[Gray Peterson]

Before casting a key Senate vote Thursday to allow most Missourians to carry concealed weapons, Gibbons said he'd gotten commitments from the measure's backers that "there would be no effort to weaken the bill for three years."

Story on Senator Gibbon's Re-Election Bid for next year... (http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/News/St.+Louis+City+/+County/340CA74F0882FBDF86256DA0007AD91B?OpenDocument)

I'm pretty sorely disappointed. I can understand two years, since 1 Term Bob is still going to be governor in 15 months, but 3 YEARS?

I don't like making deals like this. This backs us into a corner, and whereas the CCE law backers would have their hands tied, you can bet the anti-gunners will continually try to pass bills to make it even more restrictive, and Gibbon's can't control Jacobs from introducing bills to repeal concealed carry.

[Standing Wolf]

On the proverbial "bright side," not a single state has ever repealed a shall issue law. I know a number of states have loosened restrictions over time; I'm unaware of any that have made them more stringent.

I predict Missouri's leftist extremists, like those in other states, will huff and puff and snivel and whine, and perhaps even throw in some assault lawyering, but will gradually be silenced by the simple facts: their fears are unfounded, and their dire predictions are hogwash.

Minnesota's leftist extremists did the loudest snivelling and whining after the fact.

[goalie]

Our extremists are STILL whining loudly. They went so far as to refuse to report on TV a carjacking that was stopped by a permit holder and the would-be carjacker held by the permit holder until the police arrived. Oh well, it is getting fun to ask them when the carnage is going to start. I've been waiting for months now. :rolleyes:

[Bruce H]

I'll bet none of this is in writing with signatures of all involved. Looks like more posturing. I would be a hell of a lot more concerned with what was promised Senator Gibbons. Let's watch and see what new project suddenly appears in his district.

[Gray Peterson]

Gibbons is a bit worried, rightfully so, that his yes vote may cause him to be ousted in the next election. His district voted 70 percent AGAINST prop B.

I think promises were made. But if the beat out the Democratic challenger to his seat in 2004 (you can bet the 'rats will want revenge), I think it may be possible to get something on the deal in 2005.

[El Tejon]

Standing, well, not exactly, but Indiana added "no guns in governmental reeducation camps" to its carry statute decades after it was passed.

[Guntalk]

If the deal was to not "weaken" the law, that's fine.

Missouri should start immediately to STRENGTHEN the law by giving citizens more power.

Reduce the number and type of places where citizens can not carry.

Expand the age of those who can provide for their own safety.

Reduce the costs to make safety more accessible to the publc.

And that's just to get things started.

[John Ross]

Bruce: "I'll bet none of this is in writing with signatures of all involved. Looks like more posturing. I would be a hell of a lot more concerned with what was promised Senator Gibbons. Let's watch and see what new project suddenly appears in his district."

Hunh? The Governor is AGAINST Gibbons. He didn't promise him anything. Gibbons is why his veto got overridden.

Lonnie: "Gibbons is a bit worried, rightfully so, that his yes vote may cause him to be ousted in the next election. His district voted 70 percent AGAINST prop B."

No he isn't. Gibbons is in a district that would NEVER elect a Democrat.

Tom: "Reduce the number and type of places where citizens can not carry."

If the only penalty is you have to leave IF they notice (which they shouldn't if you're doing it right) then this is a non-issue.

"Expand the age of those who can provide for their own safety."

Get a Maine out-of-state permit at age 18. NBD.

"Reduce the costs to make safety more accessible to the publc."

Unlikely. They're going to get used to the new dough real quick.

JR

[Gray Peterson]

If the deal was to not "weaken" the law, that's fine.

I think what was meant was "weaken" in terms of removing restrictions and lowering the age limits. Our strengthening is an anti-gunner's weakening.

John Ross is correct on a few points but some more points from me:

"Expand the age of those who can provide for their own safety."

Get a Maine out-of-state permit at age 18. NBD.

One problem: Missouri state law is quite clear: You cannot buy a handgun or have a handgun transferred to you by state law unless you possess a permit to acquire for a period of thirty days.

One of those provisions is that you have to be at least 21 years of age. There is NO exception to this provision. Not even a parent can gift a "concealable firearm" to their adult children until they are 21.

The only way around this is if you owned the firearm outside of Missouri, at 18, and then moved into Missouri. Then and only then can you get a Maine permit and be able to carry a handgun under the new carry law in Missouri, because if you get pulled over, and you present your Maine permit, and your Missouri driver license, you'll get hammered with questions about where you got the handgun. They would look at your license, see your age, and use that as prima facie evidence that you violated the concealable firearm transfer law.

Since this is the case, if you're under 21, and don't have a handgun, you're pretty much screwed until you're 21. At which case, you might as well get a Florida permit, if they don't change the law to disallow residents of Missouri to possess non-resident permits to have an exception to the law first.

Don't blame me, I didn't write the "permit to acquire" thing. I think it's stupid.

[John Ross]

Lonnie: "One problem: Missouri state law is quite clear: You cannot buy a handgun or have a handgun transferred to you by state law unless you possess a permit to acquire for a period of thirty days. One of those provisions is that you have to be at least 21 years of age. There is NO exception to this provision. Not even a parent can gift a "concealable firearm" to their adult children until they are 21. The only way around this is if you owned the firearm outside of Missouri, at 18, and then moved into Missouri. "

Not quite. The moving into Missouri example is correct. There is another: Parent gifted handgun(s) to minor child prior to this provision being written into law (4 years ago IIRC). Only recently was gifting handguns to minor children made illegal. Existing cases were grandfathered. All serious gun people give their kids appropriate guns as soon as possible. I did.

"Don't blame me, I didn't write the "permit to acquire" thing. I think it's stupid."

Me too. But what we now have with CCW is 1000 times better than what we had before. The age thing is minor. People grow out of it all too quickly... :-).

JR

[Guntalk]

To John Ross:

I just left a phone message for you, but I'll throw a not on here in case you don't get it.

How about being on the Gun Talk radio show today to talk about the Missouri Senate action passing the carry law?

1:30 Central time would work great. The call-in number is 1-866-825-5486.

Thanks.

Oh, others can listen on the net, if you don't get the show locally.

www.kbmp.com
http://www.kxam.com/

More details at www.guntalk.com

[Bruce H]

JohnI wasn't talking about the governor. What did the other senators offer for his vote?

[Guntalk]

Just got a call from John. He'll call in at 1:30 Central time today to be on the radio. Should be fun.

Other guests: A woman candidate for Attorney General in Louisiana, President of Henry Repeating Arms. a woman teacher in Utah who was on CBS TV this week, saying she might carry in the classroom.

Gotta go get ready to go on the air. Join us. It's fun.

[John Ross]

"John I wasn't talking about the governor. What did the other senators offer for his vote?"

Nothing. Dolan was always strongly with us. Grassroots lit up the phones to Washington and Fairfax as well as Jeff City about needing to have Dolan take off from Cuba to vote. Eventually the White House got involved.

There is AMPLE precedent--FDR called back Lyndon Johnson from Europe for a vote during WWII. It's the duty of a legislator to be there to vote much more than it is for him to be sitting in some naval base working as a PR officer. Had the other side needed him, they would have moved heaven and earth to get him back.

BTW now Dolan has positive statewide name recognition. That's good for him if he ever wants to be Governor...

JR

[atek3]

hey is their anyway I can listen to the radio show online?

atek3

[Baba Louie]

atek3

www.guntalk.com

Go to the archives and listen up.

If you can find a station that streams over the net and carries Tom's show, you can listen live.

Adios

[Frohickey]

Actually, the best type of 'strengthening' of the law should be...

Places that ban the carrying of concealed weapons are legally and financially responsible for any violent crimes that take place.

Whatever happened to this proposed bill in Arizona?