Can anybody identify this rifle?


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nachosgrande
October 22, 2008, 09:21 PM
My buddy just got back from a trip to Israel with his church group and was showing me his pics. We came across this pic of a girl with a rifle and he says that all men and women have to do military service and have a weapon on them at all times. This rifle looks like an old SKS and does not look like a weapon that a government would issue it's military to me. Any ideas?

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MikeKeyW
October 22, 2008, 09:26 PM
It's a US .30 cal M1 Carbine. I read something a while back about the Israelis rechambering them to a more potent round...???

hksw
October 22, 2008, 09:27 PM
Looks like an M1 Carbine to me.

JonB
October 22, 2008, 09:29 PM
That would be my guess too - M1 carbine.

Bartkowski
October 22, 2008, 09:31 PM
I agree, M1 carbine. I didn't know that people have to have a weapon on them at all times. Is that true or just what someone said?

nachosgrande
October 22, 2008, 09:32 PM
The same thing we used in WWII? And by .30 cal do you mean 30-06?

KC0QGL
October 22, 2008, 09:34 PM
Easy M1 got anything harder. Also Israel has a very low crime rate.

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
October 22, 2008, 09:36 PM
no he means .30 caliber carbine
.30-06 is a completely different round, but using a bullet just about the same size

MikeKeyW
October 22, 2008, 09:40 PM
The same thing we used in WWII? And by .30 cal do you mean 30-06?
Not quite, yes WWII but diff gun, M1 Garand and M1 Carbine.:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.30_Carbine
Ruger made a pistol for it:
http://hunting.about.com/od/guns/l/aastruger30bh.htm

esmith
October 22, 2008, 09:42 PM
When he says .30 cal he means the .30 Carbine round. It isn't as large as the 30-06 by quite a bit.

Hoppy590
October 22, 2008, 09:44 PM
The same thing we used in WWII? And by .30 cal do you mean 30-06?

the M1 Garand was in 30-06
the M1 Carbine was in .30 Carbine

the US made millions of M1 Carbines during the war, and then gave them ( along with millions of Garands, Thompson's, and other arms) to our Allied nations. Korea, Italy, Israel, pretty much anyone who needed them

nachosgrande
October 22, 2008, 09:47 PM
I just checked out the wiki on that round, and it looks like a pistol round. So, balistically, they are issued a 60 year old version of a Hi Point 9mm carbine?

SamG.
October 22, 2008, 09:47 PM
M1 Carbine, why I have no idea...

Kman
October 22, 2008, 09:47 PM
the round is a straight walled cartridge, looking a bit like a .22 mag on steroids. It left the field of battle after Vietnam, conflicting reports, not sufficient firepower.

MachIVshooter
October 22, 2008, 09:50 PM
I just checked out the wiki on that round, and it looks like a pistol round. So, balistically, they are issued a 60 year old version of a Hi Point 9mm carbine?

The M1 carbine is a substantially better unit than the Hi-Point, and the .30 Carbine is much more potent than 9x19mm. But it pales in comparison to a .30 caliber battle rifle cartridge like the '06 or .308. .30 carbine has a nasty habit of punching neat little holes in the target with minimal tissue destruction.

Hoppy590
October 22, 2008, 09:50 PM
I just checked out the wiki on that round, and it looks like a pistol round. So, balistically, they are issued a 60 year old version of a Hi Point 9mm carbine?

well its ballistics are closer to .357 mag.

the m1 carbine is not the mainline Israeli rifle. that girl is in a non combat MOS.

certainly as good as any subgun. and best of all ( for the Israelis ) its free courtesy of uncle sam

MikeKeyW
October 22, 2008, 09:52 PM
More potent than the 9x19.
The original PDW:
http://www.personaldefenceweapons.com/_30_Carbine_PDWs/_30_carbine_pdws.htm

nachosgrande
October 22, 2008, 09:57 PM
Thanks everybody. Couldn't figure that one out. I guess my knowledge of military rifles is weak.

MikeKeyW
October 22, 2008, 10:10 PM
We all had to start somewhere. Welcome aboard.

DeathByCactus
October 22, 2008, 10:15 PM
Where was that pic taken? Just out of curiosity...

nachosgrande
October 22, 2008, 10:20 PM
He was in Tel Aviv and Jerusalem, so it's gotta be one of the two. I could ask him tomorrow.

jordan1948
October 22, 2008, 11:00 PM
M1 carbine. Anybody notive there's no magazine in it??

Hoppy590
October 22, 2008, 11:27 PM
M1 carbine. Anybody notive there's no magazine in it??
yes, but this woman wasnt on duty.

if you go to Israel or even Switzerland you will see people in civi cloths sitting at bus stops with (what we call the M249) SAW's or M16's just going on with their day

they are required to have their weapons on them, though they are not on duty

i mean, this is a possible sight in Israel ( god bless them)

http://2.media.collegehumor.com/collegehumor/ch6/c/e/collegehumor.9f9c27bc1fe58b4c61ae492ee1cfb150.jpg

Nugilum
October 22, 2008, 11:53 PM
:scrutiny:^:uhoh:^:eek:^:barf:^:what:

MachIVshooter
October 23, 2008, 12:00 AM
i mean, this is a possible sight in Israel ( god bless them)

Thank goodness there is a weapon to partially distract one from a rather offensive image!:eek:

Hoppy590
October 23, 2008, 01:16 AM
oh com'on

you only wish you could do that in the USA. your be arrested as a nut job in 30 seconds.

its obviously some kind of prank/joke or play

Marcus L.
October 23, 2008, 01:43 AM
http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/4373/762x33556x4568x43762x39ba1.th.jpg (http://img291.imageshack.us/my.php?image=762x33556x4568x43762x39ba1.jpg)http://img291.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif (http://g.imageshack.us/thpix.php)
From left to right:
.30 Carbine, 5.56 NATO, 6.8 SPC, 7.62x39, 7.62x45, 7x46, 6.5x47, 7.62 NATO, .30-06

The .30 Caliber carbine cartridge launches a 110gr 7.62mm bullet at almost 2000fps. It's kinda weak in FMJ form, but pretty effective with using good soft points. It has a wound profile similar to that of a .357magnum only with a little deeper penetration and temporary cavity stretch when using soft points. When using FMJ it has similar effects to 7.62x39mm up to about 100m, but not as effective as the Russian cartridge at ranges beyond that. It really would be an ideal PDW caliber if a modern platform could be designed for it. The Israelis did think about that and designed the IMI Magal:

http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/2096/imimagalic1.th.jpg (http://img207.imageshack.us/my.php?image=imimagalic1.jpg)http://img207.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif (http://g.imageshack.us/thpix.php)

It was derived from the Micro Galil, however it had overheating problems just like the 5.56 version and they didn't design the gas system to reliably cycle the less powerful .30 cal cartridges during the Palestinian riots of 1999/2000. So, they stopped production of the Micro Galils and the Magal in favor of the new Tavor rifle. Most of the rifle was made of polymer which acts as an insulator and traps heat inside the rifle causing rapid temperature buildup. Rifles build up a LOT of heat especially during fire fights. The H&K's G36 suffered similar problems with their G36 rifle in the Bosnian war.......however, I don't think they really addressed the problem. The Magal probably would have worked quite well for them if they designed a platform around the .30 Carbine, used aluminum for the upper receiver assembly, and produced a new magazine design. At least IMI learned its lesson from using so much polymer and cut back in its usage in the Tavor.

GarandOwner
October 23, 2008, 01:51 AM
This rifle looks like an old SKS and does not look like a weapon that a government would issue it's military to me. Any ideas?
I just checked out the wiki on that round, and it looks like a pistol round. So, balistically, they are issued a 60 year old version of a Hi Point 9mm carbine?


I......I should hit you.......you do NOT talk about the carbine that way!

Nugilum
October 23, 2008, 02:14 AM
GarandOwner, forgive him... nachosgrande knows not what he saith.

:neener:

wcwhitey
October 23, 2008, 08:30 AM
I have seen many pictures of students, groups of them with an M1 Carbine slung in the same manner over the years. Notice her pants are fatigues, she has probably served or was in the reserves. The Israelis love the M1 Carbine from what I am told. IMI (Israei Military Industries) have made a good copy for years. Bill

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
October 23, 2008, 10:28 AM
So, balistically, they are issued a 60 year old version of a Hi Point 9mm carbine?

Well, yes and no:

1. It's significantly more powerful than 9mm, on a par with .357 mag or a tad more, which generates a lot more muzzle velocity from a rifle barrel.

2. Being 60 years old and a milspec, that means it's made much better than guns of today, made to endure many tens of thousands of rounds and keep on reliably trucking.

3. Being "not a Hi-point", it's made much better than, well, Hi-points. Steel and wood.

4. Double-stack 30 round mags, not single 10s.

5. Far far better fully adjustable sights.

6. Takes a bayo (if you have one so equipped)

7. I believe it's gonna be much easier to clean and take down.

So mostly NO! :p

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