3 shots with 7mm mag and still ran 300+ yards


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longdayjake
October 24, 2008, 09:09 PM
For those of you that still think you need a ultra high speed shoulder pounding rifle to hunt deer, I will recount my mornings activities. Last night I was called up by a buddy and asked if I wanted to go with him in the morning to find a deer that his other buddy had shot but could not find before it got dark. So this morning I got up at early-thirty and hiked up in the hills to find this deer. So, the shooter says he shot the buck and it immediately fell down and began kicking and twitching so he shoots it again to make sure it won't get up and run away. The second shot kind of woke it up and it started running away. After it ran about 100 yards he shot it again. The third shot blew its back leg off yet he was still about 200 yards from where the third shot was taken. Here is shot placement.

The first shot hit the deer in the bottom of the ribs but just broke one or two ribs and continued on its path. I imagine this knocked it over and made it gasp for breath while twitching on the ground but it was definately not a kill wound. The second shot was into the belly while he was lying on the ground. This was the mortal wound that caused the bleeding but there was not and exit wound so it bled internally. There was very little blood to track and it took us a good 3 hours to walk the 300 yards of small drops to where it was. The third shot blew off its right back leg and was probably what saved us from doing another 300 to 500 yards of tracking. However, this deer obviously suffered before dying.

I just wanted to tell this story for a couple of reasons.

#1. Practice shooting often if you are going to try and kill something. The kid was one of those that shoot two shots to make sure its on and then hunts with it. Once the hunt is over it goes back in the closet for the year. This is not conducive to a humane kill.

#2. If you can't afford practice ammo for your gun then buy a different caliber that you can.

#3. No matter how fast or how big your cartridge, shot placement still matters.

#4. Don't ask your buddies to help you gut a deer that has been gut shot and then sat all night long. I actually had to go very far away to keep from gaging.

#5. Have fun but don't depend on your rifle to do the killing. That is your job, the rifle is just the tool. He seemed to think that hitting it anywhere with his 7mm mag would blow it up or something. (Gun shop owners saw him coming a mile away.)

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Deer Hunter
October 24, 2008, 09:11 PM
Same scenario has happened to a few guys that have hunted on our lease.

I can't stand it.

Vicious-Peanut
October 24, 2008, 09:20 PM
If you can't shoot well enough to get a quick kill, don't hunt.

Bartkowski
October 24, 2008, 09:26 PM
For those of you that still think you need a ultra high speed shoulder pounding rifle to hunt deer, I will recount my mornings activities.

Sure, you don't need one, but there is nothing wrong with them. The 7mm rem mag isn't hard on the shoulder, and isn't to bad on the wallet. It is also flat shooting which comes in handy.

Please have your buddy learn to shoot...

surjimmy
October 24, 2008, 09:50 PM
I'm a big bore fan, I hunt with a 300wsm. Shot placement is everything no matter what cal. you use. Point... My 11yr old just went on his first hunt, and brought down a 260lb(live weight) buck using an 80gr. power point within 50 yards of the shot. These guys that just fill their scope with hair and start banging away should not be allowed to hunt.

heavyshooter
October 24, 2008, 09:55 PM
There were two factors at play here. Horrible, Horrible, Horrible shot placement and a deer that really wanted to live!!! It did not matter what he was shooting. A scud missile would not have been adequate.

3sixbits
October 24, 2008, 10:01 PM
Sounds like the stories of guys using Remington Bronze points. For the first part of the life of the 7mm Remington mag, only Bronze points was the only factory loads available. They were great for blowing hair off of animals and not doing much in the way of penetration, against bone.

The Deer Hunter
October 24, 2008, 10:06 PM
It did not matter what he was shooting.

Unless he was throwing horse shoes.

Shawnee
October 24, 2008, 10:16 PM
Sounds like a great fellow to not hunt with.

:cool:

.38 Special
October 24, 2008, 10:31 PM
How far away was this fellow when he opened fire?

bejay
October 24, 2008, 10:52 PM
im not sure that target practice would of helped, while shot placement is important it isnt exactly the same as shooting a deer that may or may not of been moving.
glad you pointed out that the second shot didnt have an exit wound it can happen to about any caliber been way to many people posting over certain calibers and stating thet they will go clean through any whitetail when that is not always the case.

longdayjake
October 24, 2008, 10:59 PM
From where he fired the first two times I would have said about 150 yards. Not something that I think anyone would pass up. It was a broadside standing shot. The third shot was at about 100 yards because the deer started running down hill towards them at an angle.

B.D. Turner
October 24, 2008, 11:05 PM
Shooting a deer is like buying real estate "Location, Location, Location"

Ben Shepherd
October 24, 2008, 11:18 PM
Couple questions:

Was it his first hunt? Buck fever maybe?
Is he the type that will have learned his lesson from this?

Reason I ask:

My first deer was somewhat similar, but it ended in less than 2 minutes. Distances between 100 and 150 yards.

Shot 1: Broadside. Competition type shooting kicked in. I watched myself move the cross hairs to center of mass from just behind the front shoulder(the white spot, as Art says) just before the trigger broke. The whole time my mind was screaming NNOO!! But I found out that under stress you do indeed shoot like you train. (This was all split second) Shot hit dead center top-to-bottom 2 inches behind the ribcage.(full stomach, widest spot.)

Shot 2: Broadside again. Just as the trigger broke, he jumped. This shot broke the off fore leg at the elbow.

Shot 3: He was laying down, but had his head up looking right at me. I calmed down and took his neck out.

I cleaned it. Messy as hell. Lesson learned.

MrCleanOK
October 24, 2008, 11:25 PM
For my experiences, "finisher" shots on deer that are already hit aren't a good thing. Your first shot should be good enough to kill, and you need more practice or patience if it isn't. The deer may run for a while, but it will eventually go down and die.

The "finisher" often has the effect of boosting the deer again, but this time it's not bleeding as profusely and will be harder to track.

This harder-to-track phenomonenon also happens to people that want to go look for their deer too soon after the shot. Patience is a virtue, and dead deer don't get up and walk away if you give them enough time to get that way.

freakshow10mm
October 25, 2008, 12:24 AM
I'm a big bore fan, I hunt with a 300wsm.
Hate to bust your bubble, but a .30 caliber anything, even a magnum, is certainly not a big bore. A .375 caliber is a medium bore. A 40 caliber and bigger is a large bore. Unless you are shooting a Jeffrey or Rigby, etc it ain't big bore.

<<< Hunts deer with a 375 Holland.

lefteyedom
October 25, 2008, 12:32 AM
Too much scope to go along with too much rifle?

Wonder what his scope was zoomed to? 8X 9x?

I am believer in carry a scope at its lower magnification, 2X and 3X.

A scope full of fur is not much help in making a clean shot.

surjimmy
October 25, 2008, 01:08 AM
freakshow10mm........ Your right, I should have said larger caliber's. The point I was trying to make is shot placement, also I think I would like to retract my whole post. We were all so ready to jump on this guy(Me big time)with none of us being there. Maybe the deer took a step when he fired causing the gut shot. Look at it this way 3 shots 3 hits, one on a moving target at 100yds away. I am with everyone SHOT PLACEMENT is a must, but lets give him the benefit of the doubt. Remember Mr. Murphy is always along for the ride.

Beagle-zebub
October 25, 2008, 01:14 AM
#4. Don't ask your buddies to help you gut a deer that has been gut shot and then sat all night long. I actually had to go very far away to keep from gaging.

Ew. Ewwww ew ew ew ew. That is some foul stuff right there.


This harder-to-track phenomonenon also happens to people that want to go look for their deer too soon after the shot.

What's the story with waiting before you track? They taught us that in hunter's ed, but didn't explain the reasoning. (I don't hunt deer, so it didn't matter.)

MachIVshooter
October 25, 2008, 03:34 AM
<<< Hunts deer with a 375 Holland

Why?

I don't see a good reason to punish your shoulder and wallet going after bambi with a dangerous game rifle. No deer I've ever shot with my .25-06 has gone further than 20 yards. Neck, spine, shoulder, chest.

ForneyRider
October 25, 2008, 03:43 AM
yep.

Last year, one in our hunting party shot a small doe with 150gr 7mm Magnum and the shot was a little low. Took out one of the lungs but the heart just had a few scrapes. He had a heck of a time dragging the deer out of the East Texas woods. Cleaning it was not fun either. A fist sized exit hole did not prevent the small doe from running 90 yards.

Another weekend last year, my dad shot a East Texas buck with a .22-250 50 gr, first in the hind quarter the second in well made heart/lung area and the deer dropped on the second shot. It never got up and died during the 90 yard walk up to it from his stand.

We have another guy with his Howa 7mm Mag that is a horrible shot. He practices but he can't calm down. He shoots a lot of ammo to get it done. I made him some low recoil loads and that helped some. He also buys the Remington low recoil stuff. Maybe a BAR for him.

Caribou hunting several years ago. I shot one and chased after him. My dad said don't chase, so I stopped. He layed down and it was over pretty quick after that.

DRYHUMOR
October 25, 2008, 06:25 AM
If folks would get a .22 set up as close to their hunting rifle as possible; they could shoot hundreds of cheap rounds at reduced sized deer targets year around.

Every little bit helps.

qajaq59
October 25, 2008, 07:58 AM
Most any caliber will work IF you know where to aim it, and can shoot worth a snit.

Shawnee
October 25, 2008, 09:00 AM
+1 for not going after a wounded deer immediately.

Seems better to let them think all they have to deal with is the wound and not someone on their tail. Seems to give the adrenalin time to subside and it's the adrenalin that is fueling their flight. If they lay-up quickly and have 20 minutes to lose steam it's often their last bed.

:cool:

longdayjake
October 25, 2008, 10:32 AM
What's the story with waiting before you track? They taught us that in hunter's ed, but didn't explain the reasoning. (I don't hunt deer, so it didn't matter.)


Shawnee's answer is pretty good, but I would add that it gives the deer time to bleed out closer to where you shot it. The shorter distance you have to track it, the better chance you have of finding it.

Also, someone asked if it was his first hunt. Nope, the kid has shot countless more animals than I have. According to my buddy that called me up to help this kid find his deer, this guy shoots everything that moves. I think he is one of those that hunts just because he likes to kill. But I try to leave the judging to God and learn from this kids mistakes.

Ben Shepherd
October 25, 2008, 12:36 PM
That's too bad. Some people are just the way they are.

I tell the story I posted above to all the hunter-ed classes I teach, hoping that they can learn from my mistakes, and avoid making the same ones themselves.

But if a vetran hunter is pulling that crap consistently? I honestly wouldn't hunt with them. And I'd have no problem telling them why.

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
October 26, 2008, 06:25 PM
I've only hunted for deer four times, and brought home three.

I NEVER had to shoot twice. I've hunted once per year, so that's four years there, I would have started at age 15, but I never have had to shoot twice.

351 WINCHESTER
October 26, 2008, 07:34 PM
Bullet is probably too heavily constructed for thin skin game.

woof
October 26, 2008, 07:45 PM
This is part of why I think youngsters and novices should start out with enough but not too much gun and one they have practiced with AND with iron sights. The first thing a deer hunter should learn is to hunt, and that means getting close enough to make the shot or not taking it at all. New hunters should be looking for 50 yd shots on standing targets. "Muscle" guns and big glass just encourages the exact opposite.

Rusty_Shackleford
October 26, 2008, 08:37 PM
Make someone hit a buck with paintballs then give them a rifle. Young gwasshoppa, the twaining is compweet.

U.S.SFC_RET
October 26, 2008, 09:00 PM
The young hunter who shot this deer will definitely learn from his mistakes, why? Because eventually they got someone to help them find the deer.
That shows character.
Lessons for THRs to gather from this thread is to mentor before they go out and try to make those shots. We weren't there but acting like armchair quarterbacks.
Mentor the inexperienced to understand that it takes experience before pride when using a magnum caliber. To me a 30-06 is just fine even though I own a 7mm Remington Mag.
Understand that you need to develop the skill of calling your shot. You shouldn't honestly shouldn't make the shot if you aren't sure about calling the shot. We know the results and why, its repeated all through this thread.
Calling your shots means you can tell where that shot goes precisely when you let loose the trigger.

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
October 26, 2008, 09:10 PM
Good reminder and good advice, but this is more about shot placement than practice. Did he have any instruction from a hunting mentor on where to shoot & where the heart and lungs are located, and shooting from different angles? The other part of the equation is, if he did have this instruction, does he care, and did buck fever take over? Another thing is field rest. Yes, we all hate the stories, but it's not range practice that will fix it. It's instruction/mentors and live hunting experience to get rid of the buck fever.

moooose102
October 27, 2008, 08:29 AM
the problem is stated right in the beginning. he only shoots the rifle 2 shots a year, and only to make sure that the scope is still zeroed. i suspect that this "big magnum" scares the cra9 out of him, and he has a bad flinch. so he just yanks the trigger to get it over with. the deal with a magnum, or big bore rifles (really any hunting rifle) is you have to practice with them so you get used to and accustomed to the recoil. if you do not shoot it much, yes, the vast majority of us can develop a flinch. i am pretty accustomed to my rifles (300 win mag and 45/70) enough that when it goes off, the rifle just kind of jumps around in my hands a bit. there is no sense in holding on so tight that your fingers turn white. where is the gun going to go? but anyway, the point that is originally being made is to pick up your rifle and shoot the darned thing. you do not have to go out and shoot 5 boxes a day for 3 months prior to hunting. but we all need to go out and shoot several boxes of shells in the month before season opener. a couple of shots per day will do it. i know this isnt practical for a lot of hunters. with work, and ranges being a distance apart, and all the other stuff that goes on in our lifes. but you do have to go out and shoot. otherwise this is the type of thing that can happen to any of us.

IndianaBoy
October 27, 2008, 07:38 PM
Practice, patience, and respect for the animal are key to hunting in a humane manner.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/gnieman/Lunch_Point.jpg

If I do my part, most of the head comes off when I skin them because the skull has been completely crushed. My last 6 kills have been perfect head shots. Save the meat, it is a challenging hunt, and the animal doesn't feel a thing. That is how I prefer to hunt. I wish headshots on deer were viable. I usually put them in the boiler room. I will take a spine shot in the neck if I am close enough. Knowledge of the animal's anatomy is also key.

Shawnee would you please post that deer cutaway picture you have again?

Thanks.

Shawnee
October 27, 2008, 07:53 PM
Sure...

:cool:


http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y159/FiveO/ad4.jpg

IndianaBoy
October 27, 2008, 07:59 PM
You da man!



(Even if you do like girly rifles. ;)) :neener:

Shawnee
October 27, 2008, 08:02 PM
:what:

That's the first time I've ever heard anyone call the .375 H&H magnum a "girly rifle" !!!


:D

jkingrph
October 27, 2008, 09:33 PM
That's the first time I've ever heard anyone call the .375 H&H magnum a "girly rifle" !!!


That's good. The cartridge may be "girly"( not in my opinion) compared to some others. I would like to see him carry my CZ Safari 375 all day and cally it girly. I'm not sure I want to do that, it would take a better man than I to hump that thing around all day, on foot.

IndianaBoy
October 28, 2008, 12:55 AM
505 Gibbs. ;)

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