So what is the point?


Alan Fud
September 13, 2003, 02:10 AM
WARNING: There may not be any point to what I'm about to say ... I was walking in the town of Easton, PA earlier today legally carrying a concealed firearm on my person (PA recognizes my FL license until my PA license is issued). About a hundred yards away (maybe more, maybe less) was a bridge which crossed over the river into NJ.

I stood there and watched as people walked & drove across it. Some leaving PA and entering NJ while others were leaving NJ and entering PA.

That's when I thought to myself ... If I didn't know and walked across, I would be suddenly commiting a felony. If I walked a hundred yards to the left (further in PA) and it was discovered that I was carry a firearm, there would be no problem unless I was printing or the gun was exposed. Otherwise, I would be doing nothing wrong and could go on my merry way.

If I walked a hundred yards in the opposite direction in NJ, and it was discovered that I was carrying a firearm, the law requires that I be arrested and if found guilty (which, would mostlikely be the case), I would be sentenced to a few years in jail at a minimum.

Now, looking at this from a very simple perspective and keeping state boarders out of it ... if I'm not doing anything wrong by walking to the left, why am I doing something wrong by walking to the right?

Nobody is being hurt. Nobody is being threatened. Nobody is being robbed. Etc. Yet going one way is a felony and going the other isn't.

Doesn't this strike anyone else as being strange?

Shouldn't a felony be something "bad"? Something that you intentionally do that causes some kind of harm to another person (either physically, emotionally, financially, etc.)?

Again, looking at it in those purely simple terms, it just doesn't make any sense to me. Doesn't it seem equally illogical to anyone else?

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September 13, 2003, 02:44 AM
I hear you Alan, I live in Mo but work in KS and every day I drive accross the state line twice. I have thought about what your saying many times and have come to the conclusion that any time crossing a state line makes you a felon there is probably something wrong with the law. I not saying that it should be a litmus test or anything but I hope you get the picture. Unfortunately our rights are infringed in some states more than others:(

September 13, 2003, 02:54 AM
I and another person found ourselves just across the street from MO. Concealed means concealed...I walked accross the street, bought a soda and back across the street in less than a min. I didn't "feel" any different, nobody noticed us...but the mere fact just crossing a two lane rural road determined the fact in one state I could legally CCW and defend myself and couldn't in the other. Honest, I didn't know at the time...he informed after the fact the state line ran that way. Felony by omisson I guess. Strange nonetheless.

NO Gun Laws , now that would be great, alleviate the situations we both experienced.

Standing Wolf
September 13, 2003, 11:53 AM
Doesn't this strike anyone else as being strange?

Yep. My Colorado driver's license is valid in all 50 states and assorted foreign countries; my Colorado permit to carry concealed hand guns, however, is valid in a handful of states and no foreign countries I've ever heard of.

Guess I'll have to reread the Second Amendment: I must've missed something.

4v50 Gary
September 13, 2003, 12:25 PM
Victimless crime is what they call it. Who's the victim? Why, the State and the order it seeks to preserve. Does it make sense? Depends on the "victimless crime."

Some argue prostitution is a victimless crime. Property owners can be considered as victims if their property value declines. If druggies and dealers move in then property really goes down. Then let's not forget that the prostitute may also be considered a victim. If such is true, then prostitution is not a victimless crime and blah blah blah as it goes.

Laws that encourages crime, like bans on guns, makes society and its members the victim. The criminals in this case are the politcos who enact such disabling legislation.

September 13, 2003, 12:32 PM
When you break the word of the law is when things don't make's the spirit of the law that's tougher, when it's open to a person's interpretation!

Baba Louie
September 13, 2003, 01:07 PM
I hear ya FUD

Once in a great while, we go out to Pahrump to visit GF's parents and I bring along a firearm or two to go plinking in the desert whist they visit and have a good old time.

Now 444 has informed me that the dry lake bed south of town straddles the CA border... hmmmmm...

Ruger 10/22 with 6-7 of those evil 30 rd. ramline mags chock full of assault bullets, maybe a Glock or two and a few 15 - 19 rd. mags, maybe an AR-15 with several of the old 20 rd mags. Uh, oh Baba, breakin the law, breakin the law...

Well, unlike Alan's scenario, there ain't no bridge or clearly demarcated painted line in the blow-sand and I just might have been somewhere I shouldn't... didn't see any CHP's or San Bernadino (is that right?) Co. Sheriff Deputies, lightning didn't strike me and I certainly didn't feeeeel felonious, but I mighta coulda been.

There have been numerous times when I went back to MO to visit parental units that I know I was commiting a crime against the Great State of MO (and one of my cousins is in the MO H.P. ...gulp...), two of my uncles were Cops in Indep MO and even after they retired they might have sported something for protection now and again.

The part that really rubs me the wrong way is should I ever need to protect myself to continue breathing and walking gods green earth in either of those jurisdictions (well, maybe not MO now), and waited for the authorities to come to the rescue after the fact, I'd be branded a felon, lose all of my toys, do some time in the grey bar hotel and never again be "legally" able to own or purchase even a knife, bow, firestick or vote...

But at least I'd (hopefully) be alive to tell the tale. All because of the crytallized prejudices of a particular set of politicians who control the majority of an assembly where I don't reside (or even if I did reside therein)

So, nowadays, I tell my kids I wouldn't touch ice cream if it were illegal, let alone make some of my own at home.

I'm such a wuss.

Daddy always said, "Little Baba Louie, ride with the law, not agin it"

"WARNING: There may not be any point to what I just said... "


September 13, 2003, 01:11 PM
You are completely correct, but that is irrelevant.
It has nothing to do with not hurting anyone, it has to do with questioning the authority of the ruliing class.
You must obey.

September 13, 2003, 01:49 PM
the act they are regulating is malum prohbitum or something like that
not inherently wrong, just the government decided to regulate it
generally these things have light penatlies
but not this one
that is messed up.

Mal H
September 13, 2003, 03:28 PM
You're absolutely right, Alan. The logic of it doesn't make sense on the surface. But what you are dealing with is called a boundary condition. It applies not only to laws of the land(s) but to laws of nature as well. Across the northern border of Virginia lies Maryland. Virginia = Good; Maryland = Bad. If I walk 100 yards south of that border, I'm fine, no problems, and that is with or without a gun. If I walk 100 yards north of that border ... I'll drown. The Potomac River is entirely within the boundaries of Maryland. :)

Crossing a boundary, any boundary, will cause a change in conditions otherwise there would be no boundary by definition. I guess what I'm trying to say, and not very well, is that if the laws, the government, the taxes, the heritage, etc. of NJ were all exactly the same as in PA, then there would be no NJ, it would all be PA (or vice versa).

Bruce H
September 13, 2003, 03:34 PM
We are all to blame. If the supreme court justices and the prosecutors responsible for Miller would have immediately been covered with petrochemical byproduct and fowl clothing it would be a different world. These laws exist because we let them.

September 14, 2003, 12:11 AM
Yes, it is odd and doesn't make any sense, but I can one up ya' on that. I am soon to get a FL non-res permit. It is good in about half the country, including PA (the main reason I'm getting it is to carry in PA and I can't get a PA permit since I don't have a MD permit but that is another story). When I get it I'll be legal in most of the US and all of PA. However, just before I cross the state line I'll have to stop my car, unload my gun, stash the ammo up front and lock the gun up in the trunk (and in a case) or I'll be illegal. I'll be fine carrying in PA but when I come home to MD, where I live, I'll be breaking the law if I forget even one step (no carry, no loaded guns, a loaded mag is a loaded gun, gun stored in trunk and in seperate case as well and ammo stored in passenger compartment). Oh yeah, after I'm in MD with a gun in the trunk I'll be in violation of the law if I even stop for gas, food or a pit stop, but in PA I would be able to legally carry.:rolleyes:

September 14, 2003, 01:07 AM
It reminds me of the Simpsons episode where they go to Australia and Homer is bouncing back and forth over the embassy line.

"I'm a felon! Now I'm I'm a felon! Now I'm not..." :rolleyes:

Like that magic ring 1000 feet around schools....

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