1 MOA Mosin?


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gvnwst
October 25, 2008, 10:14 AM
I was talking with a friend lately, and he mentioned that his Mosin nagant groups under 1 inch. Now, i am guilty of not owning a Mosin(:D), but i have heard that they are not THAT accurate. And this is a completly stock Mosin, with bulk pack ammo. Could he be telling the truth?

Thanks for the help.

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pinstripe
October 25, 2008, 10:16 AM
I have 3 mosin nagants and none of mine are that accurate. They shoot good and consistent, but maybe 2-3 moa?

gvnwst
October 25, 2008, 10:19 AM
That's why i am wondering. never heard of a mosin making 1 moa stock...

pinstripe
October 25, 2008, 10:28 AM
I love mine. If I can hit a paper plate at 150yds or farther, then I consider that good.

LTB15J
October 25, 2008, 10:28 AM
you didnt even mention the range this 1 moa grouping is achieved at?

its easily possible. you have to remember some of the deadliest snipers in history used a beater rifle, not some precision made custom tack driver. with the right surroundings, and the condition of the rifle it might seem easier than it is. if a guy can get 542 kills with a finnish nagant using only iron sights at an average distance of 1-400 yd, id say you can get very nice groupings if you try. and of course you are using match grade commercial or handload, not surplus crap ammo

here's a 100yd group with handloads. i am not the shooter but this is just an example of what a nagant can do..

http://www.mosinnagant.net/images/sight-in-9.jpg

(taken from mosinnagant.net)

gvnwst
October 25, 2008, 10:54 AM
100yd was the range. The question here is if a standard mosin with bulk pack/surplus can do this.

wnycollector
October 25, 2008, 11:16 AM
My 1932 91/30 w/ 2x7 scout scope will do 3" groups all day long with hungarian silvertip light ball. I get between 2-2.5" groups w/ wolf gold/privi ammo.

alemonkey
October 25, 2008, 11:24 AM
On a properly bedded example with handloads, sure, I could definitely see it happening. Most will not shoot that well though, especially with surplus ammo.

The Mosin action definitely has potential though. Check out this guy, he's my hero. I'm seriously considering something similar:

http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=29075

LTB15J
October 25, 2008, 11:26 AM
ok, at 100 yd with good ammo and good rifling, a bedded stock with trued action, no problem. but trying to do that with milsurp? leave the surplus for watermelons and bowling pins

the above image was a 100yd grouping using the old school nagant sniper scope and handloaded ammo. i dont believe the stock was even bedded, so you can only imagine what the rifle is capable of with the proper optics and setup.

George S.
October 25, 2008, 01:32 PM
I have a 1931 Izzy 91/30 that will consistently shoot 6"-8" groups off a rest at 200 yards using milsurp ammo, usually the Czech silvertip stuff. From what I have read, that is the group size that was the Soviet Army standard for 91/30's. That's easily "minute of Nazi".

At 100 yards, my 91/30 will shoot 3-4" groups from a standing position. If I shoot from a rest, I can get 2-3" groups at 100 yds. The rifling is decent and it has not been counter-bored and the crown is in excellent shape. Not too bad for a $79 rifle I got at Big 5 :D

tribbles
October 25, 2008, 07:08 PM
Is his Mosin-Nagant Finnish? I could believe that result out of one of the Finnish guns, since they took a bit more care assembling theirs than the Soviets did. Of course, with the millions of Mosins the Soviets had, you'd have to believe that the tolerances stacked up favorably on a few of them.

mgregg85
October 25, 2008, 07:11 PM
A stock mosin with surplus ammo? I doubt it very much. Now if you bedded or at least corked it and used some custom handloads, maybe.

tacweapon
October 25, 2008, 08:58 PM
I was able to get a 1.5 inch three shot group with my M44 rested from 100 yards once before but since then I seem to be getting closer to 2-3moa at 100 yards

hksw
October 25, 2008, 09:16 PM
Huh. It just so happens I bought an Izhevsk 91/30 hex rec today (1926 re-built to 91/30, Ex-Dragoon if I'm researching correctly). Have had an M44 for a few years also.

Just curious, is the barrel on your friend's 91/30 with a SIG or Bohler German barrel? (Don't really know if that would make a diference or not, just curious.)

There really is only one way to be sure if he and his gun are capable of such precision. Ask him to walk his talk (go out to the range and prove it). (Post the results if he's up to it.)

_N4Z_
October 25, 2008, 10:07 PM
I have a couple Mosins that both can shoot 1.5" and less @ 100 yards with the right ammo.

They are both stock Finnish M39's, no optics, no alterations.

The better of the two has shot 5/8" @ 100 yards with my own hand rolled ammunition using Sierra MatchKing bullets.

Best either has done with surplus was in the 2.5 inch range.

Best either has done with store bought ammo was 2 inches, using PRVI Partizan 150gr soft points.


And it should be noted that with ammo they didn't like, I've printed groups as large as 4.5 inches at 100 yards.

Not yet seen a Russian Mosin that can shoot as well as a Mosin from Finland.

garyhan
October 26, 2008, 12:07 AM
My repro PU sniper shoots 1 1/2" consistently with czech silvertip. Finn Mosins had to shoot into 3cm (about 1.2 inches) to be accepted for service. I suspect it would be quite uncommon for a stock 91 or 91/30 to shoot moa with issue ammo, it is by no means impossible.

gary

gvnwst
October 26, 2008, 12:24 AM
it is just a regular old 91/30 i think. he is nowhere close to being a dedicated enough shooter to get reloading equipment, so i know he wasn't using custom ammo.

There really is only one way to be sure if he and his gun are capable of such precision.

Well, i talked to him again, and it wasn't him shooting, but his instructor. Still, no handloads. (this is where i get really suspicious)

TAB
October 26, 2008, 12:26 AM
if he was using nonsurplus ammo, it could have happend, but I doubt it.

rangerruck
October 26, 2008, 01:05 AM
it is possible, especially with the 182, 185, or 205 grainers. mostly likely not possible with standard milsurp, but I wouldn't rule it out. some of the milsurp stuff was made to be pretty accurate, especially the 182 to 185 grainers, which was their sniper load.
It just so happens that I got an unissued, unfired one, all matching numbers.
and after breaking it in, then treating it for 1 week in sweetshooters, 1 week in synthetic car oil, then 1 week with moly oil, followed by a molyfusion job to the bore, mine will do it. but not with the 150 grainers, or 148's, new or milsurp. but it will with the 185's and 205's, whether new mfgr or milsurp.
I did the same above work to a friend of mine , who bought one new, unfired, all matching as well, and his will do it with the 205's.

GD
October 26, 2008, 09:13 AM
I own about 3 dozen mosins from different countries. Out of that group are 7 that shoot under 1.5 MOA.
Finnish M91 VKT,
Finnish M27 Tikka
Finnish M91 Dragoon
Finnish M91/30 Tikka
Finnish M39 VKT
Finnish M39 B barrel
Finnish M28/30

Notice a pattern?

hksw
October 26, 2008, 12:26 PM
Dang. Now I gotta go look for a Finn.

rangerruck
October 26, 2008, 02:56 PM
did the finns ever make a short bbl version , like a m38?

_N4Z_
October 26, 2008, 04:23 PM
There are/were SA marked M38's.

All are ranked 9 on a 1 to 10 rarity scale on 7.62x54r.net website.


Good hunting. ;)

And back to the accuracy topic. It should be noted that while both my M39's are excellent shooters, there are some days (like today...) when they (or the operator) just do not perform as desired.
I'd say they are usually between 1 and 2 moa rifles, with the capability of occasional spectacular sub moa groups, as well as random not so fresh patterns that leave me scratching my head.

Aka Zero
October 26, 2008, 05:41 PM
Maybe it's a "not on tuesdays" thing.....

Well my c&r got here... still looking around for mosins I want. Will probably buy a "new rifle price" worth of mosins at one time, to save on shipping (5 or 6 probably)

lionking
October 26, 2008, 07:40 PM
maybe possible with handloads,maybe possible with a scope,but doubtful with iron sights and brand or surplus ammo


go to the paper plate shoot out up top and you'll see what others and I did with Mosin's and other types to and personally I have other types of milsurps that do better than any of my 4 Mosin's.


Although for a surplus military rifle the Mosin's are not too bad at all considering they are rather crude.

alemonkey
October 26, 2008, 07:51 PM
My Finn M39 is very accurate, much more so than my 91/30. So far my best groups have been around 2.5 inches with iron sights. I've only shot surplus through it though. I need to get some 7.62x54 dies. With handloads I bet 1 MOA will be easy with that gun. If it was made today it would be a $1,000 + rifle, the quality is that good. Interestingly enough, the surplus ammo it seems to like best is that cheap Albanian crap. You just need to sort through it first and throw out all the ones with split necks and holes in the case :eek:

Crazy Fingers
October 26, 2008, 08:38 PM
I doubt very much it's true.

There are lots of (weird) guys who think that if something was military issue it's somehow better.

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