[cptmike03]

Hey all,
I've recently gotten into handloading, and as a result, started getting serious about revolvers again. Among others, Last week I picked up a brand new Ruger GP100 6inch model. I love it, I shot it once this weekend and it was a tack driver. With some of my weaker lead handloads, I was putting rounds virtually through the same hole.

The problem came afterwards when I went to clean it. I used a universal fit (cannot remember the brand) brass muzzle guard that I have used in the past on numerous firearms, including revolvers with no ill effect. This time, however, it left several scratches in the barrel horizontal with the muzzle. They are not all the way around the barrel like a circle, but broken up into 4 or 5 sections of scratches.

I cannot tell you how angry I was. The revolver has maybe 60rds through it total. I did call Ruger and they quoted me $240+shipping to rebarrel the thing!:what I think that is very high, as with shipping it will be more then half the cost of the revolver. They also said, however, not to worry about it if it is light scratches.

Is there any way to fix this other then rebarreling? Is this a common problem and/or a major issue? Is there a chance that this will not affect accuracy or will smooth with time?

I have experience cleaning virtually every type of firearm and have never had this type of problem. I, like most of you, are meticulous when it comes to cleaning and maintenance. I attached some pictures of the problem so everyone can see. It was the best I could do with my pocket camera and a flashlight.

Thanks in advance,
Mike

86485

[cptmike03]

Here is another picture

Thanks again

86486

[Zeede]

Those are pretty decent pics, I would say. It's hard to say what effect those scratches will have on accuracy, but if it bothers you enough then I would definitely send it to get rebarreled.

Cameron

[GP100man]

looks as if the biggest part of the scratches are in foulin material .
shoot some more & compare groups observe scratches.
switch to a cleanin rod made out a aluminumor plastic .
fire lapping????

GP100man

[cptmike03]

It looks worse in person then in the pictures because of the better light. There are also some other big ones that I could not get with the camera. The rod is alum, and I wish they sold a plastic muzzle guard. I have only seen one, and it came in a friend's Tetra gun cleaning kit. I will definitly be buying a plastic or graphite rod. I have a coated one, but it is not long enough for the 6 inch barrel.

[The Bushmaster]

Fire the dang thing and see if it is off any from your last firing. And stop using a muzzle guard. They are useless (as you have noticed [I hope])...

I have brass rods and never have I ever damaged a muzzle with them especially inside the barrel. How did a muzzle guard do that??

[cptmike03]

Bushmaster,
I have no idea. I've used it before with no problems. Boy was I mad, great way to start off with a brand new revolver:cuss:

I dont have a brass rod, but have a graphite one I use on shotguns with no ill effect.

[janobles14]

cptmike,

shoot the hardest lead or copper jackets you can find and it may take out the scratches. if you are thinking of rebarreling then you might get away with this for the cost of the ammo. you might also get a mop and coat it with some flintz metal polish while chucked up to a drill. so long as you dont mess up the crown then you should be ok.

OR i would just fire and see if accuracy is affected and then live and learn. still sucks though, man. hate it for you.

[earplug]

As your cleaning rod is much softer then the barrel steel. I say its simple copper jacket fouling, or a rub mark from your cleaning actions.
Don't worry, shoot more clean less.
You could put a plastic soda straw around your cleaning rod next time, to check if the mark is from firing or cleaning.
As you didn't say anything about down range performance,
I'm supposed to rate this as a cosmetic problem?

[Majic]

Brass is softer than steel and can in no way scratch steel. I think you are placing the blame in the wrong place.

[Lurp]

Most likely caused by shooting FMJ's through your gun. I've seen it before after putting a bunch of .357 FMJ through a Ruger SP101. It takes a lot of dedication to get it out of there though :uhoh: Tried soaking the barrel in Hoppes copper solvent for a while, but only lessened it. As others have stated, I imagine it is most likely not scratches as brass is much softer than your barrel steel.

[Sheldon]

I have to say I wouldn't bother putting money into the gun unless I see a BIG increase in performance. I doubt the scratches shown will have much if any effect on your accuracy. Give it some time before getting the barrel replaced and you may decide it isn't worth the hassle or expense.

[Sheldon]

I have to say I wouldn't bother putting money into the gun unless I see a BIG increase in performance. I doubt the scratches shown will have much if any effect on your accuracy. Give it some time before getting the barrel replaced and you may decide it isn't worth the hassle or expense.

[Sheldon]

I have to say I wouldn't bother putting money into the gun unless I see a BIG increase in performance. I doubt the scratches shown will have much if any effect on your accuracy. Give it some time before getting the barrel replaced and you may decide it isn't worth the hassle or expense.

[mnrivrat]

I would do a fire lapping, or hand lapping, before replacing a barrel. I also believe you are not going to see a significant accuracy difference if you just go ahead and shoot it.

[JohnKSa]

I wouldn't do ANYTHING until I verified that there was a problem that could be demonstrated at the range.

[The Bushmaster]

cptmike03...I bet you are looking at a no problem except one you may have invented. Go shot it and see what happens. Let me know what you find.

[rcmodel]

I agree that there is no possible way a brass bore guide did that.

What I believe you have is simply aluminum rub-off from the sharp end of the cleaning rod, on top of a dirty or leaded bore.

If the barrel was clean clear down to the stainless steel, the scratches would be the same color as the rifling.

I'd shoot it again, perhaps with some jacketed bullets, and I bet the "scratches" simply disappear.

But back to the dirty bore.

Give it a really good scrubbing with a bronze bore brush & powder solvent and see if you can get it stainless steel color again.

You might even want to use some JB Bore Paste on a bore size jag and see what's really in there!

rcmodel

[DMZ]

Try this test.

Remove the grips and take your brass muzzle guard and try to scratch the metal underneath the grips with it. See if it doesn't leave a streak of brass on the stainless steel.

On the scales of hardness, brass is a 3 on Moh's and a 4.5 on Rosiwal's. Stainless steel is a 6 on Moh's and a 37 on Rosiwal's.

[dagger dog]

The area that the scratches are on should not cause an accuracy problem , if they were on the crown at the edge of the muzzle they coud affect the bullet as it makes its final departure from the barrel.

Yeah it's a shame you scratched it but take it out and shoot it before you go off the deep end. You most likley won't have any ill effects from the scratches.

[mgregg85]

Looks like copper fouling.

[cptmike03]

First off, let me say thanks to everyone who responded. Your comments and future comments are much appreciated.

I don’t think the scratches are from copper fouling, as they are the same color as the barrel and the aluminum rod. I thought the muzzle guard might be the culprit because it may have left these marks where the tip in inserted in the barrel. Maybe not really a “universal fit” like the package said.

Earplug, I love the straw around the rod idea! I’ll have to try that next time. It might be aluminum run off, but it appears to be scratches in the steel of the barrel. It does look more pronounced in person with better light then in the pictures.

Like Janobles said, I will try to shoot it this weekend with some factory FMJ rounds to see if it smoothes out.

Lurp….did the marks you saw from shooting FMJs look like this? I would think the marks would be the other way and it’s only near the muzzle where the muzzle guard would have touched. When this happened to you were the marks only near the muzzle too?

I have some lead away patches. Maybe I should put one or two down the bore?

I will shoot it again this weekend using the exact same ammo that I used the first time. If there is no change in accuracy, I will not do anything about this. And I am working on getting a plastic/carbon rod for this too.

Mike

[SlamFire1]

Go shoot it. I suspect it will shoot just fine.

[tipoc]

Yep if all that came into contact with the barrel was aluminum or brass there will be no scratches. Neither could scratch the steel.

tipoc

[easyrider6042004@yahoo.ca]

Shoot it first to check for accuracy, before it drives you crazy. Before then, don't worry about it. I don't think those scratches will affect accuracy, if they are scratches at all.

[Jeff F]

I think your stressing over nothing. It kind of looks like fouling. What were you shooting ammo wise?

[JCMAG]

I didn't see anything in the pictures :uhoh:

Maybe I don't have a trained eye for these sorts of things, but it looks like fouling to me, too... Either way, unless the scratches are in the crown of the barrel, accuracy should not be greatly effected.

[44Magnum]

Here's what I don't get. If it truly was the bore guide why are there marks at three different depths? I don't know about your bore guide, but mine does not contact the barrel that far in either.

[Lurp]

cptmike03, my barrel had the streaks going all the way down the rifling. I can't tell that well from your pictures, but my streaks were more of a copper color and they followed the rifling in the barrel. I still haven't been able to get it all out and they come back everytime I shoot more FMJ's or SJHP's. When I looked at your photo's it's the first thing I thought of considering it bothered me for a while also...I originally thought it came from my copper bore brush, but it's just not possible because of hardness, then I noticed it got worse with FMJ's so I've come to the conclusion it must be copper fouling. Good luck!

[PRM]

The scratches should not bother the accuracy, muzzle appears ok - guns are made to use and are going to pick up "some character." Spend the money on ammo and enjoy it. If you have to have a perfect gun, replace the barrel and then put it in a safe. Soon as you start using it, some other "imperfection" will happen.

[John C]

I'd take a toothpick and run it over the scratches to try to get a feel of how deep they are. If they're not deep, it might just be fouling. As regular as they appear, are you sure they're not machining marks from the factory?

I agree with the suggestion to just shoot it and not worry about it. It sounds like you're a meticulous guy, so just the thought of them being there might bug you too much. You could try polishing them out with jb bore paste, or just pay a gunsmith to lop off the last 1/2 or full inch of the barrel and recrown. In fact, a 5 inch gp100 sounds awesome!

-John

[cptmike03]

Thank you for all your advice!

I shot it over the weekend and the accuracy seemed pretty good. However, after cleaning it, I also discovered deep scraches in the crane (prob machine marks) and 3 of the 6 chambers will lock up tight with the trigger held and the hammer down, while the other 3 have side to side play movement. I also have a brand new, New Vaquero in .45LC that has side to side play when every chamber is in lock up. A small amount, but I am not sure that it should be there (you can hear it).

I called Ruger and they said to send them back, which I will after one more range trip this weekend. The women on the phone was very nice, and I am sure they will make it right. Believe me, I love Rugers and still refuse to buy S&W because of the locks and 2 piece barrels. I would love to have a single action Ruger .44 mag, which I can hopefully get soon.

Thanks again,
Mike

[WARDER]

hi, there is no way brass would scratch the barrel ,if these are scratches you will find this has been done in the makeing of the weapon and you have only noticed it when the barrel has been fowled.

[tipoc]

3 of the 6 chambers will lock up tight with the trigger held and the hammer down, while the other 3 have side to side play movement. I also have a brand new, New Vaquero in .45LC that has side to side play when every chamber is in lock up. A small amount, but I am not sure that it should be there (you can hear it).

Some play is normal.

tipoc

[1858]

This is probably a stupid question but did you look in the end of the barrel BEFORE you shot and cleaned the revolver for the first time? Like many here, I don't believe that a brass or aluminum cleaning tool is going to make scratches like that in a stainless steel barrel. How was the revolver displayed in the gun shop? Could they have inserted something in the barrel as a way to display the revolver?

Good luck either way.

[cptmike03]

1858,
I did clean it prior to shooting it, but do not remember seeing those in the barrel. They could have been there, but I dont remember seeing them. Either way, it's going back to ruger after this weekend.

How much play is normal in the RNV? Is hearing a bit of rattle normal? I have a Uberti SAA clone that has much less play then the RNV.

[cptmike03]

Oh, and it was not displayed in the gun shop at all, it was ordered for me.

Thanks again

[1858]

cptmike03, I recently bought a Ruger Redhawk in .45 Colt and it "rattles" too but it's not the cylinder that's rattling, it's the safety mechanism which Ruger calls a transfer bar if I remember correctly. It sort of sounds like the revolver has rounds in the chamber even when it doesn't ... if you know what I mean. I have a Colt Python, a S&W 629 and two USFA Rodeos and none of them have a transfer bar safety and none of them rattle. The cylinder does have a little play but nothing excessive.

:)

[krs]

It's true that brass and aluminum won't scratch a barrel, but it's also true that tiny bits of steel or other hard material can imbed into brass and aluminum turning the soft metal into an impregnated file of sorts.

Saying that a soft metal rod or muzzle protector cannot scratch steel is like saying that sandpaper will not sand wood - It's only paper after all.