[Kind of Blued]

I'm new to horse-riding but have a dream of someday being able to venture out on horseback on my own property to hunt small to medium-sized game.

Does anybody do this? What gun(s) do you take? How do you carry them? How does the horse take to gunfire? How do you transport meat back?

I rode a horse named "Trigger" through the New Mexico desert yesterday with a gun on me and my imagination might have gotten a little out of control, but combining four of my six favorite things would be pretty awesome. :)

Thanks.

[Duke Junior]

Riding Trigger through the NM desert would have set me aflame to thinking of Roy,Dale and and the Great Sons of the Pioneers music group led by the great songwriter Bob Noble from the '30's and '40's.
I know no one who hunts on horseback but I envy your experience of yesterday.
Someone with expertise will be along shortly to answer the question.

[Ridgerunner665]

I prefer mules (they do not spook as easy)...but yes, I hunt with Henry...deer don't spook no matter how much noise he makes, often I he can walk to within a few feet before they decide to get out of his way.

He does not even break a sweat carrying 150 lbs of deer up the steep hills around here, and he can go places a 4 wheeler never dreamed of...crosses rivers, jumps 5 foot fences with ease, and he does not even flinch at gunfire, (<<<that took some time), he's not afraid of bears, mountain lions, and HATES canines of any species...he will kill them himself if they get within reach (about 10 feet), and he puts the energizer bunny to shame...he just keeps going and going...long after the best horse has laid down...mules are TOUGH, in both body and mind.

A few pics...

My wife, father in law (behind camera) and me at Big South Fork (not hunting there, just riding)
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc137/Ridgerunner665/Copy20of20111_1118.jpg

Water break at East Fork in Jamestown, TN
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc137/Ridgerunner665/Copyof110_1067.jpg

Gotta include this one...its the first time I climbed on him when he was a feisty 2 year old, he never bucked any (I have trained horses and mules most of my life)
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc137/Ridgerunner665/Copyofaer.jpg

And the latest pic I have (which is about 2 years old)...Henry at home. (and a little fat...too much eating an not enough riding at that time, a mans gotta work though)
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc137/Ridgerunner665/118_1835.jpg

Yes...I'm proud of my mule. He is now 7 years old and like a fine wine...he only gets better with age.

[Ridgerunner665]

Now for the guns...

I ALWAYS have my 1911 on me...its in every one of those pics.

For hunting I like lever rifles in a scabbard, I have them in a few flavors (44 mag, 30-30, 35 Rem., and 45-70).

Getting them used to gun fire...
Start with a pellet rifle and work your way up...it takes time and don't overdo it...they have EXCELLENT hearing, you don't want to ruin it. Do not fire right by their head like you see in the movies or you will "undo" all that training in a millisecond...and ruin their hearing at the same time.

[Kind of Blued]

I didn't even know that we had a hunting forum, so thanks to the mod that moved this. :)

Also, thanks for the great information Ridgerunner. I really wish I had grown up around animals other than "the dog", but I figure it's never to late to start. You seem like you've got a great one in Henry.

Thanks again.

[35 Whelen]

When people ask my Dad: "Say...can you shoot off of that mule?" He always answers: "Yep. But I wouldn't shoot on her if I were you." :D
Seriously, have you ever had any type firearm go off behind your head? I have, more than once, and it's awful. Even if one of our mules or horses would stand for it, (And I think they'll be renting snow skis in hell first) I wouldn't do it. And I can't think of a much more unstable platform than sitting in a saddle. IMHO, best leave shooting from the saddle to the movie stars! Besides, except for an occassional mule deer, I've never seen game that will let you ride within rifle range to get a shot. We typically tie the mules and walk 1/4-1/2 mile from them to hunt. Elk, in my experience, are extremely intolerant of the presence of humans, and since horses/mules are always found with humans....
My Dad and I hunt elk in New Mexico every year and we ride quite a bit. Typically, 8-10 miles a day. We have horses and mules, but only ride the horses when the mules need a break as the horses are stupid when compared to the mules. Plus the mules are much tougher and have better stamina than the horses. There are a couple of places where we hunt that require climbing fairly steep trails that a a little tough even on the mules. (Altitude is from 10,000' to right at 11,000')
My experience with spooking is the opposite of Ridgerunners; the mules, especially Sugar, tend to be much, much more wary than the horses, hence they seem to spook more though it's not a big deal. It may be because we ride them mostly in somewhat unfamiliar territory where the sights and sounds are relatively foreign to them. I also attribute this to the fact that they have a tendency to be very self preservative. One thing I will agree on though, unless they're saddled and/or being ridden, they'll try to kill a dog on sight. This is especially true when they're at home and in the lot.

Here's a few pictures so you can see how we rig saddles, saddle bags, scabbards, pack saddles, etc.

Miss Lilly and Sugar. Two of the sweetest girls a man could ever want. Never hurt you or get you in a mess. Sugar, the big red girl on the right belongs to Dad. At a hair over 16 hands, she's a little tall for a 74 year old man, but he manages.
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/Hunting/DSCN0958.jpg

Miss Lilly:
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/Hunting/DSCN0957.jpg
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/Hunting/DSCN0981.jpg
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/Hunting/DSCN0954.jpg

Sugar:
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/Hunting/Sugar.jpg
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/Hunting/P1010113-1.jpg



Here you can see an ax on Lilly and a cross-cut saw on Sugar. The first trip in every year always reqiores removal of fallen trees from the trail.
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/Hunting/P1010114.jpg
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/Hunting/P1010117.jpg


A shot of my Dad's saddle he had built on a mule tree and how he rigged his scabbard.
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/Hunting/ElkHunt200423.jpg

Here are a couple of shots where you can see how we rig our scabbards:
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/Hunting/HuntingTrip2006011.jpg
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/Hunting/ElkHunt06-312.jpg

Pack saddles, etc:
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/Hunting/DSCN0977.jpg
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/Hunting/DSCN0979.jpg
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/Hunting/DSCN0980.jpg

Now the real work:

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/Hunting/PA060172.jpg
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/Hunting/PA060174-1.jpg
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/Hunting/PA060184.jpg
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/Hunting/PA060186.jpg
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/Hunting/PA060191.jpg
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/Hunting/PA060203.jpg
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/Hunting/PA060207-red.jpg
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/Hunting/ElkHunt200528.jpg
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/Hunting/HuntingTrip2005023.jpg
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/Hunting/HuntingTrip2005026bigger.jpg
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/Hunting/DSCN0108.jpg

Good riding stock makes a hunt so enjoyable. This year, I had a really hard time coming home. I just wanted to stay in the saddle and ride, ride, ride.
Regards,
35W

[Shawnee]

GREAT posts, 35 and Ridgerunner !!!


:cool:

[qwert65]

35 -thats some pretty country

To the OP- I've never hunted on horseback(though I want to as well)
I've been around horses all my life and I'm 2yrs off my dvm so I can't speak about hunting but I can speak about getting them used to gunfire

There are a couple ways to do it that I know of and I'm sure theres others.
1- you can start by shooting around them this takes a lot of time but works start with a 22 and work up. pay no attention to the horses but watch them if they spook wait then shoot again when calm it helps if you feed them while doing this.

I read about another way where they fed the horses in a arena while firing off blanks this was suppossed to be quick I read this in an article(I think B. skeleton) not sure though.

I work with racehorses so while gunfire isn't usually around(cept me killing groundhogs) they get used to lots of different sounds over time as long as you are patient. For example at Monmouth Park an amtrack train runs through the backstretch after a day or to MOST horses are ok with it.

I'd like to close by reminding you that all horses are indivuals, ie some may not like it and some may not care it depends on tempermant/hearing and most importantly handling

[Ridgerunner665]

A little clarification...

When I said mules don't spook as bad, what I meant was that when they do spook...they don't run blindly, they do not panic.

Mules may spook...and even run...but they will be watching where they are running.

When horses panic, they do not care where they are going...as long as they are going somewhere. (over cliffs, through fences, off a bridge, through quicksand...it makes no difference to a horse)

Mules are VERY aware of their surroundings...Henry once let me know about a mountain lion that I had no idea was within 100 feet, crouched on the roof of an old abandoned shed, ready to pounce...Henry didn't spook (but he WAS NOT going to take another step forward until I ran the cat off)...when those ears quit flopping and stand at attention, something is there.

And yes...

Horses and mules each have their very own personality...much like people. Henry is very proud, jealous, and can be quite aggressive with strangers.
But with me...he is just like a puppy. All he wants is his ears scratched and not to be left behind...Where I go (when we're out), Henry goes...it would take a pretty high fence or a VERY stout rope to stop him from following me.

[qwert65]

Ridgerunner, a ques. since you seem to be a mule guy. My experience with mules is limted to two. I found them to be very smart(agrravatingly so) whats the best confinment for them? are they easier to break than a horse?

[Art Eatman]

Way back when the mountains weren't so steep, I had a palomino gelding that was really laid back. Easy-going and for a horse, real smart. I got curious to see if he could deal with me shooting from the saddle. He'd already gotten into the deal of coming up behind me when I was shooting pistols at my range, although he didn't like being hit in the head by the empties from my 1911.

So, first with the .22 rifle, pointed to the rear. No problem. Then, .357 mag; no problem. When the old '06 spoke, though, he'd flinch.

He worked it out himself: If we saw a deer, he'd stop and then turn about 45 degrees, giving me a good angle. He'd lower his head and lay his ears back as if he could "stopper up". :) If I shot, he'd flinch but not buck at all. If I didn't shot and the deer ran on, he'd relax and then sorta look around as if to say, "Hey, what's up?"

Good old horse. Fun times.

[35 Whelen]

Ridgerunner, a ques. since you seem to be a mule guy. My experience with mules is limted to two. I found them to be very smart(agrravatingly so) whats the best confinment for them? are they easier to break than a horse?

If I may....
Mules and horses are all very individual. Ease of breaking either of them can revolve around many things including the personalities of their parents, how they were raised, who's breaking them. I don't believe one is any easier or more difficult to break than another. I all depends on the individual animal.
What do you mean by confinement? Dad keeps his mules in the same lot with his horses if that's what you're talking about. He'll often pasture the mules and horses together here on my place. Like an equine, they establish a pecking order, then everything's OK.
35W

[Ridgerunner665]

35 Whelen,
You took the words right out of my mouth on the breaking issue...

But I will add this, mules are usually not any tougher to train than horses...but it does take a bit longer to get to the finished product IMO. Also, there are a few tricks I use on mules only...I don't start them with a bit in their mouth, I have found that its MUCH easier to get them to work off nose pressure (hackamore)...then use a combo bit to start the transition to mouth pressure, then finally, when they give to VERY LIGHT pressure with the combo...they are ready for a standard short shank bit...that method has worked on dozens of mules...and they all ended up with what I like to call "power steering and power brakes".

Most importantly...it does not make their mouth as tough as shoe leather (hard mouthed)

Confinement... Mules will stay close to home if they are well fed and watered. As a matter of fact...some can be pretty darn hard to get out of the field when you want them out.

I use 5 strands of high tensile because of the horses...Henry would stay in with a grass string for a fence...once in a great while he does jump the gate and help "mow" the yard (fertilizes it too)...that's usually in the spring when the grass is too green and lush for him to resist...but he never goes far and I live out in the sticks, so its no big deal for me...he jumps right back in at feeding time.

As a baseline fence though, when the mule HAD to stay in...I'd recommend 5 strands of electrified high tensile wire with the top strand at 5 1/2 feet.

[Byron Quick]

It's been over thirty years since I forked either. In my experience mules didn't spook easier and it wasn't because their interest in self preservation was less, often it was because it was more.

I've seen horses get into all kinds of trouble running from a blown leaf. I've never seen a mule do that kind of thing.

No experience shooting from either. As far as game goes though, I've had a horse step on rabbits. I've never ridden a horse into a covey of quail and I don't think I want to do so, either.

[Ridgerunner665]

Art,

That sounds a lot like Henry, when he's anticipating the shot he will lower his head and lay his ears back like that.

There is NOTHING in this world that compares to a good mule or horse (I've had good and bad in both)

[Ridgerunner665]

I want to add one more pic...mostly out of respect.

Here is the man that taught me everything I know about mules...and everything else too.

My Grandad with Kate and Tobe...
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc137/Ridgerunner665/Copyofk.jpg

That's Kate he sitting on...she's the only babysitter I ever had, I used to ride her while he was plowing the corn and tobacco...the stories I could tell...

That pic was taken by Jack Jeffers...he just happened to see Grandad plowing and wanted a picture for a book he was writing called "Appalachian Byways" ( http://www.jeffersfineart.com/j_books.php ), it was taken in 1974 (most people had tractors then).

[Ridgerunner665]

I owe the OP an apology...he asked about horses, not mules.

I didn't intend to hijack your thread...

I have 6 horses...well, actually I have 1 horse and 1 mule...my wife has 5 horses.

Hers are Tennessee Walking horses...my filly, the result of a VERY long breeding process, is a carefully bred mix of Appaloosa (small, fast, tough), Quarter Horse (fast, nimble, smart, very well built), Thoroughbred (fast, long winded, well built but longer legged), and a touch of genuine BLM adopted mustang (fastest, toughest, and quite possibly the meanest horse there is)

I wish I had a recent pic of Dixie...I will take one this weekend if I don't forget. here is the only one I have...she was about 3 days old in this one... (she black in this pic...she turned grey at about 6 months old)

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc137/Ridgerunner665/112_1212.jpg


She is my idea of the perfect horse except for her color, she is now 2 1/2 years old, 14.5 hands tall (she'll finish around 15.2...she's still young), weighs about 800 lbs right now, very muscular...best looking grey horse you ever laid eyes on (I wanted a bay), has been clocked at 53 mph (that'll blow your hat off), extremely agile, and not afraid of anything I've found yet...and spoiled PLUMB ROTTEN...her mom died giving birth to her, so she was raised on a bottle.

That was off topic too I guess, but she will be hunted with.

[Jst1mr]

You guys should be jailed for cruelty to animals........ME! Its now some 12 years since I moved back from Colorado, where someone was kind enough to take me on a few elk hunts in the West Elk wilderness on horseback (no experience with mules). Being a good-sized guy, seems you could always see the disappointment on the face of the one assigned to drag you through the mountains (the horse, I mean!). The pack ins, the scenery, the tents, the elk hunting, the fireside....thought I was over all that......... now your pictures have me lookin for a hanky....thanks a lot!

[Ridgerunner665]

Don't feel bad...35 Whelens pics made me look for a hanky too.

He has MUCH more wide open space to ride and hunt in than I do...a lot has changed here in the past 20 years.

[Kind of Blued]

Wow. Absolutely wonderful contributions by all, and especially Ridgerunner and 35 Whelen. Great photos and insight.

I'm actually thankful that you (Ridgerunner) brought up mules, so no worries. It wasn't until tonight that I remembered that my uncle uses two now (used to be one mule and one hinny) when he bow hunts in Oregon. He's a tough fella.

Anyway, thanks again. I flew back from Albuquerque to Denver Sunday afternoon and had my head on the window the whole time.

There sure is a lot of land between here and there that nobody seems to be using. :) Someday...

[qwert65]

Ridge and 35. These mules were at a freinds place in NJ they would just jump a 6' fence i was wondering if that was common(since my experience is limited with mules) They didn't cause trouble but animals in your yard(in freehold/jackson NJ ) is a 3000 dollar ticket so he elected to get rid of them.

[Harve Curry]

Those are some great photos.
Ridgerunner is right on the money about the bitting of a horse or mule. Hackamore or Bosal training is age old way to get a soft mouth reining horse. It takes along time, months to years. Then transition to a bit if you want to keep going with the finest reining.
I just got back from hunting horse back for elk. (no I didn't get one). I like to string up a high picket line from tree to tree, about 8' off the ground and tight. On it is loops of heavy bailing twine put over the rope and pulled thu themselves. This makes a good tie for the lead rope to tie to and doesn't slip along the rope. In a emergency you can cut the twine. I've gotten pretty qiuk at putting them up, quiker then typing this. Some folks just tie to a tree but I have'nt had much luck that way.
Personally I find it easier and see more game from afoot. I use the horses to cover ground, and pack. Then picket and hunt, or move in afoot on spotted game.
Generally it's best to step down and take your shot wth your horse behind you. High power rifles are noisey, even if your expecting it. Don't take a wrap of the lead rope around your arm or hand, at the last you can get jerked pretty good. If you have a partner let them hold the horses. I've sat on the rope and then be ready to go with it as the horse backs away from the shot. Some horses will put up with more then others, some don't seem to mind it.
In back country I keep a halter on under the bridle just because they are so handy to have the lead rope and not have to lead with the bridle reins. Don't tie your horse or mule by the reins. If he has a bit in his mouth it can hurt his mouth/teeth and if he/she ever pulls back you won't have a bridle. String halters with the halter shank built in are a strong, compact way to go.
Hope this helps.

[35 Whelen]

Personally I find it easier and see more game from afoot. I use the horses to cover ground, and pack. Then picket and hunt, or move in afoot on spotted game.

I'm with you, Harve. I like to tie the animals and then walk a minimum 1/4 mile from them.

In back country I keep a halter on under the bridle just because they are so handy to have the lead rope and not have to lead with the bridle reins.

Again, I heartily agree. Dad rides with split reins and ties the ends together and lets them lay on the animals neck while it's tied. I prefer a roping rein especially when I'm leading a pack horse. When I tie the animal up, I just unsnap the reins from the bit, or remove the bit altogether if they're to be tied for a good while. Here:
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/Hunting/DSCN0957.jpg

you can see how we keep the halter lead ropes out of the way, plus if you have to bail off in a hurry, it's within easy reach.

35W

[TCB in TN]

Have broke and ridden a lot of horses (mostly TWH and Racking horses). Broke and rode a few mules and can echo RR comments about it taking longer. We have also always broke our stock w/o bits to protect the mouth and keep them responsive (usually use a snug halter).

I have hunted off a few horses, but they were not to shoot off of. (Coulda done it once) They get used to you shootin off the ground a LOT faster than outta the saddle. I also hate to shoot so close to their ears.

BTW RR I used to do a lot of riding up at Big South Fork (I love the Hostel and the Overlook), live about 30 minutes south of there.

[Ridgerunner665]

For several years, my wife, her Dad and stepmom, and me have went down to East Fork, Big South Fork or Zenith along about the end of October...but for the past 2 years I have been unable to go because of work, and I won't be able to go this time either...they (her Dad and stepmom) are leaving next weekend I think...going to Zenith.

[Ridgerunner665]

About the sneaking up on the deer while in the saddle...

Deer here are not used to being hunted from horses (or mules)...they don't pay the least bit of attention to them.

[Mark Whiteman]

As a city guy I have to tell you what you've got with that fine country and animals is the closest thing to heaven. The most riding I did was at Scout summer camp, most of the day every day for a week. Got the merit badge. 2 years in a row (they had an extra slot)! And the bruises! Never hunted with horses or mules but anything beats humping an animal out on foot in the mountains. They're steep enough in the PNW to make you think twice. I am envious, guys. Can't help it. :D

Deer and Elk are funny critters. A buddy was bent at the waist nosing thru dense Reprod and came nose to nose with a bull and 2 cows grazing on new growth. Didn't mind him a bit until he stood up straight. Poof!

[TCB in TN]

For several years, my wife, her Dad and stepmom, and me have went down to East Fork, Big South Fork or Zenith along about the end of October...but for the past 2 years I have been unable to go because of work, and I won't be able to go this time either...they (her Dad and stepmom) are leaving next weekend I think...going to Zenith.

In the same boat myself. Began teaching a couple of years ago and haven't had time to get there since. I have took my horses to the little fall show at East Fork a couple times, but overall don't have much time to ride. It is pretty county and I sure miss it.

[dogrunner]

Used to be a common thing here in Florida fifty years ago or so but as hunting acreage has gotten smaller it's become increasingly uncommon, tho still, on occasion you'll find someone doing it. One group I'm familiar with has at least one rider to cut off dog driven deer in the Ocala Forest, and mostly I've seen him armed with an ancient A/5......but as I said, with the growth here it is a dying practice, as is the dog hunting.

Of great advantage in palmetto flatwoods where one can 'bust' thru palmetto clumps or lead dogs into really thick areas.

Had a friend who used to do it and he's killed deer with a pistol at full gallop when they spooked across a pasture. One REAL plus is that you avoid snakes tho, and that's a super benefit.....you can spend time looking for game rather than trying to avoid gettin' bit.

[Harve Curry]

Ridgerunner665, " About the sneaking up on the deer while in the saddle...

Deer here are not used to being hunted from horses (or mules)...they don't pay the least bit of attention to them."
__________________

I wish it were that way in the southwest, only a couple of times has it happened to me. Usually game is moving far ahead of my horses noisey tracks. When I do ride up on deer, elk, coyotes it's not hunting season and the wind or something was in my favor.
I was watching my gelding yesterday morning as I watered the horses in a mountain tank (pond). There was 5 deer watering on the far end with a nice buck among them. I could barely see them myself in the dim light but Oscar stared straight at them while another mare just drank. The deer moved off quickly as they'd seen us first even though I stayed between the horses.Then Oscar drank. He has pretty good eyes.
If you read their actions it can help let you know there's game around, or had just been there. A couple of us rode up on water, the mules and horses wouldn't drink and it was a 100 degree day. The mules were skitish as all get out, lots of cactus all around and they would not stand still. We were headed for a real mess so we just started riding out and ran into a mother bear and two cubs, the cause for the disruption. Lucky for us the bears ran off and we just kept the animals at a brisk walk in the opposite direction.
Sadly motorized 4wheelers have pretty much replaced horse and mule. The forest service even used to use mules and pack strings, those Rangers were pretty savy to horse and mule mountain riding or they would not have lasted a week. But now hardly any of them would be adept at it. Hooking up a 4 wheeler trailer to a PU is about it.

[Decker]

No better way to hunt the back country than with good stock. But leave the shooting off the critters for hollywood. As mentioned eearlier, that muzzle blast is rough on a critter, i wouldn't intentionally muzzle blast my hunting partner, be it 2 legged or 4 legged.

If you have never broke a horse or mule before, and don't already have a broke one to ride with, I would really recomend buying something that already has a good start on it. I start all of mine by packing them for a year or two behind the broke horses, doesn't hurt my creeky old bones near so bad when a colt roles over on my sleeping bag instead of me and my rifle.

As far as packing, there are some good reads out there, but going with someone who already knows how and learning hands on is pretty hard to beat IMO.

heres a link to a pic from elk season last year or year before.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y100/rubymuledeer/100_0897.jpg