270 reduced/youth load..?


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J23
October 20, 2008, 05:37 PM
My friend provided me his stepson's Rossi 270 Winchester. He wanted to know if I could produce a reduced load for him for deer this year... out to maybe 50-75 yards. I cant find much in any of my fifty-thousand reloading manuals, including Ken Water's Bible. I was thinking of dropping a 130 grain Ballistic tip down to the low 2000's. The logic behind it being the ballistic tip will still expand down to the mid 1000's. The slowest load I can find is like 2700 fps. Any suggestions?
Thanks,
Joe

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rcmodel
October 20, 2008, 05:47 PM
Here is exactly what you need to do it safely:

http://www.hodgdon.com/PDF/Youth%20Loads.pdf

1,000 - 1,500 FPS is not realistic with a jacketed bullet due to the risk of sticking one in the bore.

rcmodel

NCsmitty
October 20, 2008, 07:55 PM
There are factory reduced recoil loads available that advertise 50% reduction. Remington and Federal both show loads for the 270 Win. You should be able to near duplicate those I would think.
I found something that might fill the bill.

130 Remington corelokt IMR-4227

grs. vel. energy brl length

28.5 2305 1534 23.0

pressure
53,500cup

NCsmitty

Shawnee
October 20, 2008, 08:41 PM
Why not simply try the factory reduced loads NCSmitty mentioned ?

:cool:

kragluver
October 20, 2008, 08:52 PM
I would not try a reduced load in the .270 (or any large capacity case) with any powder slower than 4227 or 4198. Your best success would be with cast bullets. You could try a "minimum" load with 3031, but it may not give you the recoil reduction you want. As noted above, with j-bullets, I would keep your MV above about 1800 fps. I shoot quite a few reduced loads in my Krag, .30-06 and .303 Brit, but they are all cast bullet loads. My favorite cast bullet powder is SR-4759, but there are other good choices out there (5744, 2400, 3031,others). Recoil is very light and they are accurate even out at 300 yards. I wouldn't hesitate to let my boys take a deer with them out to 75 yards or so.

Ol` Joe
October 20, 2008, 11:10 PM
Speer # 13, pg 214
270 Win 130 gr bullet:
20.0-24.0 SR 4759
Vel 1651-1998 fps

janobles14
October 20, 2008, 11:38 PM
go with the loads rc gave. i have used the 135 gr. loads in .30-06 and they work quite well. the extra weight of the rifle will also help.

joneb
October 21, 2008, 12:44 AM
I was thinking of dropping a 130 grain Ballistic tip down to the low 2000's.
From Accurate's, 2005 reloaders guide,
Cartridge- .270 Win.
Barrel- 24" HS precision
primer- Rem 9.5
case- Rem.
Bullet- Nos. 130gr BT, COL 3.330"
powder- 5744
start- 24.5gr vel. 1950 fps
Max.- 36.5gr vel. 2748 fps

J23
October 21, 2008, 01:53 AM
Where are you getting that data? IMR4227 and 130 grain core-lokt? I have 4227 on hand. I cant find that data anywhere.
THanks

NCsmitty
October 21, 2008, 09:27 AM
J23, that was a load that is listed on the Ammoguide site that I'm a member of. You have to be a member to see the data. Runs $18.95 a year and tons of info and specs. Here's more info at another site. Select a powder and look at the data.

http://www.reloadersnest.com/frontpage.asp?CaliberID=39

NCsmitty

jfdavis58
October 21, 2008, 09:54 AM
Speer 13 and Lyman 49th list reduced loads; they will be the last loads in the list and usually have a "*" or similar with a footnote.

langenc
October 22, 2008, 07:54 PM
As noted use the Hodgdon data listed on their website. May download 60%-any published load (any bullet weight/any caliber) with H4895--ONLY H 4895.

Correction: Just checked the Hodgdon website "YOUTH LOADS"
any load listed (with H 4895 ONLY)in the Hodgdon Load Books-27th edition may be reduced to 60% of listed load.

ArchAngelCD
October 23, 2008, 01:21 AM
I've tried the Hodgdon "youth load" for the 30-06 and it's soft shooting and very accurate. I'm sure the same will hold true for the .270 load too. Just remember, use only H4895 because that's the powder they tested and is safe.

Remo-99
October 23, 2008, 05:14 AM
Also note, if your using hunting bullets intended for 270win, those bullets are not going to expand as intend at those reduced velocities, maybe the use of a 270 win varmint bullet, a bullet intended for 6.8mm rem with lighter copper jacket, or as some others suggested a cast lead bullet.

My speer #11 manual shows a reduced charge for 270win using IMR SR4759;
20gr for 1651fps to 24gr for 1998fps with 130gr jacketed bullets,
or 16gr for 1548fps to 20gr for 1915fps with 100gr jacketed.

Also i've been using 130gr gaschecked cast lead bullets in 270win. These are UNPUBLISHED loads in any manuals, but are low pressure(and very low recoil) in my rifle;
18gr ADI-AP100 estimated 1500fps
20gr ADI-AR2205 (Hodgdon H4227) estimated +1800fps.

To further add, your point of aim and point of impact will very quite a bit with loads of around 2000fps compared with full power loads in 270win, I find i need to aim about six inches over at around 50-100 yards.

GooseGestapo
October 23, 2008, 08:06 AM
Since you desire a reduced recoil load for HUNTING DEER, and you state that you have some 4227, I recommend this load. Remember that the 130gr bullets aren't going to give good expansion below about 1,600-1,800fps, the 100's are usually varmint bullets and have thinner jackets and will work splendidly at 2,000+fps. Remember that recoil is a factor of bullet weight, velocity, weight of ejecta (including powder), and rifle weight. The 100gr bullet with a lighter charge of faster burning powder IS going to produce less recoil, and with all else equal, the 110gr bullet is going to be faster, hence more likely to expand.

100gr bullet (.277),
IMR4227 @ 25.8gr (2,371fps) max. 30.0gr (2,710fps)
Taken from Lee Modern Reloading, #2

I recommend the Speer 100gr Spt, for this application.
Many years ago I saw a Jack O'Connor recommendation for this loading in a Question/Answer column in I believe "OUTDOOR LIFE" magazine column.
The max. load should perform very much like a .243wcf with a 100gr bullet, or conversly, a .250Savage w/100gr bullet. Not bad at all!

ArchAngelCD
October 24, 2008, 02:44 AM
Using that 130gr Ballistic Tip bullet and going with Hodgdon's youth load data I think you you be right around 2000 fps. The recommended Max load for H4895 is 45.0gr and will generate 2922 fps and 51,000 CUP. 60% of that charge is 27.0gr and if you're correct about the Ballistic tip expanding reliable at those velocities I think you have a winner!

the foot
October 24, 2008, 08:29 PM
Maybe the problem is not finding a reduced load. Maybe the problem is that somebody wants to hunt with a caliber he is not capable of shooting safely.

moosehunt
October 25, 2008, 12:28 PM
Instead of a reduced load with a 130 gr bullet (kind of a .270 standard), why not consider a lighter bullet, i.e. 110 gr? I use such a lot for general practice. It is very light recoiling even when maintaining pretty decent velocity. I've shot several coyotes with it and it performs well (I know, that's not a deer), but I once took it deer hunting for some forgotten reason and it performed quite well on a deer at about 150 yards. Try it, you might like it (plenty of data available for this bullet weight).

Walkalong
October 25, 2008, 01:57 PM
The Hodgdon youth data is a great place to start.

Also, IMR's SR-4759 (http://www.imrpowder.com/sr4759.html) and Accurate's 5744 (http://www.accuratepowder.com/data/5744.htm) powders are useful for reduced loads in rifle calibers. They were expressly designed for it.

Remo-99
October 25, 2008, 09:52 PM
Instead of a reduced load with a 130 gr bullet (kind of a .270 standard), why not consider a lighter bullet, i.e. 110 gr?

J23, MooseHunt has good point, I like using the Hornady 110gr hollow spirepoint(#2720) charging cases with 'starting loads' only.
They take the edge off 130gr fullpower loads in my lightweight rifle(7.25Lbs inc. scope) As i'll often use around 60-80rnds in a single outing for doing vermin control.

After having surgery done on my shoulder, it doesn't take many fullpower loads before it gets too uncomfortable to shoot them.

But I can shoot the 110gr lower charged 270win all day long.

J23
November 4, 2008, 04:04 AM
In case anyone was curious how this turned out...

I tryed several different weights with two powders, H4895 and IMR4227. Without boring everyone with all of the failed combinations (nothing catastrophic, I still have fingers to type this...) I settled on 27 grains of IMR4227 with a 130 grain Ballistic Tip, CCI 200 primers.

Through his Rossi (18-1/2" barrel,) the average velocity ran 2,085 fps at 15 feet. Accuracy was... OK, but the best I could get. groups ran around an inch and a half for three shots at 50 yds. Now, keep in mind that the 'scope' was a 5MOA red dot; we're not exactly talking about precision aiming here.

Regarding it's performance on game, I called Nosler and talked to them about their .277/130 Yellow Tipped wonder bullet. They advised me that positive expansion would occur down to 1,600 fps. According to my ballistics program, that doesnt occur to well past 100 yards. The requirement of this load was to shoot deer out to 75 yards without recoil for a pretty frail nine year old.

Which brings us to the final point.. recoil? None, and that is a literal statement. It kicks about as much as my M4, without the muzzlejump.

Im calling it a success and thanks to everyone who contributed. NCsmitty, you inspired this one... Ill keep everyone posted if the little guy gets his first deer with, 'The load.'

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