooting skills. In my experience, anyone who pushes himself to this level of training and discipline always tends to be one of the good guys. (At least I hope so!) ;)

jocko
October 17, 2008, 04:42 PM
I have carried for over 45 years, to this day ,never had to draw my weapon. No one ever knew I was carrying either. My pocket rocket is my kahr PM9, to me the best of both worlds, LITE, FIREPOWER. Works every time. But I don't carry a spare magazine or a boot knofe or a tube of pepper spray.

I know I will get hammered over this but I think some carry this protection thing entirely to far. One can get over paranoid IMO and that also is not good. One can actually go looking for trouble which is not good.

Where you are at and where you are going is probalby the #1 thing to realize to stay out of harms way. #2 would be just good ol common sense, for once u draw that weapon, then the trials begin.

again just my opinion from a 65 year old man who carry's 24/7 BUT u would never know it...

Tacbandit
October 17, 2008, 05:31 PM
Quote:
"Tacbandit...If I could conceal my 1949 mod 94 Winchester .30-30 on my person when I go to town I would. I'm damned good with it as it and I have been very good friends for 50 years. But I can't seem to find a holster that will work. So what I said above still stands...My main battery for going to town is a Kimber Ultra Crimson Carry II. It will sufice until I get home and back to my .30 WCF. I doubt that the bad guy will be able to follow me home though."


Bushmaster, I am in agreement with you on this part of your post. However,
with the scenario that the original poster gave on this thread, I was only trying to make the point that we need to be proficient with whatever handgun we have, but that having a handgun is not the answer to every
problem we encounter...and that having other weapons would be wisdom...
Seems that you'd understand that, as you seem to have others...i.e. your
model 94 Winchester .30-30...etc...Good luck...:)

Gunfighter123
October 17, 2008, 09:50 PM
For me , it would be my ParaOrdnance P-14 Limited. Has ambi-safeties and 14+ rounds of .45 ACP ----- plus I know this gun works 99.9%

FlyinBryan
October 17, 2008, 11:09 PM
its easy to tell a great fighting pistol from all the rest. there are always clues.

1. you should look for the number "19" on the pistol. this can be a very telling sign of its fighting pedigree.

2. if your able to find the "19" , turn your pursuit towards something with a little more balanced and symmetrical profile, like an "11".

if you can find a pistol with the previously mentioned attributes, you can be sure you are looking at the finest fighting pistol in the world.

lapd swat, usmc special forces, usarmy airborne rangers, and the united states secret service all swear by it.

i strongly suggest you get a new one while supplies last.

if you cant find a new one, good luck trying to find a used one as they are fairly new (100 or so years)

its an amazing testament to the design that after 100 years, its still the backbone of the finest competition raceguns and special ops weapons on the planet.

M203Sniper
October 18, 2008, 03:02 AM
Sorry,

Sir I understand that you are in the market for the BEST fighting pistol the world has ever known. I can understand this may be a tough decision for a person to make, after considering the many options in the long history of firearms and more specifically the history of firearms in the hands of private citizens I submit the following;

There is simply no such thing.


What you are truly in the market for is the most reliable firearm available that meets the following requirements-

1. It is available in the most powerful cartridge you can control.
2. It is available in that chambering (.40 S&W, .45ACP et al) commercially.
3. It fits your hand.
4. It is affordable. (Including parts & repair)

The "Fighting" part of a firearm is contained behind the hammer, or the way they summed it up for us in weapons school in the Marine Corps "One Mind any Weapon"





I believe the answer to your question is for you to decide.
What handgun would I be comfortable in a fight with, and where can I get some training?

Semper Fi.
:)

ChCx2744
October 18, 2008, 06:07 PM
Whatever YOU are proficient with. You can put a Desert Eagle or FN Five-seveN in my hands and I probably wouldn't know what to expect; but you put a Beretta 92 or S&W J-Frame .357 in my hand...I'm a friggin ACE. It all depends on what YOU are most comftorable with and familiar with.

kitsapcharly
October 18, 2008, 11:43 PM
Complicating all this is the special deals some companies make to put guns in official hands where they sell them at almost a loss so they can say in their ads the "officials" use them.
Get thee to a range that rentsguns and then try different ones. See what works best for you. Beats listening to everybody push their favorite. The wrong gun in the wrong caliber with the wrong bullet choice is better than no gun so you can go only just so far wrong.:uhoh:
If anybody suggests a gun model ask what about the customer service.
I say Kel-Tec, Bersa/Firestorm and Springfield Armory(XD, etc.) are all good and stand behind what they sell. EAA Witness, Taurus and Beretta should be avoided...just don't go there.
Really, try them out...best of luck.:)

WARDER
October 19, 2008, 06:12 AM
speaking from experience the best fighting pistol is --the one you have with you the time that you need it .

sniper5
October 19, 2008, 06:45 AM
The ideal fighting pistol is the one that you feel comfortable trusting your life to.

ChCx2744
November 24, 2008, 06:40 AM
As you can see, the ACTUAL and MOST ACCURATE answer to this thread is what a majority / 99.9% of ANY gunowner / shooter will say: Whatever gun YOU are proficient with.

Matrix187
November 24, 2008, 10:22 AM
Theres plenty out there, but some have a better track record. A reliable Colt 1911 setup, Glock 17/19, CZ SP-01, CZ P-01 (both CZs are NATO approved), Hi Power, CZ 75. Those are the main guns that stick out to me that seem to have the best track record for reliability and wide spread use. The XD is a good pistol but I wouldn't use one over a glock.

jlh26oo
November 24, 2008, 02:32 PM
After <obligatory "rifle" sidestep answer>....

The GLOCK 20 is going to get you a little more automotive penetration than most handgun calibers. Pretty good bullet & velocity for having 15 + 1 of them, basically two and a half hunting revolvers at a fraction of the weight. GLOCK durability, reliability, accuracy, simplicity etc. with magnum caliber power x 16. What I would say is (capital) best "fighting" pistol (vs. I.E. C.C.W.'s etc).

1911 guy
November 24, 2008, 02:36 PM
XD in .45 is very fine. I bought my Dad one for his birthday two years ago and paid for two classes. Wouldn't have dropped the money on junk.

Working the gun one handed isn't as much a design issue as it is a training issue. Take some classes and you'll be amazed at what you can do with "just a hadgun". Including running the gun one-handed.

* In order of importance: 1)Mindset 2)Skill 3)Equipment *

"Fighting Pistol" is a term bandied about by people with nothing better to do. Much like "Assault Rifle". Meaningless and ever-changing. If you're a 72 year old woman in the middle of a mugging, your late husbands .32 is your fighting gun. Oh, and don't forget to tell the guys at Lexington and Concord they don't have proper assault rifles.

ZeBool
November 24, 2008, 02:40 PM
XD's are very nice guns. I carry an XD9 service. I like them as much as I do because of them feeling/handling like a 1911, with the advantage of higher capacity. But if the 1911 is the root of all of this awesomeness, then my vote is obvious...

ztnedman1
November 25, 2008, 11:21 AM
If armaggedon breaks out and all your down to is your pistol, then its over anyways.

Pistol is a good Secondary, Dont worry about "fighting pistol", if it can make noise and get you to a primary weapon then its a great "fighting pistol".

FoMoGo
November 25, 2008, 12:45 PM
Another vote for the 1911.
However I dont feel undergunned at all with my S&W M21 with my handloads.
I can put all shots on target as fast as I can pull the trigger.
If I happen to be aiming at a zombie, he is going down as hard as from any other commonly carried pistol.
I can jam the muzzle up against someone in close quarters without worries of the pistol being pushed out of battery and not firing.
My reloading take a little longer than with an auto... if the person has practiced... and I am amazed to see how many people dont.

Shoot what you are most comfortable with.
If you are not comfortable, and cant hit... you may as well be setting off firecrackers.


Jim

krs
November 25, 2008, 01:29 PM
I have my Colt New Agent with nine mags in an old russian ammo belt carrier. That or my Glock 19 with seven full mags.

Best fighting pistol would be a Sig 556 - gotta' get me one of those before the Obamaban.

Drail
November 25, 2008, 01:49 PM
S&W Model 58.

jocko
November 25, 2008, 02:55 PM
a well tuned G19 is just an awsome fightin gun. I have one worked over completey by Accurate_iron and trust me guys I am 65 and was never a great shooter, but this damn G19 just shoots right where I aim. The smooth trigger system now is just awsome.

I can't say enough about this G19. Thanks Mike at Accurate-Iron, you amazed me with what you can do to this gun. the grip stippling and reduction is totally awsome. The Dawson fiber optic adjustable sites are in a class all by themselves.

to me it is just so nice to go out to the range and actually hit what I am aiming at. Makes me feel young again...

benderx4
November 25, 2008, 03:17 PM
HK USP45F

Which is why I have them located all throughout my home.

13 rounds of 45acp JHP just waiting for the day I pray will never happen.

squinty
November 27, 2008, 12:57 PM
If you want to designate a gun your "fighting gun" (as opposed, I guess, to a 'plinking' gun, 'concealed carry' gun, 'target gun' or 'hunting gun') then I would think the first concern would be durability and reliability. Which brings me to my XD45 experience.

I'm what marketing experts call an "early adopter" - which means I have a bad habit of buying the "beta" version of everything that comes out. The second handgun I ever bought was one of the first XD45 pistols to come out. My experience: for maybe a thousand rounds it was an AWESOME gun. Tack driver accurate, comfy to shoot, reliable, felt better in my hand than a Glock 21 and had a fully ramped/supported barrel and it held 14 rounds of 45 ACP ammunition which at the time I felt was the "Only" fighting round. (I talked to a lot of old timers who had an emotional attachment to .45.)

Then the magazines started to deform - they would bulge out right behind the top round, maybe from the round bouncing against the rim of the mag during recoil, and as the deformity became more pronounced feeding suffered. Springfield Armory replaced them. Life was beautiful again for many more hundreds of rounds (I shot ALOT back then) but the new mags deformed, slowly but surely. SA replaced them again. Even with new mags, though, feeding suffered. I sent the gun in to SA. They recut the locking block, I think they said? The gun never shot as accurately after that, and with tears in my eyes I sold it. Used the money to put a Sig on layaway.

Springfield Armory, mind, is still an excellent company. I have one of their 1911s and it has been a joy to shoot. I covet their M1a rifles (can't afford one) and their customer service is prompt and efficient. I still don't have a hi-cap .45 in my collection, which I regret, but if I ever buy another XD it will be a 9mm. These days I rely more on the Sig p220 carry that I bought with a down payment from the sale of the XD. If you have a lot of magazines to rotate, I guess the XD .45 is fine. And they may have fixed that problem with the mags by now. But if you keep it, keep a lot of replacement mags and reserve a few for carry/social work, and exempt those mags from heavy, repeated range sessions. If you decide to go with some other gun than the XD as your "fighting gun" go with an older, time tested design. Let the manufacturer work out any bugs and implement any necessary recalls to their new, innovative designs before you spend your money on a new gun.

KINGMAX
November 27, 2008, 12:59 PM
GLOCK 21 = .45 acp, S&W 686-1 in .357

ar10
November 27, 2008, 04:49 PM
One that doesn't jamb, that includes rifles and shotguns. :rolleyes: Or using it as a club w/o breaking apart.

gunnie
November 28, 2008, 04:18 AM
one that is loaded and available when you need it [badly].

gunnie

michiganfan
November 28, 2008, 08:38 AM
GLOCK he shouts.

DawgFvr
November 29, 2008, 03:43 PM
Pistols do not fight. Humans do...and when they do fight, side arms fall into the "very last choice" scenario.

That being said, situation would dictate what side arm would be the better choice. Everything depends on the situation.

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