After Class today, I got to thinking what could be good Idea's for a custom rifle.
Here's what I got,
8x75R (My own caliber I thought of)
.300 Winchester Magnum
.378 horst Magnum (Another Caliber I thought of)
Winchester 70 (Pre-64)
2 1/2 or 3 pound trigger break
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October 21, 2008, 08:49 PM
What would you use this rifle for. A hybrid paper/ hunter just paper, just hunting? I would use the Mauser action over winchester anyway.
October 21, 2008, 09:34 PM
More of a Hunting rifle than anything
October 21, 2008, 09:57 PM
Mauser action, timney trigger, your choice of stock (although I really like Mannlicher style). Chambering of your choice, although the first three you mention really aren't a good idea. If you really want a great medium bore that fits and feeds well look at the 9.3 x 62, 8 x 57 or 7 x 57.
I've had one custom built in 7x57 and one in .458 Winny, pre-war VZ24 action and Daly Mauser action, both with 24" barrels in my preferred contour. The 7x57 has a B&C synthetic stock with no iron sights, the .458 has a laminate stock with bachup sights. Both are great for the use I intended.
Keep in mind you'll spend more than a factory rifle, and the resale sucks if you get rid of it, but you can build exactly what you want.
October 21, 2008, 10:01 PM
It would be easier and cheaper to buy a Stevens 200 or a Savage in maybe, 7MM Rem Mag or 300 Win Mag.
If you're up to the challenge, then a Mauser conversion may scratch that itch. Just be prepared to spend money unless you have machine tools and experience or good friends. A custom chambering will add a bit too. A Mannlicher Stock is always a nice touch on a Mauser.
October 21, 2008, 10:02 PM
okay, first of all, not a .7mm, but a 7mm would be better, (:D) and which one. with a middle of the road 7mm, i would choose the mauser action, and shoehorning a accutrigger would be cool too. i personally like thumbhole type stocks. that is what i would do.
October 21, 2008, 11:39 PM
first i would look at a few of the rifles being built at curio and relic firearms forum (http://curioandrelicfirearmsforum.yuku.com/) , MFRC (http://www.sporterizing.com/index.php?act=idx) & at accurate reloading (http://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/frm/f/9411043) for ideas.
i prefer mauser sporters but i also have a couple of springfield 1903's, a mannlicher schoenauer 1903 & a couple of mosin projects.
if this is going to be your first project i would try to keep it simple.
go with a mauser action, i pick them up as donor rifles on gunbroker for anywhere from $75-150 depending on the the maker.
buy a threaded & short chambered barrel in 7mm mauser but have it stamped .275 rigby because it sounds much cooler, adams & bennet barrels are under $100 at midway.
install a lyman receiver sight, necg banded front sight & a talley or gentry barrel band swivel. cut off the original bolt handle & have a talley style handle welded on.
pick up a nice classic style semi inlet stock from great american gunstocks with a checkered metal cap & buttplate.
the only work you will actually need to have the gunsmith do is finish ream the barrel, drill & tap for the receiver sight & weld on the bolt handle if you don't have the tools, possibly the blueing too if you don'y want to try your hand at rust blueing.
doing it like this for your first project will give you some wood & metal working skills, not break the bank & let you know if you want to get more involved in building custom rifles.
October 25, 2008, 02:37 AM
have you looked at the new precision actions by Savage. http://www.savagearms.com/TA_223_Bolt.htm
I think the MSRP is way higher than what they actually go for
November 11, 2008, 04:31 PM
I was just ripped off by Henry Pohl of Great American Gunstocks today. Check out the site Ripoffreport.com if you think I'm doing this because of a chip on my shoulder - I don't want other gun lovers to get similarly hosed. I paid $600 for a roughed out stock. Yes, it has really nice wood, but the action screw holes were so far off center and angled inside the stock that they had to be be bored out and plugged. I may yet have to pillar bed the action to keep the repair job from looking cheesy. I waited three months for the stock - a month longer than promised; I have two full days in filing and shaping and sanding to get the shaper gouges out - not finish sanded. Worse, I relied on the position of the action screw holes to start finishing the inletting for the action and may have take off too much wood on one side to get a proper metal to wood fit. It's a custom order and I've worked on it so I can't send it back, and with the work and the wait I wouldn't want to - so I told Henry I wanted a partial refund for the additional work his mistake had caused. His response was I should be happy I only paid $600 for such a nice stock. Buyer beware.http://www.thehighroad.org/images/smilies/angryfire.gif
Thanks for the heads up, chipchaff, and welcome - can't believe that guy said that to you after screwing up the holes/inletting.
November 11, 2008, 05:26 PM
On a lighter note, I'm in the process of building a custom starting with a pre-64 model 70 action, Shilen #5 contour match grade, which I will chamber in .257 Roberts, and stock with a very striking, albeit somewhat flawed, piece of French walnut.
Project #2 is another Shilen barrel and Win action (also pre-64) for its companion piece in .375 H&H. I haven't bought the chambering reamer or stock for that one yet.
I have a pre-war model 70 with the original barrel in .300 H&H - haven't decided what to do with that one yet. It's a poorly refinished, well used Alaska bush/guide gun marked only ".300 Magnum" as it predates any other .30 mag - it was a gift from a pawnshop owner in AK who let me play gunsmith in his shop for free. Great guy.
Anyway - that's what makes my socks go up and down.
Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
November 13, 2008, 10:10 AM
Hey Chipchaff, I emailed that company asking them for an explanation on your situation, so I guess now I'm acting as mediator since I actually got response; here it is:
***, I appreciate the opportunity you've given me to respond to these allegations. I will include the e-mails that I have received from this "disgruntled" customer. First let me say that we are a manufacturing company of custom and original style gunstocks. We manufacture semi-finished gunstocks and also have a custom shop where we fit, finish and checker gunstocks. We guarrantee our stocks for replacement or refund. However, as with any other company in business today, we are trying to make money. We don't do that by providing a stock to a customer and taking it back after they have altered it to the point that it is no longer useable. It is the customers resposibility to check the stock upon receipt to insure that there is no shipping damage, it is the right stock for the application and that the stock was correctly machined to his satisfaction before starting to work. If any of these things are a problem, we will replace or refund at the customers discretion. If a stock has been worked on and the customer wants to return it for replacement or refund, it is then at our discretion and we must have the opportunity to inspect the stock. When a customer sends an e-mail stating that we "screwed up his stock" and wants a refund but is not going to return the stock, its like a Roy Mercer phone call. I am supposed to take his word for the fact and just send money or he will hold my company hostage. I am sorry but I cannot believe any reasonable human being would expect that. We make semi-finished stocks, they are just that. A gunstock that is machined, shaped and inletted, to approximately 95% completion. The customer then has the option of inletting, sanding and finishing himself, having a competent gunsmith do it or sending the barreled action to us. This customer is an self proclaimed amature gunbuilder that should have practiced his skills before starting on such an expensive peice of wood. Few of us recognize our limitations before we make the attempt. At this point, given the circumstances, my company will not issue a refund for the gunstock.
> I'm using your email address in the event one of your employees received
> the other two I sent to the "Sales@gunstocks" address and failed to pass
> them on. I do know, however, that you responded to an email sent by a
> friend of mine to that address.
> Since I wrote you last I contacted the owner of a custom stock-making and
> stock repair company. He, Bill, was kind enough to give me his advice -
> he confirmed that the only way to repair off-center holes was to bore them
> oversize and either install pillars or plug the holes and redrill them.
> If I did remove too much wood from the inside of the right action wall
> before I recognized the problem with the screw holes I will have to glass
> bed the action. Bill said I should anyway if I install pillars.
> Aesthetically I don't like the look of the crescent remains of dowels half
> drilled out - it looks like a cheap repair. I did not tell Bill who sold
> me the stock.
> Henry, If I don't hear from you I will surmise you don't intend to
> compensate me for your mistake. That would be unfortunate for us both as
> I assure you, you will lose far more in reputation and sales. It's not
> simply the money; it's the principle - I hate being taken advantage of and
> I won't let this rest until I believe some form of parity has been
> A prompt reply would be appreciated.
> My name is Mark *****. I bought a Gary Goudy Classic in #1 English
> Walnut for a pre-64 Winchester, Shilen #5 barrel. I told you when I
> called for a progress report that shortly after I placed my order I came
> across a number of negative posts about your business and was concerned
> about what I might get. When I received the stock I was delighted with
> the wood and called you to say so. As I told you I would, I went to the
> sites where I found the complaints against you and reported my positive
> experience. I got a couple of replies from professional gun makers on one
> site who were glad to hear you were still turning out nice work.
> I started inletting the action this morning and realized pretty quickly
> that with the exception of the recoil lug I was removing material almost
> exclusively from the right side of the stock - I thought at first that was
> because the right side was thicker, as I found in measuring for a butt
> plate, and thought the problem was with the rough inletting. As work
> progressed, it just didn't look right. I realized that the action was
> canted slightly and discovered that the rearmost screw hole was off center
> to the right by 85 to 90 thousandths - almost a tenth of an inch. As a
> result, the rough inletting on the left side around the tang area would
> have a big gap even without removing any additional wood. I put my
> inletting screws in the front and middle action holes and sighted through
> the rear action hole and saw the hole in the stock is out of line with the
> forward most and center holes by half the screw thickness.
> I am furious that you or your employees did not get even this most basic
> aspect of roughing out a stock correct, especially after spending two days
> cleaning up gouges left by the shaper. I don't think there is enough wood
> remaining on the right side to achieve a correct fit if I plug and redrill
> the rear hole or bore it out and install a pillar or a sleeve. This is
> absolutely NOT something I should have to do to a stock I paid $600 for in
> very rough form.
> I am not going to jump through hoops to try to return the stock or argue
> with you about why the stock is the way it is. I need to get this rifle
> done. I am going to try to repair the hole and live with the results even
> if I have to glass the action in to fill the gaps. My time to repair and
> attempt to mask your error and the resulting gaps, along with the hassle
> factor of trying to sell a less than perfect high grade rifle, is worth
> $250. Send me a check for $250 and I will consider us even and the matter
> closed. If I do not receive this partial refund by Friday, November 21st,
> I will be a sorely aggrieved customer and I will publicize this as widely
> and as relentlessly as I am able as a service and a warning to anyone else
> contemplating doing business with Great American Gunstocks. There should
> be no doubt in your mind I am a man of my word and will honor my
> commitment fully to either of the options you choose.
> My address is as follows:
> Mark *****
> [address redacted]
> A paper copy of this letter will follow by post Monday morning in the
> event you don't check your email regularly.
> Mark *****
> I found in determining the truest center for the top length of the stock
> that the forward hole was also off to the right of center, although not as
> much as was the rear hole.
> I drilled out the front and rear action holes to plug them and in the
> process I determined what probably went wrong on your end. The holes on
> the underside of the stock were correctly positioned in the rough
> inletting but missed the top center to the right. I suspect either the
> stock was canted when the bottom was drilled or the inletting on the top
> and bottom are not square. Next, the stock was drilled from the top down.
> Whoever did that wallowed out laterally oblong conical holes - maybe
> searching for the correct angle. I put the stock on my vertical mill and
> used a pilot to find the center of the top and bottom holes at the
> external surfaces to within a couple of thousandths. When I drilled
> through using a .250 bit I found there was a dogleg where the two holes
> met inside the stock and I had to use a larger drill (.285) to straighten
> the holes to take the dowels.
> Predictably, when I started trying to finish the inletting yesterday, the
> inletting screws aligned with the bottom half of the holes as they were
> the tightest part.
> You made your choice. **** you.
> Relax, Henry, this is the last you'll hear of me directly. I just want
> you to know that I'm not taking this quietly and the ripples are spreading
> across the water.
> I wrote this in response to a recommendation a member of HighRoad or
> HuntAmerica made a few days ago to another member to buy a semi-inletted
> stock from you:
> "I was just ripped off by Henry Pohl of Great American Gunstocks today.
> Check out the site Ripoffreport.com if you think I'm doing this because of
> a chip on my shoulder - I don't want other gun lovers to get similarly
> hosed. I paid $600 for a roughed out stock. Yes, it has really nice wood,
> but the action screw holes were so far off center and angled inside the
> stock that they had to be be bored out and plugged. I may yet have to
> pillar bed the action to keep the repair job from looking cheesy. I waited
> three months for the stock - a month longer than promised; I have two full
> days in filing and shaping and sanding to get the shaper gouges out - not
> finish sanded. Worse, I relied on the position of the action screw holes
> to start finishing the inletting for the action and may have taken off too
> much wood on one side to get a proper metal to wood fit. It's a custom
> order and I've worked on it so I can't send it back, and with the work and
> the wait I
> wouldn't want to - so I told Henry I wanted a partial refund for the
> additional work his mistake had caused. His response was I should be happy
> I only paid $600 for such a nice stock. Buyer beware."
> Henry -
> I reversed the positive comment I had left on you on Rip-Off Report dot
> com and have started hitting the firearm sites - here's what I posted on
> firingline. As I said, I am a man of my word.
> Ripped off by Henry Pohl Great American Gunstock Co.
> Just today I got ripped off by Henry Pohl of Great American Gunstock Co.
> I ordered a stock in the second highest grade of English Walnut for a
> pre-64 Model 70 action and paid $600 for it - I really wanted it to look
> After I ordered it and saw my credit card get hit I came across a bunch of
> posts about bad products and service from Henry Pohl/GAG. I was so
> relieved when I got a pretty piece of wood that I went on line to counter
> some of the negative stuff I'd read.
> I didn't care that the stock was rougher than a cob - I figured that was
> all part of the do it yourself thing. I spent two days with files and
> sandpaper getting the shaper gouges out of it - I had to reform the nose
> of the cheek piece because it had been chewed up pretty good in the
> shaping process - still, I was OK with that. The right side of the butt
> was a lot fatter than the left - sand away.
> Then I went to try to inlet the action - bad news - the inletting screw
> holes were so far off center I couldn't possibly get a good metal to wood
> fit. I had to bore out and plug the existing holes and may have to pillar
> bed the action. Worst of all, before I realized the action holes were off,
> I shaved wood off and may have taken too much to get a decent fit with the
> correctly repositioned holes - so I may have to glass-bed the action.
> That's not such a bad thing for accuracy but it's like putting mag wheels
> on a Bentley - not appropriate on a classic.
> I waited three months for the stock - a month longer than promised, had
> two plus days in cleaning it up and I ordered it with custom features
> which make it non-returnable - so I wouldn't and couldn't return it. I
> wrote Henry and told him I wanted a partial refund. His answer was this -
> exactly as he wrote me:
> "However, even if the hole is a little miscut, the stock was sent with the
> opinion that regardless of what minor blems their might be found in it it
> was nonetheless worth the asking price. I regret that you don't feel this
> way, but I honestly think your judgement is somewhat severely and unfairly
> negative. Where else can you get a gunstock that nice for such a low
> Horsesh*t. That's a polite version of "Screw you, live with it."
> Henry Pohl, proprietor of Great American Gunstock Co, talks a good game up
> front, but as you can see, his work is shoddy, and he has absolutely no
> honor when it comes to addressing flaws.
> If you are leery of my motives, check out all the comments on
Great American Gunstock Co.
Visit Us Online At Gunstocks.com
November 13, 2008, 10:20 AM
Please remove the persons full name, address. Not cool to post somebody's personal info on the net.
It also bothers me that Great American Gunstocks released this info to somebody else.
November 13, 2008, 11:39 AM
Do you have gunsmithing equipment and skills?
Do you have a lot of money for a professional?
Do you know the characteristics of the calibers and actions you mention? (Several of those calibers would not be feasible to put in a Winchester or Mauser action. An Accutrigger is only available as factory equipment on a Savage rifle.)
Study up. Look before you leap.
November 13, 2008, 01:53 PM
Mauser action (Oh, heck, what's that metal treatment process...? Makes it look like dark stainless and highly corrosion resistant)
Custom fluted/jeweled bolt
Shilen SS fluted barrel -hard chromed and bead blasted
Kevlar stock with something like a decelerator recoil system.
November 14, 2008, 06:34 PM
I don't mind seeing my emails to Great American Gunstock Co. here on the HighRoad - I think it tells the story pretty well.
Yes I am an amateur gunbuilder but I have a pretty complete machine shop and I was able to set the stock up square and drill out the action holes on my Bridgeport vertical mill and machine aluminum pillars to a .002" press fit on my Hardinge lathe. I was able to get the holes in the correct position on the lower and upper inletting and in parallel so now I can finish the inletting. When it's done, I think it will be a beautiful stock and a very credible job.
If I were Henry, I would be embarrassed that an "amateur" could do a better job at something so simple as drilling a couple of holes on center. I just wish I hadn't had to put the pillars in, not that they'll be readily visible, just I don't think they belong on a classic hunting rifle.
As for not wanting to return the stock - GAG's site specifically states that a custom stock cannot be returned, nor can a stock which has been worked on. As I said before, I waited a month longer than the two months I was told it would take to get the stock and I had already put in more than two solid days of cleanup on the stock so no, I did not want to send in the stock for another one or have Henry mangle this one further. I would gladly have provided other evidence of the problem - photos, another "professional" gunsmith's evaluation, etc., but I wasn't mailing the stock to Henry.
Look at Henry's original refusal to consider a partial refund, which I believe is his truest response: he dismisses my description of the error in drilling as a little misplaced and says that any problem or "blems" in the stock were already factored into the "asking price" and that I should be happy that I got such a beautiful stock for $600. To dismiss my complaint now as the quibbling of a know-nothing amateur is a smokescreen.
I didn't wake up one morning and decide I was going to try to extort a refund out of GAG and go through all this hassle for $250. When I first got my stock I was so relieved it was pretty wood that I went on line and commended GAG to counter some of the negative press I'd read - check out my first post on ripoffreport.com - I praised GAG! It was only when I realized that they had screwed up the action holes and I was going to have to fix it that I got pissed off. I've probably spent a lot more than $250 in time at minimum wage pursing fairness - as I said, it's not so much the money, it's the principle. I don't think companies should get away blissfully passing off slipshod work.
The fact is the action holes were far enough out of line that the stock had to be repaired - it has nothing whatsoever to do with it being a rough inletted stock or me being an amateur - it was a mistake and a fairly obvious one at that once I put the action guide screws through. The only reason I didn't realize that the problem was the screw holes was because until I analyzed the situation, I never would have thought something so basic could have been screwed up so badly. I thought a partial refund would be the best solution for both Henry and me. Having no other leverage but to hold Henry and his company publicly accountable, that is what I threatened to do and am doing.
For better or worse, that's my case. Use GAG; don't use GAG; up to you. I just wish I had come across some of the negatives before I placed my order, because Henry's assertion to the contrary, there are a lot of people selling nice custom stock - it just takes some research.
All the best,
November 14, 2008, 07:43 PM
Oh, one minor point of correction, Brian Sharp has my emails in the wrong order and it may be confusing to some who bother to pay that much attention.
November 14, 2008, 09:25 PM
A semi auto as reliable as the AK with a wood thumbhole stock, in 8mm, with M1 sights.
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