Blissninny heaven - a gun that won't kill...


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Preacherman
September 14, 2003, 11:31 AM
From the Cincinnati Enquirer (http://www.enquirer.com/editions/2003/09/14/loc_pepperball14.html):

Pepper gun wins converts at mall

By Marie McCain
Sunday, September 14, 2003

SYCAMORE TWP. - Until Saturday, Coretta Rutherford's weapon of choice - if she ever needed to defend herself - was a rock in a footie sock tucked discreetly under the driver's seat of her car.

But after squeezing off a baby-powder-packed round from a handgun and watching as it slammed into the torso of a battered mannequin 10 feet away, she had an epiphany.

As the cloud of talcum dissipated, the 58-year-old Kennedy Heights resident, who had never shot a firearm before Saturday, resolved to buy a pepper spray gun.

"I hesitated as I started to pull the trigger," she said at the makeshift shooting range set up outside the Parisian store at Kenwood Towne Center.

"I kept thinking this is a gun and I could kill someone. But then I realized these pellets - even if they were filled with pepper spray - wouldn't kill anyone. And I fired."

Rutherford was one of dozens of Greater Cincinnati residents who attended the three-hour, hands-on demonstration by PepperBall Technologies, Inc.

She is the kind of customer the San Diego-based business hopes to attract with its $280 gun, said Jose Marrero, president and CEO of the company, which touts the motto "Kill a threat ... not a person."

Abe Caldwell, of Pleasant Ridge, also test-fired the weapon Saturday.

A gun owner in his 50s, Caldwell said the pepper spray weapon was something he would use in the event of a home invasion.

"It would be wise to shoot to stop, rather than shoot to kill," he said. "You never know someone's intent and if they're breaking in to steal something that's different than if it's somebody who wants to do harm."

Police officers have worried that arming the public with anything that looks like a real gun can be dangerous. And that pointing a gun at a burglar could backfire.

Marrero discounted the concerns. He said the gun is considered non-lethal and its pellets will only break when fired from the gun.

Called "The Neutralizer," it looks similar to a 9mm semiautomatic with a scope.

Marrero said the pepper pellets won't kill. "They won't even really seriously injure someone," he added.

Steven and Michelle Horton, of Dayton, Ohio, also tried the gun Saturday.

The Hortons were in Cincinnati so Steven could take the police exam for Madeira, while Michelle used her time to shop.

Steven Horton works as a police officer in Russells Point, about 70 miles north of Dayton.

He said he liked the gun because it was safe to have in the home and easy to use.

"You don't want something that your children might get and can hurt themselves with, and you don't want something that can be used to hurt you."

__________


Speaking for myself, I'll stick to the real thing... :fire:

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NewShooter78
September 14, 2003, 11:41 AM
:rolleyes: Making guns safe for bliss-ninnies everywhere.:barf:

longtom4570
September 14, 2003, 11:50 AM
Maybe you could use it to season the meat and such on the bar-b-q:rolleyes: oh wait wrong pepper:evil:

Teufelhunden
September 14, 2003, 12:01 PM
"...and you don't want something that can be used to hurt you."

Following this logic, empty your house of all cooking and eating utensils, get rid of just about every tool you have in the house (even those micro screwdrivers!), lose all the heavy furniture, and lock your self in a round empty room--no wait, keys can be used to hurt you too...have someone else lock you in a round room.

I've despaired of the masses ever coming to the logical conclusion that bad people hurt good people because they want to, not simply because they may have the tools available to do so.

-Teuf

blades67
September 14, 2003, 12:11 PM
I wonder how much a jury will award the pepperball gun owner's family after one of these blissninnies gets killed by a hyped-up perp who isn't stopped by a few pepperballs.:rolleyes:

NIGHTWATCH
September 14, 2003, 12:15 PM
I would save the "Cajun" for those nasty criiters. :rolleyes:

Im telling you, if we keep engaging the enemy on the grounds of crime prevention and not an effective civilian means to resist government tyranny, we lose. :banghead:

ReadyontheRight
September 14, 2003, 12:24 PM
"...pointing a gun at a burglar could backfire."

Yeah -- It's safest to just drop your gun and whimper.:rolleyes:

Abenaki
September 14, 2003, 12:29 PM
"It would be wise to shoot to stop, rather than shoot to kill," he said. "You never know someone's intent and if they're breaking in to steal something that's different than if it's somebody who wants to do harm."

I aint gonna take the time to ask!!!!!!

Abenaki

MagKnightX
September 14, 2003, 12:42 PM
I think I'll stick with my P99, thankeeveramuch

WheelMan
September 14, 2003, 12:50 PM
"...pointing a gun at a burglar could backfire."

I think if you look at this as a variation on Pepper Spray, as opposed to a variation on a firearm it makes more sense, but there's still the problem of what happens when you pull out a pepper gun that looks like a real one which escalates the situation and causes Mr. Criminal to shoot you with lead while you're popping pepper into him.

Another thing, I was involved in an incident were a pepper spray was used in a small apartment and it was almost as unpleasant for everybody else as the guy, seems to me if you create a billowing cloud of pepper particles you're going to go down chocking just like the other guy. Unless you have a huge living room.

C.R.Sam
September 14, 2003, 01:15 PM
"It would be wise to shoot to stop, rather than shoot to kill," Yup.
Figure large amount of lead at high speed oughtta stop pretty well.

Sam

itgoesboom
September 14, 2003, 01:21 PM
I have seen police use a similar creation, although their's was a transformed paintball gun. The use them occasionally during large protests, since they can single out who needs to be peppered and it gives them a little more range.

At one protest i saw the police utilize it in addition to their regular sprays, and honestly, i was more impressed with the sprays. While the pepper shots seems to stop the individual protester (after mulitiple shots i should add) the spray dispersed the crowd much more rapidly. Ofcourse, the police also had their service arms, as well as shotguns (not to mention the secret service on the buildings with rifles) in case the pepper balls failed. I think the pepper ball design is a good one for dealing with protesters and rioters, when used in conjunction with other tactis and weapons.

In your own home i think its a pretty bad idea. I wouldn't trust that to stop someone hyped up on crack cocaine or PCP or anything else for that matter. That might just stop someone who smoked a little dope and has the munchies, but it wouldn't stop a depraved madman from killing you and your family or raping your wife or daughter.

For that reason i think i will stick to my 12ga loaded with 00 buck.

I.G.B.

Brian Dale
September 14, 2003, 01:42 PM
That might just stop someone who smoked a little dope and has the munchies,
"Hey man, that was cool. Got any in Sour Cream & Onion flavor to go with it?"

This doesn't sound like the kind of thing for a person who's being attacked to use. Cops with backup for crowd control? It probably has good applications. Personal defense for a private citizen doesn't strike me as a good application. If you ever have to defend yourself, it makes sense to be able to win.

One of the Wise Elders around here had a sig that went something like,
"You don't shoot to kill. You shoot in order to stay alive."
Good advice.

makarov1
September 14, 2003, 02:28 PM
I wonder if these assorted blissninnies have ever heard the old saying, "Don't bring a knife to a gun fight?" Well that should be updated and modernized to include, knives, chinese throwing stars, baseball bats, bows and arrows, cattle prods, pepper spray and pepper guns.

I supose that if the blissninny homeowner conducts an interview with the felon (I'm assuming here that a hot burglary is a felony) and discovers the felon's TRUE intentions, that the felon in question is merely breaking in to steal small valuables such as jewelry. Once the felon's real intentions have been revealed, the blissninny can then take appropriate action.

It is obvious from the blissninny's thought process that he/she lives in a world that doesn't exist.

toro
September 14, 2003, 02:50 PM
The article said Abe Caldwell test-fired the weapon. A gun owner in his 50s, Caldwell said the Pepper spray weapon was something he would use in the event of a home invasion. "It would be wise to shoot to stop, rather than shoot to kill," he said. "You never know soneone's intent and if they're breaking in to steal something that's different than if it's somebody who wants to do harm." {I have one question. If you don't know the intent you better be able to stop the criminal who has broken in your home. I'll take my .45 any day if someone breaks in.}

Mrs. Toro


_____________________________________
John 8:12
Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

4v50 Gary
September 14, 2003, 02:52 PM
I'd rather have my "Spetsnaz" knife - you know, the one where the blade shoots out from the handle. Not as good as that Chinese fighting knife that shoots 4 22 caliber bullets though.

C.R.Sam
September 14, 2003, 03:05 PM
Wonder what the survival odds are for someone who takes a pepper ball in open mouth...while inhaling.

"Non lethal" doesn't even apply to marshmallows.

Sam

JohnKSa
September 14, 2003, 03:39 PM
So, what do these people (bent on non-violence) do when the guy recovers from the pepper ball hit before the police arrive?

Who gets sued when one of these pepper balls that "can't even seriously injure someone" knocks out someone's eye?

A lot of non-thought going on here...

mussi
September 14, 2003, 04:18 PM
A frying pan is a deadly weapon. We had a case in the rural part of the canton of Berne where a surprised housewife hit a burglar with one.

Paramedics show up and can only note that the perp bit the dust very rapidly. Else, they use shotguns out there to very good effect - one #8 buck load usually changes your sex life permanently when correctly used in the defense of a home invasion. :D

Moparmike
September 14, 2003, 04:39 PM
Originally posted by CR sam:"It would be wise to shoot to stop, rather than shoot to kill," Yup.
Figure large amount of lead at high speed oughtta stop pretty well.

SamDang it Sam, you took my idea.

I still want my wrist gun from Moonraker. Poison darts, exploding darts, knockout darts, ex-lax darts, aphrodesiac darts...:D

Of course, if I could have that I would still take my Giant Remote On Life™ (patent pending) with the Mute Button of Silence™:D :cool: .

feedthehogs
September 14, 2003, 04:56 PM
Whats next in the non-lethal line, the Stay-Puff gun?

Will shoot both large and small marshmellows

Zundfolge
September 14, 2003, 04:59 PM
I'm going to take a different position on this ... I think this thing is great and will bring more people to our side.

This weekend at Larry Ashcraft's place for the THR Colorado get together, Justin and I both stepped up to the line with our Makarovs and it took us each quite a few shots to knock down the poppers (even though the wind easily took one down). Now I feel as though I really need a more powerful CCW gun then my Mak.

Applying this experience to these less-then-lethal devices, I think many people will come to realise that they are worthless but will have already become comfortable with the idea of carrying a gun and can then take the next step and get a 9mm :)

Go back to TFL and read Hand Rifle Guy's tests (I think it was him) with the stungun (used on himself) and you'll also see what I mean.

another okie
September 14, 2003, 05:26 PM
I can see that this might have its uses, but home defense is not one of them. The purpose of pepper spray is to allow you to escape. If you're in your own home are you going to run away after you've sprayed the burglar, or stand there and wait for it to wear off?

Standing Wolf
September 14, 2003, 05:31 PM
"You never know someone's intent and if they're breaking in to steal something that's different than if it's somebody who wants to do harm."

I have cigarette butts in ash trays that are worth more than the life of anyone who breaks into my house.

Moparmike
September 14, 2003, 05:59 PM
I have cigarette butts in ash trays that are worth more than the life of anyone who breaks into my house.Here here.

However, you should go apologize to the cigarette butts outside of ashtrays in your home. Insulting those poor little things like that, for shame...:p

greyhound
September 14, 2003, 06:05 PM
Might (and I say MIGHT) have some uses in states like Maryland and New Jersey that don't allow CCW. But two problems I can see right off the bat:

1. The career politicians and the police will never let us have it, as they are just as much anti-self defense as anti-gun.

2. As mentioned, it will be mistaken for a gun, with all that implies regarding both bad guys and the police.

As for home defense, can I get a H*** NO!

Crimper-D
September 14, 2003, 07:35 PM
As seasonings in a Chili Cookoff, let alone for any kind of protection at home or on the street:rolleyes:
I can just imagine a 300lb BG high on crank smacking his lips and growling -
"TASTY!!!":evil: As he tears off your Blissninnie limbs and head:neener: :what:

SoCalGeek
September 14, 2003, 08:33 PM
What would really scare the hell out of me is if these things got really popular, and politicians decided to require that they be used for home defense rather than something that actually works.

Bigjake
September 14, 2003, 08:55 PM
"They won't even really seriously injure someone,"

then.......whats the point??

Henry Bowman
September 15, 2003, 08:48 AM
I'm sure there were many less-stupid quotes that the reporter chose not to include.

Nevertheless, on behalf of the "people of Greater Cincinnati with brains," I appologize for the ignorance displayed by the blissninnys of said location. Hopfully they had to quote the out-of-towners because there weren't enough local idiots to fill 3 column inches.

XLMiguel
September 15, 2003, 09:08 AM
Hmmmm. Just like a 'real' gun, it assumes you can hit what you aim at. Not a good bet for blissninny under stress with no shooting skills.

I'll stick with the real thing. Anyone worth shooting is worth shooting twice:D

Oleg Volk
September 15, 2003, 10:00 AM
"...pointing a gun at a burglar could backfire."

Only if you are using an RPG or a Bazooka indoors.

Daniel T
September 15, 2003, 11:54 AM
At least it may encourage more people to do something to defend themselves. It's better than them just sitting there waiting to be victimized.

cordex
September 15, 2003, 12:30 PM
I think its a great idea.

Use the talcum powder balls for force-on-force training (with the proper protection) and the pepper balls to deter small animals.

Fire a few pepper shots down mole holes, grab your .22 pistol and wait.

Nightfall
September 17, 2003, 05:16 PM
"I kept thinking this is a gun and I could kill someone. But then I realized these pellets - even if they were filled with pepper spray - wouldn't kill anyone."

I honestly can't comprehend those who fret over preserving the life of the murder/rapist/etc.

"You don't want something that your children might get and can hurt themselves with, and you don't want something that can be used to hurt you."

Teach your children respect for firearms, and their safe handling. Try locking your guns up if it's a matter for concern. Oh, and here's a news flash: if your self-defense tool isn't capable of hurting you, then it won't be able to hurt your attacker. Opps, that's right. You're so concerned about the life of that innocent little murder you're trying to fend off that you're throwing balls of pepper at ‘em. Never mind.

:rolleyes:

John/az
September 17, 2003, 05:28 PM
Zundfolge,

Very close to what I was thinking. :D

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