ILDM Target interpretation


October 16, 2008, 01:26 PM
Can anyone with more experience help me interpret my ILDM target below? It was shot with my Bushmaster AR15, 20" fluted 1/9" chrome lined barrel, with 60gr Nosler Ballistic tips, Federal Match primers, all S&B Brass, and Reloader15 starting at 23.5 and maxing out at 25.5. It's not what I was expecting; I started out with running a bore snake partially soaked in Hoppes Bensh rest copper solvent through the barrel about seven times, then fired five shots at the minimum charge, waited, then fired each of the eleven shots about 30 seconds apart, target was at 100yds. Any ideas? Does it just mean that Reloader15 is not going to work, or is there something else at work?

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October 18, 2008, 07:52 AM
try 5 rounds with 24.0 then 24.5 and so on, if that does not help try changing your powder.

Al Thompson
October 18, 2008, 08:17 AM
One, what sort of sights are you using? Two, I'd use one target per reloading change - too hard to track other wise. Three, before I worried too much about powder, I'd play with a different bullet or if you want to stick with that bullet, adjust your seating depth.

Al Thompson
October 18, 2008, 08:19 AM
Oh, what "is" the group size? Hard to tell from the picture.

October 18, 2008, 02:24 PM
I'm using a scope. In reading about the ILDM (Ladder Method), what I should have gotten was a bit of a rising line, with one or more groups of sequential shots. If I had gotten that, with say, shots 3, 4 and 5 close together, I'd probably want to load a few of #4 and see how they grouped. Problem is I have tried pretty much what you sugested, PK, but nothing has yeilded "tack driving" results. Or am I missing something?
October 18, 2008, 03:02 PM
A while back i had a remington 700 which was getting a bit tatty stock wise so i changed it for a choate stock.the load i used before changing was 35.0 of reloader 15 and sako cases and was right on the money, when i tried it with the choate on it fired rounds all over the place! it did not make much difference what weight of powder i used either.A buddy gave me some varget which i loaded to 35.0 which solved the problem:) Really all you can do is experement with different load and powder, eventually you will get the perfect recipe;). Keep trying buddy you will get there.

Al Thompson
October 19, 2008, 01:28 PM
Powder is down the list on shooting accuracy. First, can the rifle and scope combination shoot tight groups? I'd try some commercial ammo (Federal Match) and see. Second, if not, get a scope that can indeed group small and mount it to see if the rifle is off. After that, come back and let us know how your doing. :)

October 21, 2008, 09:41 PM
Ok, new target I shot tonight. Two things are changed: The bullets weren't seated as deep (first target they where 2.243", this one they where 2.274" - barely magazine length; the edge of the case was right at the band on the bullets). Second was the scope. I put the original scope back on (and had to get it back near zero with the fouling shots). First target, max spread was 2.552" center to center. Second max was 1.2".

The loads where as follows (Same loads as first target):
Reloader 15, S&B Brass, Federal Small Rifle Match primers
Fouling and #1 - 23.5gr
2 - 23.7
3 - 23.9
4 - 24.1
5 - 24.3
6 - 24.5
7 - 24.7
8 - 24.9
9 - 25.1
10 - 25.3
11 - 25.5

Since 9 and 10 where the closest sequential shots, I'm going to try loading a few at 25.2gr. Sound reasonable?

October 21, 2008, 10:52 PM
Honestly I have always loaded up 5 rounds at a given powder weight and launched them and used the best one. How far were you shooting this? When you look at the second target you posted (first target in the last post) you have VERY little horizontal spread through out the range. I would load up at least 3 rounds in about all of those powder weights setup to the same OAL using the same brass and primers and see what you get.

October 21, 2008, 11:07 PM
All targets where shot at 100yds (I would've shot at 200 if I could find a 200yd range). While the first target has five rounds all in a straight line about 1/4" apart, the sequential rounds are about .6" apart, wheras 9 and 10 are .36" apart. I'm still learning how to develop loads (making them is easy, it's finding the right one for the gun that's hard), but I've been trying the "load some at a weight and try" method for months with my AR and my 30-06 (although that's another issue), and I have gotten nowhere, which is why after reading about the "Ladder Method", I'm giving that a try.

October 21, 2008, 11:24 PM
Still blame the vertical on the change in powder. If you were seeing bad groups with these loads you wouldn't have a straight line, you would have a lot more horizontal spread. How can you expect rounds with different loads to group well vertically? You obviously found a range that has VERY little horizontal stringing. I would see what all those powder ranges shot like in a 3 or 5 round groups. You would expect to see at least the horizontal stringing to be very small in them and should find at least one that was good on the vertical.

October 22, 2008, 10:21 AM
Yes, the vertical change is due to the powder charge change; That's part of the idea. Here's ( some reading for ya. :)

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