How far have we come?


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younganddumb
October 19, 2008, 03:48 PM
I was up in PA whis weekend camping and went through Gettysburg. My and my mom stopped to see a "reanactment" which was really just an explanation of the weapons they used and had during the Civil War. And as I was ooking through their "camp" i found out a few intresting things:

1)not very important but; these guys are very dedicated and came all the way from Ohio to PA

2)they had lever actions back then made by winchester under the name of Henry that shot 16 rounds

3) the most amazing one they had sharpshooters(which I knew of but not a lot of) that could hit a target out to 1300 yards the same as what are USMC snipers are hitting with the .308. They had 8 power scopes topped on them and could but 5 shots in the O on a stop sign at 200 yards. These guns weighed from 16 to 25 pounds and had very little reciol to them. The scopes used spider web's as crosshairs on the scope and darkened it with a candle.

So really have we really improved?

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EShell
October 19, 2008, 08:03 PM
1)not very important but; these guys are very dedicated and came all the way from Ohio to PAG-burg is a "Union" display, so many deeds of the Confederate Army are largely ignored. Some came even further, up from the south. Quite a feat when one considers many/most walked.2)they had lever actions back then made by winchester under the name of Henry that shot 16 roundsThe Henry rifle shot .44 rimfire - lot of shots, but less power than many pistol rounds of modern day. The Henry rifle was made by a predecessor to Winchester, not Winchester proper, which was later formed in 1866.3) the most amazing one they had sharpshooters(which I knew of but not a lot of) that could hit a target out to 1300 yards the same as what are USMC snipers are hitting with the .308. They had 8 power scopes topped on them and could but 5 shots in the O on a stop sign at 200 yards. These guns weighed from 16 to 25 pounds and had very little reciol to them. The scopes used spider web's as crosshairs on the scope and darkened it with a candle.While some of these stories are fact based, there is some "poetic license" assumed in the name of entertainment value and while long range hits were occasionally possible, they were not repeatable and/or reliable in the same sense that they are today. The capacity for a first round hit has increased exponentially and with very efficient rounds like the .338 Lapua Mag, and the CheyTacs, it's an entirely different ball game. Even today, not many shots are taken at 1,300 with a .308, and the average engagement range is considerably shorter. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sniper_rifleSo really have we really improved?
Yes, there have been many improvements in the ensuing time and the current 1k benchrest record is around 1-1/2 inches. Given good environmental conditions (no wind or mirage) good tactical rifles can be expected to deliver 3/8 MOA with regularity. 3/8 MOA ~ 3/4" at 200 yards . . . the size of a quarter. Many factory rifles, like Remington's 5R or PSS, or the heavy barreled Savages, can be expected to deliver 3/4 MOA or better right out of the box, with factory match ammo. 3/4 MOA ~ 1-1/2" at 200 yards.

Zach, why don't you ride down to Quantico with my daughter and I next Sunday (10-26-08) and watch some long range precision shooting in person? We're shooting the modified F-class match on Range 4 and will be shooting a 15 shot group at 800, another 15 shot group at 900 and a 20 shot group at 1,000. I'm shooting my GAP 6.5-284 and she's running my GAP .260. If you dad OKs it, you can ride down and back with us. You can hang out with us and I'll introduce you to some of the guys. If your dad wants to go too, he is very welcome and you guys can follow us down, or I'll help him with directions and more info. It's about 1:15 down, and about 2 hours back, due to I-95 traffic being worse in the afternoon. Shooter sign-in is at 0830 and the match starts around 0900+/-.
http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=10424

Shawnee
October 19, 2008, 09:10 PM
"G-burg is a "Union" display, so many deeds of the Confederate Army are largely ignored. "


Don't know that is so accurate. "Confederate" memorabilia is the biggest seller in the many shops by far. You can't find a picture of U.S. Grant in some of the shops but portraits of Marse Robert are fast movers in all the shops.

I had the opportunity to ride over the battlefields there on horseback and it is an incredible experience. Emerging from the sparse cover of Seminary Ridge is a spine-tingler. Saddlebound beneath Little Round Top, knowing there were Federal sharpshooters there and it would take a good gallop to get out of range is an eerie experience and riding between Devil's Den and The Slaughter Pen is downright creepy.

The two impressions most with me from riding Gettysburg are a.) the sheer Desperation of the struggle, and b.) the men who fought there had 'nads the size of watermelons - regardless of their weapons.

:cool:

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