Made me think. hmmmmm


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Voodoochile
October 20, 2008, 12:31 PM
Looking at the thread titled about smokless....and c@b's (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=388144) & not only seeing first hand what could happen to one of these fine pistols & also seeing the picture of the blown cylinder made me think about my 1 year old Pietta '58 clone with it's 5.5" barrel.

I just wonder if my normal load of 30gr. FFFG Goex toped with a 220gr. .456 Conical will cause any of my 3 cylinders to eventually let go in my Pietta '58 with it's 5.5" barrel.
I've already put around 100 rounds through it between the 3 cylinders, was thinking of keeping 1 cylinder loaded with the conicals & at range time shoot that load like I do my .45ACP with my carry JHP loads & continue with .457 142gr. ball & 30gr. FFFG Goex.

Some may remember that due to some inaccuracy issues with this piece I've reamed the chambers from .4460 to .4510 to be .0015 larger than it's grove diameter & after that I've shot 18 shots out of one of my cylinders with Ball & 40gr. load of FFFG "very violent in the recoil & not as accurate" & when I started using the Lee .456 220gr. I played with up to 36gr. Load "didn't like the results of grouping or recoil" & have seteled on the 30gr. load for good accuracy at 20 yards & the added punch of the heavier bullet for field duty & since it seems to like the same 30gr. load with ball maybe even a 25gr. load.

So far this revolver has had approximatly 500 shots through the 3 different cylinders with charges ranging 25-40gr. FFFG with .457 ball & 30-36gr. FFFG with the conicals.

I'm religious in keeping any of my firearms clean & lubed.

What is every one's opinion?
do any of you think it'll last me years or will it have a destructive end in the near future.

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arcticap
October 20, 2008, 01:25 PM
You shouldn't worry about it.
The fact that you're shooting with powder charges that obtain the best accuracy is an indication that your cylinder pressure is not rising into a higher range than necessary for that specific bullet to shoot well.
If your groups were shooting all over the place with the heavier charge, then maybe that would be a sign that you were pushing the bullets too hard.
So the loads that are the best for accurate shooting results are probably the safer loads to shoot from your gun for the purpose of promoting cylinder longevity. :)


A cap&ball revolver thus reamed in the chambers to be equal to the barrels grooves or .001-.003 larger makes the danged things shoot as good or better than any cartridge gun I've ever fired. The pressure does rise fir sure. I can tell by the crack when the gun is fired. Never had any problem though even with heavy loads. I believe the chambers can be reamed even bigger than .003 over compared to the barrels grooves. Like .005-.006. You know when using just round balls.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=244774&highlight=reaming

Voodoochile
October 21, 2008, 06:03 PM
Thanx Arcticap, I'm in hopes that this little Remington copy will last me a many years, I just now need to reblue the frame fully since the work is done & the enjoyment can continue

the-ghost
October 21, 2008, 11:44 PM
i have the same pistol 58 pietta with a 5.5 inch barrel. i couldn't get her to group for squat. i've never had that problem before with any pistol. i got pissed off and just filled the chambers to the rim with pyrodex p and rammed in a 454 ball. thats about 48 grains of pyrodex, and im sure i could make it an even 50 grains. :evil:.
stout recoil but she groups good now. been shooting her that way for over a year with 0 issues. shes still tight, no barrel creep what so ever. i got around 400 shots through her and haven't replaced anything, not that it matters to me, i bought the gun to shoot it.

i think i'm gonna follow your lead and buy another cylinder and ream it. experimenting is half the fun of the black arts anyway.

DixieTexian
October 22, 2008, 02:35 AM
Shoot, fill it to the brim, compress the powder, and then fill it some more. Pocket knives were made for a reason...


...none of this advice should be taken seriously, but Sangria is amazing.

BHP FAN
October 22, 2008, 03:37 AM
Triple 7 is around 15-20 % hotter.It shoots a LOT flatter then Pyrodex sub ,or Goex real powder.I still like the real stuff the best.

Voodoochile
October 22, 2008, 06:37 AM
i have the same pistol 58 pietta with a 5.5 inch barrel. i couldn't get her to group for squat. i've never had that problem before with any pistol. i got pissed off and just filled the chambers to the rim with pyrodex p and rammed in a 454 ball. thats about 48 grains of pyrodex, and im sure i could make it an even 50 grains. .
stout recoil but she groups good now. been shooting her that way for over a year with 0 issues. shes still tight, no barrel creep what so ever. i got around 400 shots through her and haven't replaced anything, not that it matters to me, i bought the gun to shoot it.

i think i'm gonna follow your lead and buy another cylinder and ream it. experimenting is half the fun of the black arts anyway.

Reaming the chambers may help you out being that your piece may have the same issues as mine had before I reamed mine, in the end I've Smoothed & Tuned the action, Reamed 18 chambers to .4510, recrowned the barrel "didn't like the non-existent crown that was there," opened the capping area of the cylinders to accept a Snail style capper, & reworked the loading area of the frame to accept the .456 220gr. Lee Conicals & pretty soon I'll have a set of Rose Wood grip panels to finish to the piece & like I said she shoots prety good with 30gr. of FFFG "not a big fan of 777 although I do use it in my CVA Bobcat .50 till I'm out."

Now my 30gr. of FFFG Goex is measured from a adjustable "10-120gr." rifle measure & verrified with a grain scale where 30gr. from the measure actually weighs 29gr. & ofcorse Pyrodex weighs less than that but used in the same maner, I'm hoping that you are using a similar pistol measure like I have that degrades it's weight as it increases in volume "10gr = 8gr weight but at 30gr = 26gr in weight & at 40gr = 34gr weight" because if you were using my rifle measure that'd be a lot of powder in those chambers & I'll pray for you each day. :D

the-ghost
October 22, 2008, 04:19 PM
lol thanks for the prayers! i use a pistol measure with most of my guns. all kidding aside i know what i'm doing. i'm also well aware of the ramifications. i come from a faimly of gunsmiths, dad, grandpa, and great-grandpa. because it works for me doesn't mean anyone else should do what i do.

in archery, which is my first passion, you setup your bow and you take measurements of tiller, axle to axle, brace etc. so when the string creeps etc you can get it back into tune. i do the same with black powder pistols. i have yet to see this pistol move, or stretch. all in all shes a tough hunk of steel which is really all i was trying to get across in my above post.

thanks for the info on the custom work you did. sounds like something i need to look into. heck then maybe i could get 60 grains into the chamber.:what: hah just kidding, sorta maybe.:D

Voodoochile
October 22, 2008, 09:24 PM
He he I'm also an archer & keep an eye on my cams by keeping a marking on each in 2 different spots, same basic principal just an easy quick reference when out in the field.

As far as being tough so far my little Pietta '58 has proven to be just that & has been a constant companion when checking traps & sign on the club "bit more fun to shoot than my M1911A1 with almost as much punch."

BTW I just checked one of my pistol measures & at 50gr. setting it throws a 43gr. weight of FFFG Goex which is still a pretty stought load especially with Pyrodex P "I bet the recoil is quite substantial."

Well my friend, keep shooting but be safe. :D

madcratebuilder
October 22, 2008, 11:38 PM
How much powder can you get in your 58 and still seat a Conical bullet? 35 gr and a rb fills mine up, i can get 58 gr in my Walker.

DixieTexian
October 23, 2008, 03:42 AM
I think I can get about 35 in my remmie, too. I know the factory measure thingy that screws on to my flask that came with it is supposed to be 30 or so. I vaguely remember this being true when I tested it. Anyhow, I have plenty of room for a few extra grains when I fill a cylinder with it, and I have used an actual measure to put 35 in mine. I'm not the type who spends all his time working up the most accurate load and such, though. I just like to load my guns up and shoot around our land for fun. It is accurate enough with any load to suite my purposes for it.

Voodoochile
October 23, 2008, 05:51 AM
I can get 36gr. FFFG Goex volume "35 by actual weight" into the chambers & still be able to load a 220gr. .456 Lee Conical too but that is a very stought load & not as accurate, with the 142gr. .457 Ball I can get 40gr. FFFG Goex Volume into the chambers with just enough room for lube over the ball.

BHP FAN
October 23, 2008, 11:20 AM
Actually,the most accurate load I've found in BP .44's over the years is 28 grains of Goex 3f powder under a Wonder Wad and a .457 round ball. That said,I usually just use .454,for ease of loading.

the-ghost
October 23, 2008, 01:29 PM
the recoil with a full chamber of powder isn't as bad as you would think. still pretty tame, feels like my dads m1917 45acp. little hop but nothing to write home about. big gaint boom tho heheh.

BHP FAN
October 23, 2008, 03:15 PM
Not to get off topic,but I LOVE my 1917....hmmm.I've loaded Triple Seven in my Webley .38 S&W.Quit working as a double action after about three cylinders.Guess I'll empty the rest of my .38 S&W Triple Seven rounds through my 1888 Lemon Sqeezer.

Voodoochile
October 23, 2008, 10:08 PM
Well you're right about the recoil about between a .38 spec. S&W Model 10 & a .44 Spec. Hand Ejector both having 6" barrels, but it isn't a pipsqueak that makes you wonder if it went off like a .32.

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