So I bought a rifle from my Step-Father


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LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
October 15, 2008, 12:41 AM
And it's a Savage Model 110. Not a newer M10, but is stamped 110.
I need some help.

This is a 25 yard group. About 1.25" across. Shouldn't it be like this out at 100 yards? I'm a little scared to find out how far off it'll be then.
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w25/Imatas121/p_00069.jpg

But anyways, here're some pics of the gun (sorry, only camera at the moment is a phone).
With Step-Dad's borrowed bi-pod:
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w25/Imatas121/p_00070.jpg

With new bi-pod put on my me:
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w25/Imatas121/p_00071.jpg
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w25/Imatas121/p_00074.jpg
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w25/Imatas121/p_00075.jpg
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w25/Imatas121/p_00076.jpg

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kfranz
October 15, 2008, 12:46 AM
You sure the problem isn't the loose nut behind the trigger? Seriously, there's no way to tell from here if the problem lies with the equipment or the operator. Shoot it some more and at a greater distance, then assess.

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
October 15, 2008, 12:54 AM
at fifty yards the groups are a little over double. I'll have to do it again, but it was double.

MrCleanOK
October 15, 2008, 12:56 AM
Shoot it some more, find a load that works with the rifle, and then make a judgement. My 110 in .243 Win. is a tack driver. That's not to say that the operator always does his part, but the rifle is good.

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
October 15, 2008, 12:58 AM
It's probably the same as mine then. I'll give it another look over, see if I can't find anything loose on it.

GunNut
October 15, 2008, 01:25 AM
Take the bipod off and shoot it off of a good rifle rest. More than likely the bipod is making the flimsy stock contact the barrel and affecting accuracy.

Also is everything nice and tight? The scope mounts, rings and stock screws?

You really need to try it out at 100yds and have a friend shoot it too.

rangerruck
October 15, 2008, 04:22 AM
if you are using factory ammo, get more variety. If you have not cleaned it very well, especially for copper, GET ON IT!!! if you have not checked the freefloat, before, and during, while it heats up, to see if the freefloat hasn't changed, get on that as well. then, just make sure all screws are tight, front takedown screw is at about 25 lbs. and go from there.

rangerruck
October 15, 2008, 04:23 AM
also , what are you shooting off? that is to say, what are your rests? cuz if it is the bipod, then that is most of your trouble right there...
If you have not shot it, without the bipod attached, take it off, then reshoot.

ImARugerFan
October 15, 2008, 10:25 AM
Close enough in my book!

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
October 15, 2008, 01:04 PM
Well it shot like that without the bi-pod, as well as with. It ain't making a difference as far as the bi-pod.

Haven't had a chance to check any of the action screws.

I think the problem may rest with the barrel, it looks a little used (rifling isn't all that pronounced). My K31 has better rifling and it was a service rifle and 64 years old.

I'll check all the above and let you all know.

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
October 15, 2008, 01:06 PM
Oh, ImARugerFan:

That's 25 yards.

skinewmexico
October 15, 2008, 01:43 PM
Give it to me. The only way to dispose of that properly is to screw a Shilen 6BR barrel onto it.

Seriously, I'd think it has to be a dirty bore/loose action screw/loose optic situation.

kenjs1
October 15, 2008, 02:17 PM
Basically,....what rangerruck said. If you are confident in the scope ????? first thing in my book are always the action screws. I would be taking the whole thing apart. Since the barrel is suspect I would use some bore paste and clean and reclean. Check the crown too -is it uneven or jagged?? Look at the barrel channel for uneven wear and sand if needed, how is the bedding?, reassemble tight as snot and try her again. What is the trigger like???? Don't worry, you'll get it figured out, then your F_I_L will be kicking himself.

Auburn1992
October 15, 2008, 02:24 PM
Just curious, what caliber is it?

Stump Water
October 15, 2008, 02:30 PM
what are you shooting off? that is to say, what are your rests? cuz if it is the bipod, then that is most of your trouble right there...
If you have not shot it, without the bipod attached, take it off, then reshoot.

I'm curious, rangerruck, about why you would say that the bipod is "most of the trouble"?

HB
October 15, 2008, 03:17 PM
Bi-pods somethings make the gun jump and vibrate differently on each shot, so if you are not putting consistent amount of pressure your shots might be off.

The group isn't that bad, tighten everything up, shoot it with different ammo and PRACTICE.


HB

Wolfgang2000
October 15, 2008, 06:30 PM
Did you zero the rifle to YOU? The group is excellent. Just adjust the scope to your eye.

rangerruck
October 15, 2008, 07:13 PM
... I'm down with hb, if you shoot off a bipod, also they will bend and flex, and transfer that energy to your bbl, no matter what you do, simply a matter of physics. unless you are shooting it off of a mylar blank, so the feet easily slide around...

MrCleanOK
October 15, 2008, 07:15 PM
Wolfgang, at 25 yards that is not an excellent group

skinewmexico
October 15, 2008, 07:18 PM
Maybe it's too close, and they aren't stabilized.

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
October 16, 2008, 09:16 AM
I will try all that you're suggesting. I will take apart and put the rifle back together.

The trigger is absolutely divine. It's nice and light, absolutely no trigger creep... and I think it's set for 2.5 lbs, but I'll find that one out.

Caliber is .243 Winchester. This rifle is older, and the stamping on the reciever/bbl says Model 110.

How do the snipers get so accurate if the bi-pods throw the shots off? I understand the flexing and transferring the energy to the barrel.

The scope is set up for me, and it's mounted rock-solid.

Barrel has been cleaned up some, but I need to get a boresnake to do a better job. The rifling does look a little worn, and I will try to post a picture of it soon.

Skinewmexico,
I was actually wondering the same thing, but the groups were worse out to 50 yards, a little more than double what the 25 yard picture above shows.

moooose102
October 16, 2008, 10:23 AM
i leaned a lesson the hard way, clean the heck out of the barrel with NEW copper removing solvent. tighten up the action mounting screws, put the rifle in a GOOD rifle rest, or sandbag the heck out of it and shoot from 100 yards. there really isnt any way of telling where or how well it is going to shoot @ 100 yards, until you do. my 300 mag is supposed to shoot 2" high @ 100 yards to be right on @ 200. if i sight it in like that, i am way off @ 200. dont ask me why, but it is. shoot it and zero it at the yardage you want to shoot at. you will probably be pleasantly suprised.

Stump Water
October 16, 2008, 10:42 AM
... I'm down with hb, if you shoot off a bipod, also they will bend and flex, and transfer that energy to your bbl, no matter what you do, simply a matter of physics. unless you are shooting it off of a mylar blank, so the feet easily slide around...

I suppose. However, with my bolt actions nothing is touching the barrel, except the receiver. I shoot my best groups with a Harris bipod (non-swiveling) on the front and sand bags in the back... rock solid.

skinewmexico
October 16, 2008, 10:58 AM
How do the snipers get so accurate if the bi-pods throw the shots off? I understand the flexing and transferring the energy to the barrel.

Real snipers are shooting minute-of-man, which is about 6 MOA at 100 yards. They shoot for hits, not for groups.

Wolfgang2000
October 16, 2008, 02:40 PM
MrCleanOK
Wolfgang, at 25 yards that is not an excellent group

Yes it is!! It's one hole except for one flier that was probably the shooters fault.

The group is low and to the right of the center, that is just a scope adjustment. Now if the scope can't be adjusted THEN he has a problem.

If he wants to check the bi-pod all he has to do is set the rifle up on the bi-pod, then see if he can slide a dollar bill between the stock and the barrel. (About all it's good for now days:eek::neener:) If he can it's not the bi-pod.

Everyone holds a rifle a little different. It's the same for looking down the scope. It's the reason we have to zero after we bore sight it.

In a practical world loose the bi-pod, it a excellent hunter. Bambi won't know the difference.

Stump Water
October 16, 2008, 03:21 PM
Real snipers are shooting minute-of-man, which is about 6 MOA at 100 yards.

Huh?

They shoot for hits, not for groups.

If you can't group, then you can't hit. (Except, of course, with the occasional intervention of lady luck.)

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
October 17, 2008, 08:58 AM
I tightened the action screws on the rifle, (while doing so, dissasembled.)
Reassembled, cranked the action screws down, cleaned the bore really good, CLP, and this copper remover stuff my stepdad has for it (don't know what it's called, part of the label was missing).

32winspl
October 18, 2008, 04:16 AM
Please, try shooting some groups at 100 yds. If you're shooting the same group size at 100 yards, we're talking a whole different rifle. Yes, it's possible that your 100 yard groups will be 4x your 25 yd groups or more. But I seriously doubt it. Any "percieved" 25 yard probs may be magnified or diminished at 100 yards. Don't forget that every rifle will have a favorite load and one it hates.

A Buddy and his Dad bought consecutive serial numbered M700 rifles in .27o Win. One shot Federals (130s) like they were laser beams, and the other hummed with Winchester 150s.
I'd still like to know how your rifle shoots at 100 yards.

Dookie
October 18, 2008, 04:32 AM
I'd still like to know how your rifle shoots at 100 yards.with multiple different types and grains of ammo. And possibly with someone else behind the trigger, someone you know car really shoot.

Also, what did you mean by "cranked the action screws down"? How tight exactly?

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
July 17, 2009, 01:13 AM
Sorry, been away from this postfor a little bit.
Got everything sorted out now, this rifle shoots pretty decently. Last range trip I had the rifle down to an inch at 150 yards with the addition of a better scope. Still have to take pictures of the groupings because I accidentally left my target board at my buddies where I shoot. He lives about 30 miles out and I have no vehicle right now.

scythefwd
July 17, 2009, 01:19 AM
skinewmexico,
I don't know of any sniper that would use a rifle that would only shoot 6moa at 100y. That is a 6 inch group. Move out to a safe distance, say 500y, and you are now dealing with a 30 inch group. A sniper is most likely looking at a group of 5 -6 inches at 500y. They don't shoot to injure.

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
July 17, 2009, 02:18 AM
Here's a picture of the rifle with it's new scope!
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w25/Imatas121/p_00037-1.jpg

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
July 18, 2009, 06:50 AM
Here's a work in progress to what I want it to be.
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w25/Imatas121/p_00039.jpg
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w25/Imatas121/p_00040.jpg

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