5.7x28mm for PS90


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X9ballX
October 24, 2008, 01:26 PM
yeah i dont know much about guns.more than most people but less than most people here.i been thinking about buying a PS90 or an ar15. now if i get a ps90 i wanted to know about reloading ammo. i was thinking about custom bullets and such since it seems you can only get hunting rounds for small game like quail or rabits. i wanted to know about the ammo. it dosn't seem to expesnisve. i was wondering about acuracy from someone who has actually handled one and wether or not its worth buying

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gvnwst
October 24, 2008, 01:47 PM
Custom bullets are not needed, as it fres the same bullets as a .223 rem, or any other .22 centerfire (with a few exceptions) It is as simple as any other round to reload, except that the carges are smaller, and smaller differences make bigger problems. meaning, a tenth of a grain of powder can do a lot in a cartridge this small.

Now, given your background with guns, i would suggest a bolt action repeater in .22lr. Cheaper than both a PS90 or a AR, and a better learning tool. if you must have a semi auto, a .22lr AR, then, when you get good, look into the PS90.

jackdanson
October 24, 2008, 02:33 PM
+1 on what gvnwst said. Also, unless you are rolling in money I recommend getting the AR, you can get a very, very nice AR for less than the PS90. An AR is superior at longer ranges and has more "stopping power" at shorter ranges. That being said, the ps90 could theoretically go up in value if kept nice and might be a better "investment".

If you are planning on hunting deer or larger I would recommend not getting either. In that case I would get a .22 (marlin 60) to practice with and a .308 AR to hunt with. I would normally suggest a bolt .308, but you seem to want a semi auto!

X9ballX
October 24, 2008, 02:54 PM
i alreadyhav a 22 to go target shooting with i just wanted to know about its acuracy

Acera
October 24, 2008, 02:58 PM
I would check the legality in your area of hunting birds (quail) with a rifle. Does not strike me as a particularly good idea, use a shotgun.

People regularly shoot 1K yards with a .223, never heard that about the 5.7

atblis
October 24, 2008, 04:34 PM
For about the price of a PS90 you can get

A nice AR and some nice glass (Eotech, Zeiss, Acog, whatever)
or
A nice AR and a 22lr upper for it
or
A nice AR and a Dillon 650 setup for 223
or
Put together an AR with a Krieger barrel and a nice aftermarket trigger
etc.
etc.

Wouldn't be a hard choice for me really.

Girodin
October 24, 2008, 06:27 PM
I have a PS 90 and really like it. That said I agree that if you are only going to own one semi auto rifle then the AR makes more sense. The AR is more economical. For the price of the PS 90 roughly $1500 one can buy an AR and a quality optic such as an eotech. If I bought another PS I would get the railed version and buy an after market optic. I am not a big fan of the factory optic. Doing this means factoring in another $500-$600 for the optic. Now you could have a quality optic on an AR and a suppressor or another upper for the roughly the price of PS 90. PS 90 mags are also fairly expensive, $40-50 a piece. AR mags can be had for a fraction of that.

If it were one or the other I would probably buy the AR an optic and a spikes tactical .22 upper. If you really like the PS 90 then buy one. I have not been disappointed by it and it has run flawlessly, never one problem.

In terms of accuracy I have two thoughts. Let me preface them by saying I have never sat at a bench with my PS 90 and shot groups. Why? because I rarely do that with any of my guns and that certainly is not what a PS 90 is for IMO. That said it strikes me as a fairly accurate gun from the shooting I have done with it.

Thought 1: The PS 90 has a crap trigger. It is a bullpup and all the bullpups I have shot or handled have had crap triggers. This would surely have an effect on the groups one could shoot with it. An out of the box AR is most likely going to have a much better trigger and one can set their AR up with a trigger that is light years ahead of the PS 90's trigger.

Thought 2: The factory optic is going to be more limiting at longer ranges (over 100 yds) than the mechanical accuracy of the gun. You could get a railed top PS 90, which is what I would prefer to have, but now you need to factor in the price of an optic. Having something like an acog on it would probably allow one to shoot it more accurately at longer ranges.

In short the PS 90 probably offers all the accuracy the vast majority of people could put to use from field positions and without a scope. At longer ranges the trigger and the factory optic will make it harder to utilize its accuracy. The AR is probably the more practical purchase but the PS 90 is loads of fun and will garner a lot of attention anywhere you take it.

I don't know your planned use or how much cost factors in for you but I hope the above helps.

Justin
October 24, 2008, 06:31 PM
By all accounts the 5.7mm round is quite flat-shooting, which will make it better for shooting at long distances. I imagine, though, that the light bullet means you'll have to use Kentucky windage if there's a breeze.

Having shot one at fairly close distances, I would expect that the horrendous trigger would likely impede long-distance accuracy.

X9ballX
October 24, 2008, 09:23 PM
i dont realy care about price. so its accurate. do the mags last well and are there any companies that sell better triggers and such.explain what you mean by crap

TIMC
October 24, 2008, 10:16 PM
Get Both, buy an AR for $800 then get an AR-57 upper for $750 and you have both guns for the price of the PS90

jackdanson
October 25, 2008, 01:26 AM
explain what you mean by crap

The trigger is heavy and doesn't break cleanly making it harder to take longer range precision shots. If you are looking for a cool, pricey, short range, blaster, go with the ps90. If you are looking for something practical, longer range, and probably more accurate than you are (or I am) go with the AR. If you are planning on hunting anything bigger than pdogs don't go with either.

Keep in mind the ps90 was designed for short range self defense using rapid fire (full auto).


Get Both, buy an AR for $800 then get an AR-57 upper for $750 and you have both guns for the price of the PS90

Hah good idea, you know if you can use any AR trigger with the ar57 upper?

gvnwst
October 25, 2008, 10:10 AM
Yes, you can. All the lower stays the same.

Girodin
October 25, 2008, 03:04 PM
do the mags last well and are there any companies that sell better triggers and such

I have had no issues with any of the mags I own. I have only had them a few years however. They are all expensive but they are all very reliable.

As to aftermarket triggers. I've never looked into it much. I believe the limitations of a bullpup design are going to prevent it from ever having a match trigger or anything even remotely close to it. As I said earlier every bullpup I have handled or shot has had a heavy trigger that didn't break cleanly. As a side not people say the RFB is to have a good trigger and I am anxious to see if that is true.

explain what you mean by crap

Jackdanson pretty much summed it up. Because I am not real articulate in describing it I would simply recomend that you pull the trigger on each and you will feel what I'm talking about.

If you are planning on hunting anything bigger than pdogs don't go with either.


Many a coyote has gone down to a .223. I personaly prefer my 22-250 but a .223 will certainly do the trick. I believe a well placed 5.7 would be sufficient for a 'yote particularly some of the smaller desert dwelling one's I've encountered.

Get Both, buy an AR for $800 then get an AR-57 upper for $750 and you have both guns for the price of the PS90

Having an upper isn't the same as having PS 90 IMO. I would rather have another upper in a different caliber if I were to go that route but that is just me. A few of things I really like about the PS 90 are specific to it and not the round.

mgregg85
October 25, 2008, 03:45 PM
The way I think of it, the PS90 is more of a boutique/gimmick gun here in the USA. It's high points are it's compact size(which is illegal unless you get the SBR version and pay the tax) and the armor piercing ammunition which you would have to custom load with pulled AP bullets from 5.56x45mm.

And i've heard the five-seven is sensitive to reloaded ammo, not so sure about the PS90.

I'd like to have a PS90(though here in michigan i would have to get the long barreled version) but I'd rather just get an AR-15 and a bunch of accesories for the same price.

TIMC
October 25, 2008, 09:44 PM
Get Both, buy an AR for $800 then get an AR-57 upper for $750 and you have both guns for the price of the PS90

Hah good idea, you know if you can use any AR trigger with the ar57 upper?

Yes you can
AR-57 upper with Bushmaster AR-15 lower and Stag Arms AR-15 lower.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v369/timc/AR57withscopepic1.jpg?t=1224981734
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v369/timc/AR57withA2stock.jpg?t=1224981779

Domino
October 25, 2008, 10:30 PM
Nice TIMC! I take it that that is a hollowed out AR-15 magazine you use to catch the empty brass?

How does it shoot?

TIMC
October 25, 2008, 10:43 PM
She shoots very well, I have been able to place some respectable groups at 100 yards. I think it is much better than a PS-90 but I also think the 5.7x28 round is a little weak for any hunting application.

The mag is hollowed out, cut down and does work well as a brass catcher.

sinistr
October 25, 2008, 10:55 PM
mgreg85. you can use 62grn bullets in the 5.7 round and get the desired results?i don't really know much about reloading but isn't the 5.7 a 28grn projectile?

TIMC
October 25, 2008, 11:23 PM
Everywhere I have looked at reloading data more than 55 grain is not recommended for the 5.7x28.

gvnwst
October 26, 2008, 12:50 AM
It is because the guns chambered for it are blowback, and a heavy bullet could overpressure the action. In a bolt gun, it would be fine with any weight.

X9ballX
October 26, 2008, 12:42 PM
whats the diff between the sbr and the normal sbr means short barrel right

Girodin
October 26, 2008, 02:11 PM
Yes SBR means short barreled rifle. The difference is simply the length of the rifle and the legality of owning each. Any barrel length under 16" is an SBR and requires a $200 tax stamp to legally own. Some states do not allow SBRs period. Typically the SBR PS 90s I have seen have a barrel that is about 6" shorter. They have the same barrel length and look as the P90.

For SBRing a PS 90 there are a few options. Some people get a whole new receiver with a shorter barrel and register that and thus have both options still available. This to me seems like the best option but it is also the most expensive. A new receiver and barrel is not at all inexpensive. You could buy an AR for the price of some that I have seen.

Another option is to buy a shorter barrel and have the PS 90 rebarreled. The last time I checked new barrels were going for $300-400. In addition most people will be paying to have the work done. I have no idea what that would cost. It would seem that one could cut and re-crown the factory barrel but I have never see anyone actually go this route, so maybe there is some issue I am unaware of.

One may well lose velocity by reducing the barrel length 6". I looked for data for each a while ago but was unable to find it. The 5.7 is a marginal round, IMO, and thus I do worry about losing velocity.

I really like the looks of the SBR and it would make a handy quick handling weapon even quicker and handier.

The above is what I gleaned doing some casual research into going the SBR route on my PS90 and should not be taken as scripture.

One can SBR an AR but I know less about that because I have never looked into it. Often the SBRs I've seen are 14.5" ones and the hassle of getting a stamp doesn't seem worth 2" to me personally, although for others in may well be worth it.

CBS220
October 26, 2008, 02:21 PM
That hollowed out mag is awesome!

Throw a can on that thing and it would be the ultimate backyard plinker... no need to pick up brass, the powder cost is negligible, and uses .22 bullets.

mgregg85
October 26, 2008, 03:55 PM
mgreg85. you can use 62grn bullets in the 5.7 round and get the desired results?i don't really know much about reloading but isn't the 5.7 a 28grn projectile?
Everywhere I have looked at reloading data more than 55 grain is not recommended for the 5.7x28.

Yeah it looks like I was misinformed on that. If you could find some M995, you could pull out the 52 grain AP bullets and load them. I couldn't really say if it would be going fast enough out of the 5.7x28 to perform properly though.

Crunker1337
October 26, 2008, 06:56 PM
As far as the AR-57 upper... it's direct impingement, right? Is there a way to convert it to gas-piston operation?

gvnwst
October 26, 2008, 07:02 PM
As far as the AR-57 upper... it's direct impingement, right? Is there a way to convert it to gas-piston operation?


It is blowback, not a gas operated. Most pistol cal ARs are.

jackdanson
October 26, 2008, 08:08 PM
Many a coyote has gone down to a .223.

True, I remembered that after posting. I was just trying to convey that neither rifle is an ideal hunting arm in it's default configuration, although I'm sure a stock AR would work fine for varmint control.

AlgernonBT
February 7, 2009, 02:47 AM
Hi Tim:
Ran across some of your post's at THR, I just got an AR57 upper and had a question or two if you don't mind.
The bolt catch on my stock AR15 lower does not seem to work, or at least wont hold back the AR57 bolt
I tried 2 different lowers and both have same problem, but both lowers will keep a AR15 bolt in the open position.
Is this a known problem with the AR57 upper? Or am i doing something wrong

Also saw the picture of your AR57 rig, looks good :). I tried putting some optics on my AR57 upper and ran into some
problems with getting the p90 mag to fit. The scope you are using also looks like it has a quick release lever.
can you send info on the model of scope and if it was an extra the model for the quick release.

R

Peter M. Eick
February 7, 2009, 12:13 PM
A couple of comments on the PS90.

It is a very accurate weapon. Off the bench 1" groups are possible if you can manage the canting problem. We found that with my shooting buddies that his was very susceptible to cant and I cant the gun.

Brass is easy to capture with the brass capture bag. Zero loss casings.

Recoil is nothing to speak of.

Aftermarket sights bolt right on.

It is a very handy easy gun to work with.

My buddy bought it after he had 4 AR's, a beretta storm, some blocky 9mm that looks like a mac 10, a 556, a few other "short rifle" type of guns etc. It just rounded out his collection of that type of gun. When we go to the gun show, its fun to walk with him because he can look at some black gun and say "got it" and I know he has one.

Me I went the M1A route and don't see much point in less then 30 caliber for a blaster. Although if I were to buy one, it would be a PS90. Lots of fun and far more interesting to me then some AR.

mr2guru
February 10, 2009, 08:35 PM
I bought a PS90 and am picking it up friday. I am putting a TA47 ACOG on it.

Keeping the 16" barrel as I need all the velocity I can get.

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