Candidate Security How Does This Work?


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Treo
October 21, 2008, 12:18 PM
Sarah Palin gave a speech in Colorado Springs Monday. Sunday night she did a little photo-op thing where she took her daughter to get some ice cream here in the Springs, kind of a get out and meet the people thing.

Given open carry is legal here and Co. is a shall issue state, there's a good chance that somebody beside her security detail was packing in that store.

So how does that work? If I'm in the store minding my own business W/ (obviously) no prior knowldge that they were coming, and (for the purpose of this discussion) I'm O.C.ing what happens when I walk out of the john or stand up from my table and the S.S. sees that I'm heeled?

Side note given that it was Sarah Palin I wouldn't be surprised if she had a CCW herself. She would probably be like " Day-um that's a nice lookin' CZ you got bud, vote for me." Of course, that assumes she'd have time to say it before I got dogpiled

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Jorg Nysgerrig
October 21, 2008, 12:39 PM
I think you would be remiss to assume they simply show up to these sort of things on a whim.

You can be reasonably certain you aren't just going to be sitting there with a gun or coming out of the john when she is actually there.

BayouBocephus
October 21, 2008, 12:49 PM
I agree with the above. I think that they would first do a sweep of the area long before she arrived

Treo
October 21, 2008, 01:03 PM
So they do a sweep, O.C. is legal her, so is eating ice cream. Regardless of who the dignitary is I lose right to free acess to a public facility? Remember I've broken no laws and created no disturbance, I don't imagine they shut down the restaruant an hour prior ( I'd be totally pissed if I was the owner) so what do they do walk in and pat down every customer in the store? I'm begining to see that this could be a real logistics nightmare.

If they didn't walk in and pat everyone down ( I would think a random ice cream shop would be pretty safe) it's conceivable that they could run into a perfect storm of some body sitting in there W/ the family while packing. Although, I will grant it would be a long shot.

ETA I will agree that it was very likely staged given her hotel was cleeeeeeeaaaar across town from the ice cream shop. Which just happened to be on the main drag.

Jorg Nysgerrig
October 21, 2008, 01:24 PM
Regardless of who the dignitary is I lose right to free acess to a public facility? Remember I've broken no laws and created no disturbance

Help, help, I'm being repressed! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o76WQzVJ434) :)


I don't imagine they shut down the restaruant an hour prior ( I'd be totally pissed if I was the owner)
That's exactly what they do. The owners are usually glad to have the publicity and even if they aren't, they are compensated from campaign funds, usually enough to make it worth shutting down for several hours.

This sort of thing is entirely staged by her handlers. From the selection of which ice cream shop to the patrons who just happen to be in the store and likely even the flavors of ice cream they have available, every bit of it is choreographed.

Treo
October 21, 2008, 01:36 PM
That sucks

yeti
October 21, 2008, 01:38 PM
And she is the Governor of Alaska, she doesn't need a permit to CC.

And don't worry Treo, I'm sure they already have you on their watch list.:what:
:neener::evil:

ilbob
October 21, 2008, 02:53 PM
This sort of thing is entirely staged by her handlers. From the selection of which ice cream shop to the patrons who just happen to be in the store and likely even the flavors of ice cream they have available, every bit of it is choreographed.
Politicians stage everything that happens in public view. The clothes they wear, the things they say, where they go, everything.

I can bet you BHO is probably pissed at Joe the Plumber getting through the screening process. The handlers are supposed to make sure the people he talks to off the cuff are friendly and well briefed on what to say.

wep45
October 21, 2008, 03:00 PM
right....what right??:confused: you may enjoy some temporary privileges from time to time.........just don't get on the bad side of big brother:evil:

Fish Miner
October 21, 2008, 03:05 PM
Why would BHO be upset with Joe the Plumber? That blew up in Mcains face-

As for Security- you can see her detail working in the back ground- doing their job- America isn't so brainwashed and controlled that real events don't happen at the political events. HAve some faith in the AMerican process- good lord evryone thinks the end of the world is coming every four years, and you know what? this site and many others will still be here Nov 5th, we can still enjoy our sport and protect ourselves and our family, its just the president not the second coming of Jesus.

Treo
October 21, 2008, 03:08 PM
And don't worry Treo, I'm sure they already have you on their watch list

Dude, you don't even know. See my thread in legal ( inspired by your quote above)

Speedo66
October 21, 2008, 03:38 PM
Ask the guy who was arrested with a rifle because he happened to be in the same hotel as Nancy Pelosi a few months ago.

TAB
October 21, 2008, 03:41 PM
Nat'l security always thrumps rights... always has, always will.

Jim K
October 21, 2008, 03:51 PM
"its just the president not the second coming of Jesus"

Well, some of Sen. Obama's supporters have called him "the Second Son of God", "the Messiah", and "the Fourth Prophet." Can you spell "over the top adoration"?

One interesting story was the incident when Buchanan was running several years ago. He decided he wanted to go to a gun show. The woman in charge of his security detail OK'd it, thinking of a small room with a couple of guns.

They get inside and this is a 2000 table show, so there are probably at least 20,000 guns in the place, not to mention thousands of knives and hundreds of thousands of rounds of ammo.

The woman goes nutty. She can't possibly seize all those guns, and she can't get the candidate out of there without creating a political problem.

So, observing the signs on sticks that the campaign had passed out in advance, she decided to confiscate - the sticks. Potential weapons that could be dangerous to the candidate. Isn't it wonderful to be protected?

Jim

The Bushmaster
October 21, 2008, 03:58 PM
Gentlemen...Alaska doesn't have or issue CCW permits...Everybody carries as the wish...As it should be everywhere...

redneckrepairs
October 21, 2008, 04:00 PM
Look folks like it or not in this day and age Security folk such as the SS is rightfully concerned about anyone armed around ANY canadate . Now honestly with most of the members of this forum the concern is mis plased in a couple of areas , however they will do what they can to foil the average idiot who would shoot from up close , and with a pistol . I wont speak to what i know of security , but i will say that in any endever to protect folks you cannot discount the idiot with a pistol or a butter knife ( both have equal chance of success LOL) . When a " protected person " visits a business it does not allways involve vetting all the persons there , it does however involve a period of time when the advance security scopes out the patrons , and then gives the go ahead . Before you see a canadate you will have 4 to 6 of the detail around you . If they see you are carrying well the " unseduled " stop is likely not to happen . Or conversly you may have a real private conversation whereby you either disarm, be detained , or leave , your choice . The choice to hit the venue or not is pretty much left up to the canadate , the choice of disarming citizens is not . That is strictly left to the good folks who are responsible for the safety of all of our polititions nowadays . They tend to error on the side of safety , and if i should understand that a politition no matter it be obama , mccain , biden , palin , ect ... was coming to a business i wold agree to leave rather than disarm and then get to hell out of there . I really dont care to meet any of them anyway lol .

TAB
October 21, 2008, 04:14 PM
You know I highly doubt they would give you a chance to leave... its either disarmed or detained.( assuming they are bring the protecte in )


Think about it for a second... you just gave the heads up to some one you know is armed that a target will be coming by very shortly. Now I'm not a SS agent, nor am I a professional body guard, but with my exp in the USCG as well as other "self defence" classes. There is no way in hell I would take the chance.

RPCVYemen
October 21, 2008, 04:14 PM
I will ask my brother-in-law about security next time I see him. He owns a restaurant in Iowa that's been pretty popular with Democratic candidates. I know Obama stopped by there during the primary, and he talked to my brother-in-law for some time. I think my brother-in-law said that Obama came back to the kitchen and they talked there. Plenty of very sharp knives around - not sure what security would think of that.

It's not altogether clear to me how/when candidates get Secret Service protection. I know that candidates do get protection at some point in the campaign - maybe after becoming the party's nominee?

I wonder if Obama got earlier protection this year since he's probably at more risk of being assassinated.

Given my brother-in-law's style of restaurant and politics, I doubt that anyone in the restaurant needed to be disarmed.

Mike

JImbothefiveth
October 21, 2008, 04:23 PM
Alaska doesn't have or issue CCW permits.
Actually, I think they do issue them, just so you can carry in certain other states that honor Alaska's permit.

redneckrepairs
October 21, 2008, 04:23 PM
You know I highly doubt they would give you a chance to leave.

In my ( swing ) state at least your mistaken lol . You will have the chance to leave , or disarm and stay , your choice . either way you will be run so as to have both your wanted status and your criminal history up front ( if any ) .

RPCVYemen
October 21, 2008, 04:29 PM
I guess I answered my own question.

In 1968, as a result of presidential candidate Robert F. Kennedy's assassination, Congress authorized protection of major presidential and vice presidential candidates and nominees (Public Law 90-331).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Secret_Service

And here is how it's going in this election cycle:

By law, the Secret Service provides protection of major presidential and vice presidential candidates and their spouses. Many believe the Secret Service arbitrarily decides which candidates get protection. But that is not the case. The secretary of homeland security determines who the major candidates are after consulting with an advisory committee consisting of the speaker and minority leader of the House, the majority and minority leaders of the Senate, and one additional member selected by the other members of the committee.

The secretary of homeland security decides when to begin protection of candidates. Protection of spouses begins 120 days before the general election, unless authorized before that by DHS or by executive order.

At one point, based on the public record, the Secret Service counted 15 possible candidates. As it turned out, three presidential candidates have received protection. As a former first lady, Sen. Hillary Clinton already had Secret Service protection. Sen. Barack Obama began receiving protection on May 3, 2007, 18 months before any primary votes were to be cast. And Sen. John McCain joined the roster this past spring. In contrast, in the 2004 election, John Kerry and John Edwards began receiving protection in February 2004, eight months before the general election.

The decision to protect Obama early stemmed from real worries that the first serious African-American candidate for president could face danger. The Secret Service says Obama never received a specific threat against his life before his Secret Service detail was assigned. But agents on the Secret Service’s Internet Threat Desk discovered a number of vaguely threatening and nasty comments about Obama on the Web. Many of the comments appeared on white supremacist Web sites.

http://www.newsmax.com/kessler/Secret_Service_Sullivan_2/2008/08/19/123522.html

Mike

Treo
October 21, 2008, 04:33 PM
I might even consider disarming I think the experience would be worth it.
[FLAME SUIT ON ]

RKBABob
October 21, 2008, 04:46 PM
I might even consider disarming if I thought it would make them go away! :neener:

cassandrasdaddy
October 21, 2008, 06:57 PM
when bush the elder was in power he used to hit a lil tex mex place in bethesda once in a while. they scoped it out and he got a lil private dining room but they didn't vet staff or poatrons. nor did they close down.

the secret service is intense and they move real fast. not to be screwed with. i worked 7 years at the mayfloer in dc we saw them a lot

jakemccoy
October 21, 2008, 09:38 PM
Secret Service clears the store and its perimeter. Her life is more important than yours. Also, she's carrying the Secret Service. So, it doesn't matter if she's carrying a gun on herself. She's not your peer until you're carrying the Secret Service also.

Dirty Dawg
October 21, 2008, 11:03 PM
Secret Service clears the store and its perimeter.

Yep. Typically, they clear the area then control everyone and everything that happens for the duration. I've had occasion to meet many SS agents assigned to any number of highly placed political types. Some are very laid back and fun to be around and some are high strung and intense but they are all very observant and on top of their game. I wouldn't mind having a couple to watch my back.

RPCVYemen
October 21, 2008, 11:23 PM
Her life is more important than yours.

I don't think that any politician would argue that his or her life is more or less important than anyone else's life. I think the protection is there for two reasons:


More people want to kill (some) politicians than want to kill you or me. For example, at any given time in the US, there are probably 100s of times as many people that want to to kill the President as there are who want to kill you or me. In addition, there is no one who wants to kill because of my job - I am not in any kind of public office. The reality is that there are people who want to kill public officials for fame, glory, revenge, etc.
It is critically important that our political process not be subverted by violence. If that were to happen, then our policy would be determined by the most violent among us.


Mike

Riz58
October 21, 2008, 11:39 PM
Guys, not all stops are staged or planned in advance. I have been involved in politics at fairly high levels for years. For example, when then VP Quayle stopped in my hometown, on the way to the event, on the spur of the moment, he stopped and shook hands in a a small restaurant. The Secret Service goes in just ahead, scans the building or room and in comes the big dog. Non-scheduled stops are relatively low risk since a BG cannot plan on the political figure stopping there.

Believe it or not, most political candidates really like getting out and meeting the ordinary folks. They are real people, and many were once where we are today.

With that said, stand on your rights and get booted out the door, secured away from the scene until it is safe again, or you may ruin the experience for everyone else who does not get to meet the celebrity. There is a time to stand on your rights and a time for common sense. Cooperate, stow the gun, and everyone will have a good time.

jakemccoy
October 22, 2008, 02:13 AM
I was joking about her life being more important. However, it doesn't really matter what I think...

Dark_Harvest
October 22, 2008, 04:00 AM
You *SHOULD* expect that business to have been vetted several DAYS before the visit, and definitely under watch all day.

I work somewhere with NO PUBLIC ACCESS. You have to have a digital key to even get in the building. Our governor visited recently, and we had unannounced visits from police days beforehand, checking access, etc.

And we are not particularly on the national conscience...

So you can bet that the situation you describe has about a 1,000,000,000,000,000,000 to 1 chance of actually happening.

But if it does, tell her i said hi!

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