30.-06.


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antiliberal454
October 23, 2008, 07:33 PM
Hi guys, i just bought the new Savage model 11 BTH with thumbhole stock. I got it in 30-06.. Could anyone tell me if its a good gun with the accu-trigger and all of that. It looks amazing, and i have heard that savages are great guns. Let me know what you guys think, it should arrive tommrow. thanks:neener::neener::barf:

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Vicious-Peanut
October 23, 2008, 07:44 PM
Put simply?




Yes. :D

oregonhunter
October 23, 2008, 07:46 PM
not a savage fan but you picked a great caliber.

browningguy
October 23, 2008, 08:48 PM
Personally I love the Accutrigger, feels just like a two stage match trigger to me.I shoot a 12 FV in .243 for paper punching and it works fine.

USSR
October 26, 2008, 06:00 PM
Savage makes some of the best guns in the world. They are used in some of the top shooting competitions and they are often the guns the winners choose.

Perhaps, in a parallel universe.;)

Don

oregonhunter
October 27, 2008, 04:14 AM
^ x2

foghornl
October 27, 2008, 08:34 AM
Savage makes very good rifles at a far-less-than-premium price point.

That rifle will do its part if you do yours. I don't own a Savage rifle, but have shot several in vrious calibres...liked them all.

IndianaBoy
October 27, 2008, 07:30 PM
It is a plain and simple fact that Savage found a way to make a rifle with a less expensive manufacturing process, that is MORE accurate than most other sporting rifles. The barrel nut facilitate headspacing consistency. They are great rifles. I wish I owned one! I like my Winchester enough that I haven't made the trade.

qajaq59
October 28, 2008, 03:02 PM
Ok, you have the right rifle. Now start loading for it and it will drop anything from wood chucks to moose.

Tacbandit
October 28, 2008, 03:31 PM
Savage makes great rifles, and especially for the low cost. There are always going to be doubters, and "nay-sayers"...Those who will put down folks that
don't, or won't spend mega-bucks on a rifle just so that they can say "Look
what I just spent a fortune on"...For example, you can buy a "tactical" quality
Savage rifle (.223 or .308) with accu-trigger for under $600.00, where as the other guy will go and spend 4 times that, and he won't have a more accurate rifle...You made a great purchase, anti...Shoot it, enjoy it...:)
P.S. The accu-trigger system is awesome...

Tacbandit
October 28, 2008, 03:41 PM
+1, to ya King...Great rifles...seems to make some folks mad, 'cause a rifle that inexpensive shouldn't shoot that good...Oh well...Hey, I like this one, too...
http://www.gunblast.com/Savage10FP-LE2.htm

JR47
October 28, 2008, 04:23 PM
I own a number of Savage rifles. One in particular, a laminated stock, 110G, was bought in 1985. In .270, I put a Nichols (remember them) scope on it, bore sighted it by looking through the barrel, then the scope, and took it out to shoot. The first three Remington 130 gr. Bronze Point loads were centered in the red bulls-eye at 100 yards, in .85". That same rifle will repeat that today, with the original scope still aboard.

Did I mention that this was done standing?

Perhaps they aren't as good as the guns in the "magazine articles", but I tend to trust what happens in my hands more than what I read. In 1985, that rifle cost me $285.00. Much cheaper than a 700, or a 70. The pair of those that I have in .270 aren't that accurate. :)

antiliberal454
October 28, 2008, 05:45 PM
okay thanks guys and heres a picture of my new gun. haha im sad lol it hasnt come yet, the guy i ordered it from is in a hospital in pennsylvania because he was at some gun show, hes a diabetic though so something must of happened. http://www.savagearms.com/11model_BTHlongaction.htm

Tacbandit
October 28, 2008, 05:51 PM
Sharp...........!!!!!!!!!!!!!

USSR
October 28, 2008, 06:31 PM
Guys I don't post info I can't back up. Read this web page. I can find more if you like.

King G,

And I can provide you with a link to the Flat Earth Society, but that don't mean it's so. I have shot in competition for the past 6 years, and while Savage rifles are a decent shooting rifle out-of-the-box and a good value for the money, the statement "Savage makes some of the best guns in the world. They are used in some of the top shooting competitions and they are often the guns the winners choose" is WAY over the top, and not based on my real life observation, nor in the list of equipment used in the various range reports I receive.

Don

atlanticfire
October 28, 2008, 09:12 PM
Savage makes some of the best guns in the world.
Agreed

Tacbandit
October 28, 2008, 11:46 PM
Quote by USSR:
"And I can provide you with a link to the Flat Earth Society, but that don't mean it's so."



U,
Hey, you don't belong to that group, do you, 'cause they sound a little bit
skeptical too...Just kidding. I respect your opinion, and the fact that you shoot comp...Some shooters really do say those things about Savage. But just because they say that doesn't make it true...Just like others saying it's not true doesn't make it "untrue"...Here's where the rubber meets the road...At the end of the day, and the end of the match, when the guy with the $600-$700 gun gun beats the guy next to him with the $3,000-$4,000 gun, who feels the best? It's happening more and more, and Savage value is catching more and more shooters...Watch and see, Savage is coming to a match near you...:)

USSR
October 29, 2008, 07:25 PM
Attention Savage KoolAid drinkers!!! As I said previously, for an out-of-the-box , low-end rifle, the Savage is a decent shooting rifle and a good value for the money. But, Savage does NOT make "some of the best guns in the world" and they are NOT "used in some of the top shooting competitions and they are often the guns the winners choose". For example, see the match results below from The Original PA 1000 Yard Benchrest Club. Please note, not one Savage made it into the top 20 for group size or score. So, maybe the Savage shooters just had a bad day? Eh, nope. In the 10 relays consisting of anywheres from 6 to 9 shooter per relay, the total number of Savages was ZERO! Why do you suppose this is, when it is so easy to change barrels (the big selling point of Savages) by the shooter? Why aren't these guys unscrewing and screwing in their own barrels and saving all that money they are paying gunsmiths? It's simply the fact that the Savage is a decent entry-level rifle that exhibits decent accuracy right out of the box, but the platform does not lend itself to the extreme level of accuracy that 1,000 yard shooting demands of a rifle. So, enjoy your Savage. But just don't think it's one of the "best guns in the world".

Don

http://ussr.clarityconnect.com/Bodines_Scores.jpg

lefteyedom
October 30, 2008, 04:02 AM
Sorry that you got stuck with a Savage. I will give you $50 to take it off your hands so you won't have to hang you head in shame.
and I will split the shipping with you. it is the least I can do.

JR47
October 30, 2008, 09:34 AM
Not to seem too critical, but I'm willing to bet that NONE of these rifles, or receivers, were "factory" beyond the federally mandated stamp.

Could I also mention that there are other competitions than the Pa. 1000 yard competition? I'm sure that a 1000 yard Kool-Aid drinker thinks that his match is the only one, but it's just not true.

Maybe membership in the Flat Earth Society is necessary to believe that this is the only competition?

Perhaps it's also in an alternate universe?

OK, have I returned all of the silly comments properly? See, it works on both sides of the discussion.

Somebody droned on about unscrewing barrels and saving money on gunsmiths, but that's specious, too. It's not like the eight Remington actions were untouched by a gunsmith. That would be an embarrassing joke if that were attempted. The entire idea of the barrel nut is to allow proper head-spacing to be set at minimums, something that other production guns all too rarely enjoy.

Before anyone says that something isn't used in competition, please define what you're considering as competition. You won't find many 426 Hemis in Formula one, but you will in drag racing.

If the best that can be done is to rant on about competition, this thread is deader than the proverbial door-nail.

The OP asked about what he'd bought. It will be a fine rifle. The 7.62x63 is also a good cartridge, and more versatile than the 7.62x51 for hunting a wider variety of big game. Enjoy. If you're planning on entering a 1000 yard competition in Pennsylvania, I'm sure that USSR will be around to help. :)

Tacbandit
October 30, 2008, 03:21 PM
Well said, JR 47...Also, of this too, be sure...Upper Yankeeville isn't the only place shooting comps are held...Yeh, yeh...whatever...There's always someone who wants to rain on someones parade. I'm not against spending whatever amount of money you desire on your rifle...Just realize that some folks have discovered a way to shoot extremely well and competitively without spending a fortune...I'm not impressed with all the hype of a multi thousand $ rifle, unless you're shooting something provided to you by a sponsor, wearing their provided gear, and shooting totally at their expense, and winning a "LARGE" % of your matches...outside of that, you're just like all the rest of us, except
that you're spending more money than some of us...:barf:
Antiliberal454...Enjoy your rifle...........:)

antiliberal454
November 11, 2008, 11:23 AM
I just shot the rifle saturday, it finaly came in on wendsday of last week and i shot it two days ago on sunday, its not all sighted in yet. it is a great looking rifle and it doesnt kick to much, the accu-trigger is amazing! haha i dont know if i could ever live without it, i want a reloading press to reload loads for it and other guns now

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
November 11, 2008, 04:59 PM
I don't know the truth, but to strictly evaluate the truth value of this statemement offered by USSR:

[Savages] are NOT "used in some of the top shooting competitions and they are often the guns the winners choose".

For that allegation to be accurate, one MUST believe one of the following three things about this information posted at the Savage website, linked to above:

2006 Results

Canadian International Fullbore Championships, Chilliwack, BC.

Wiswell Trophy - Stan Pate
Vern Barkley Gold Medal - Stan Pate
Past Presidents Gold medal - Stan Pate
BCRA Grand Aggregate Iron Cross - Stan Pate
Silver Team Match (2nd Place) - Darrell Buell, Stan Pate, John Weil, Wayne Douma.
U.S. F-Class Nationals Silver medals team match - four (4) for shooting and one (1) for coaching
U.S. F-Class Nationals Participation Bronze medals - Wayne Douma and Stan Pate

Medford Match, Medford, Oregon 1st Place - Darrell Buell

2007 Results:

National Champion (Fullbore Nationals) - Darrell Buell
Third Place (Fullbore Nationals) - Monte Milanuk
Second Place F-Class Nationals - Monte Milanuk
Third Place F-Class Nationals - Darrell Buell
First Place Canadian-American "Super-Agg" Trophy - John Weil
Wiswell Trophy (BC Championships) - Monte Milanuk
Gold Medal Blair Atholl (Scotland) 900 yard match - Darrell Buell
Bronze Medal Blair Atholl grand aggregate - Darrell Buell
Bronze Medal Tullamore (Irish Challenge Match) - Darrell Buell
Gold Medal Blair Adam (Scotland) Grand Agg. - Darrell Buell
Second Place Sacramento "Can-Am" match - John Weil
2006 Wiswell Trophy winner - Stan Pate
First Ever PNW Championships Savage Trophy - Darrell Buell

(1) That it's either completely fraudulent, or (2) None of these competitions are a "TOP" competitions, or (3) that the winners in bold above do not constitute being "often" the winner.

I would simply like to know from USSR which one of those he believes that it is - #1 - that's it's made-up/fraudulent, or #2 - that those are not "top" competitions, or #3 - that these winners don't constitute being "often" the winners. I'm assuming you agree that if you get a gold, silver, or bronze, you are "a winner" (one of them) if not "the" winner. A simple 1, 2, or 3 answer is sufficient initially.

Again, I have no idea and think that USSR is probably right (probably #3 or possibly both #2 and #3) - just trying to get to the bottom of this through meticuous examination, from which neither side can weasal. :p

elmerfudd
November 11, 2008, 05:27 PM
My gut tells me that Savage has the cash to buy world class talent for it's shooting team and that the out of the box rifles they are shooting aren't at all typical. I would be extremely surprised if the rifles used by Team Savage weren't carefully selected as being the best of the best and I would be equally surprised if they weren't tuned by someone prior to competition.

Common sense should tell you that no production gun is going to be in the same class as a rifle that's custom fitted and tuned, using the best parts available, by a world class gunsmith. That doesn't mean that the Savage isn't a fantastic rifle, just that it doesn't cut the mustard when it's compared to an all out competition gun. Those are the kinds of rifles that shoot 1/4 MOA groups or less and their owners spare no expense to make them that way. Now ask yourself, how is a production Savage going to match that?

JR47
November 12, 2008, 11:09 AM
Look at a Savage catalog about F Class Rifles.

Yes, I'm as certain that the Savage rifles have been given the exact same treatment as the other brands rifles. That's allowable under the rules. Why anyone would think that the Remington receiver in a world-class competitor's rifle is "factory" is beyond me. Why the Savage should be is ludicrous to even think about.

There are other competitions, though. Each has a limited amount of work that can be done, and varies with the competition.

Do you think that Factory Production class cars are untouched in racing? Or in archery?

Savage is a fairly new competitor, having only recently decided to enter into competition. New parts are rapidly coming onto the market for these rifles. That they CAN compete against rifle manufacturers. whose rifles have been the recipient of decades of custom modifications, says a lot of good things about a new mark in the competition.

USSR
November 12, 2008, 02:50 PM
Lest you guys think that I am strictly a Savage basher, remember, I said: "...the Savage is a decent shooting rifle and a good value for the money". What I was commenting on was a statement that was WAY over the top:

Savage makes some of the best guns in the world. They are used in some of the top shooting competitions and they are often the guns the winners choose.

Anyone who thinks that I am implying that Savage makes crap is wrong. Savage Arms is to be commended for an ongoing program to improve and promote their rifles (something that is sorely lacking with their competitors). In particular, Savage has made great inroads in F Class competition by introducing their Model 12 F/TR line of rifles in 2006. Building a factory rifle with many of the features that one normally has to have a gunsmith install on a factory rifle is just plain smart from a commercial viewpoint. I believe they are also providing factory support to certain individuals who agree to use their rifles in competition, and again, this is a smart move. But again, back to the original quote that "Savage makes the best guns in the world", I stand by my statement that they do not. And regarding the statement that "They are used in some of the top shooting competitions and they are often the guns the winners choose", while you can say that Savage's F Class rifles useage makes "used in some of the top shooting competitions and they are often the guns the winners choose" a true statement, it pretty much ignores the lack of useage of this rifle platform in all the many other forms of rifle competition. Will this change? It's doubtful. The reasons are many. For one, there are very few top gunsmiths that will work on these rifles. I'm talking about guys like George Gardner and Terry Cross. Bedding a Savage is done differently than a Remchester. Another reason is the platform itself. While the way a Savage is constructed makes for an excellent out-of-the-box rifle, it does not lend itself to gunsmithing tricks to take it to a "higher-level". While the Accutrigger is an improvement, the way the Savage trigger works is a joke, what with it's many moving parts. So, my advice to anyone who buys a Savage is to shoot it and enjoy it; just don't put alot of money into it, as the resale value of a Savage with "improvements" done to it will not be there.

Don

JR47
November 12, 2008, 05:28 PM
While the Accutrigger is an improvement, the way the Savage trigger works is a joke, what with it's many moving parts.

The Savage Accu-trigger was such a "joke" that it forced every other manufacturer to change the triggers that they were releasing to the public. I'm sure that the rest of the manufacturers were laughing heartily as they scrambled to play catch-up.

So, my advice to anyone who buys a Savage is to shoot it and enjoy it; just don't put alot of money into it, as the resale value of a Savage with "improvements" done to it will not be there.

Well, how nice. I'm sure that the men and women who started using the AR platform in High-Power competition years ago should have used that advice, right?

Remington rifles, and Winchester rifles were the only American rifles in competition for decades, simply because there wasn't a source of aftermarket parts for others. Today, the champions have access to many other competition oriented receivers. In the top levels, neither Remington nor Winchester represent anything but a name stamped into a remaining part of a receiver.

Savage rifles are today becoming the recipient of new parts, designed to make them ever more competitive. It's happening, look at Brownell's or Midway.

The advice to just shoot them as is applies to ALL commercial rifles. Modifying any one of them will never return the investment when they are sold. Try selling your used Remchester "prize-winner" for anywhere near the money invested, and you'll see the value of the advice. Only not for just Savage.

Quit while you're at this point.:)

elmerfudd
November 12, 2008, 11:34 PM
Yes, I'm as certain that the Savage rifles have been given the exact same treatment as the other brands rifles. That's allowable under the rules. Why anyone would think that the Remington receiver in a world-class competitor's rifle is "factory" is beyond me. Why the Savage should be is ludicrous to even think about.

It probably has something to do with the very first sentence from the Team Savage page, "When Team Savage shooters arrived at their first 1000-yard shooting competition with factory Savage rifles in 2006, they had to bear a lot of snickers from fellow competitors." If that doesn't imply that they use stock guns I don't know what does. Well, maybe this, (the second sentence), "As it turns out, the joke has been on those shooting custom rifles costing thousands of dollars more."

http://www.savagearms.com/BreakingNews052208.htm

USSR
November 13, 2008, 08:01 AM
The advice to just shoot them as is applies to ALL commercial rifles. Modifying any one of them will never return the investment when they are sold.

Sorry, JR47, but the top gunsmiths in the country make a REAL good living off of modifying commercial rifles (see link below), and the resale value of such a rifle with a low round count is quite high. As I stated previously, the Savage action does not lend itself readily to such modification for extreme accuracy and durability, and is rarely seen at this end of the spectrum.

http://www.policeone.com/police-products/firearms/articles/1198280-GA-Precision-Rifles-Unparalleled-Accuracy-Unmatched-Quality/

The Savage Accu-trigger was such a "joke" that it forced every other manufacturer to change the triggers that they were releasing to the public.

Sorry, but in the "top shooting competitions" that we are talking about, factory triggers are seldom used. Arnold Jewell's triggers are often in "the guns the winners choose", and not the Accu-trigger. I just don't understand why Savage koolaid drinkers are driven to think they have one of "the best guns in the world", and are not just content with having a good shooting rifle for a cheap price?:confused:

Don

JR47
November 13, 2008, 01:30 PM
Sorry, but in the "top shooting competitions" that we are talking about, factory triggers are seldom used. Arnold Jewell's triggers are often in "the guns the winners choose", and not the Accu-trigger. I just don't understand why Savage koolaid drinkers are driven to think they have one of "the best guns in the world", and are not just content with having a good shooting rifle for a cheap price?

Sorry, but it's YOU who jump between "factory rifles" and full-on competition rifles. You've done this apples to oranges comparison since this started.

Sorry, JR47, but the top gunsmiths in the country make a REAL good living off of modifying commercial rifles (see link below), and the resale value of such a rifle with a low round count is quite high. As I stated previously, the Savage action does not lend itself readily to such modification for extreme accuracy and durability, and is rarely seen at this end of the spectrum.

Really? You certainly won't prove it with the link provided. Again, this isn't a world-class competition rifle that you show there. I doubt that there are more than 5,000 "custom" rifles like that built in a year actually used in LEO, or competition. Let's try to actually show something about which you speak. The link provides no prices, no example of resale, nor even any affiliation with Police issue, much less resale value. Try a little harder, and provide some actual proof of your claims.

Are you aware of the Shooting Times article this month where Reid Coffield builds a Savage Rifle for accuracy in a week-end?

As for the trigger issue, how can you actually claim that a totally reworked receiver, with a different bolt, trigger, barrel, safety, and even metal and stock, is a Remington? Or a Winchester? Talk about Kool-Aid.:banghead:

Rshooter
November 13, 2008, 02:00 PM
Guy makes a remark about Savage rifle and gets savaged by critics. :cuss:

Is this THR or another board? Maybe someone who has spent a lot of money on a custom rifle and was beat out is annoyed?! Settle down people.

Art Eatman
November 13, 2008, 02:32 PM
Y'know how when you're driving down the highway and you see a really nice buck in an adjoining pasture, your trigger finger gets sorta itchy?

Well, when I see a bunch of off-topic snark in a thread, my delete-key finger gets the same itch. Just imagine: All those pearls of emotional, cranky, ornery wisdom magically go "Poof!"

Has been known to happen...

antiliberal454
November 13, 2008, 06:07 PM
i agree. lol i started this topic to discusss the .30-.06 and savage rifles. Then it somehow manages to have people get into an argument over guns. I mean who cares really, If it goes Bang it makes me happy!! haha

USSR
November 14, 2008, 07:46 AM
This was the class of shooting that I was thinking about when I made my comments. There is such a thing as a production class.

K_G,

There is no production class in F Class competition. There are but two classes: TR (Target Rifle) Class, which is restricted to rifles chambered in either .223 or .308 and which must use a bipod; and Open Class, which is rifles in all other chamberings and can use a mechanical rest. The lack of rules/restrictions makes this an interesting and up-and-coming competition. You see guys on the range with everything from their deer rifle, to tricked out F Class dedicated rigs. Once you've shot at 1k, you're hooked.

Don

lefteyedom
November 19, 2008, 01:47 AM
No Milk and Cookies till you folks kiss and make up!

Here is a wrench in your gears Finns have somehow managed to build target grade rifles out of Mosin-Nagant.
Shoot what you got and Enjoy LIFE

DBuell
December 2, 2008, 01:36 PM
My gut tells me that Savage has the cash to buy world class talent for it's shooting team and that the out of the box rifles they are shooting aren't at all typical. I would be extremely surprised if the rifles used by Team Savage weren't carefully selected as being the best of the best and I would be equally surprised if they weren't tuned by someone prior to competition.

Actually, you'd be mistaken here. The rifles the team uses are typically grabbed off the production line as they come off. They usually have sequential serial numbers. Having been through the factory in some depth, I suppose it's possible that some mystery "premium" parts were substituted along the assembly process... but damned unlikely :-)

No, as with most things, the simplest explanation is the most accurate. Team Savage uses bone stock rifles. The only "tuning" involved is the tuning of our ammunition to precisely what the rifle wants to shoot. The combination makes for some ridiculously accurate rifles that cost 1/3 or less what a "custom" will run.

One of the Team guys is tinkering with bedding the rifles, but I wouldn't run a bedded rifle in competition (long-range F-Class or Tactical) unless I absolutely had to. I've been at matches where the guys with bedded receivers got badly bit by them (in Scotland in the POURING down rain, as well as the "moist" northwest)!

For the record, the list of "lauds" on the Savage site is about a year out of date.

Add to it:
1200 yard National F-Class Champion 2008 (F-T/R)
3rd place 2008 F-Class National Championship
1st place 2008 1000 yd stages, F-Class National Championship
1st place Canadian F-Class Championships (BC)
1st place Pacific Northwest International F-Class Championships
1st place Burden Memorial Match
2nd place Canadian-American Matches
etc.
etc.

Pure and simple, the rifles shoot. There are no longer any "snickers" on the line when we show up :-)

Best Regards All,

Darrell Buell

CoRoMo
December 2, 2008, 02:10 PM
Show me the link to the Flat Earth Society.

Ask... and ye shall... you know. (http://www.alaska.net/~clund/e_djublonskopf/Flatearthsociety.htm)

elmerfudd
December 2, 2008, 03:23 PM
I stand corrected. Nice to see someone with that kind of first hand experience here on THR.

SpeedAKL
December 2, 2008, 03:59 PM
You made a good choice. Savage makes excellent rifles for the money, accuracy should be superb. Plus, you can't have gone wrong in choosing .30-06.

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