Magnus Bullets - Lube comes off


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RPCVYemen
October 26, 2008, 12:20 AM
I have been using some Magnus 45 LC 255 gr SWC bullets from Natchez Shooters Supplies:

http://www.natchezss.com/Bullets.cfm?contentID=productDetail&prodID=AL901&prodTitle=Magnus%20Rifle%20%26%20Pistol%20Bullets

The bullets come with bands of blue lube in the grooves, but on some of the bullets, the lube falls off during shipping. A friend has suggested that I get some liquid alox, coat the bullets with that, and let them dry. How do I coat the bullets?

Does this make sense?

Mike

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depoloni
October 26, 2008, 02:56 AM
You can try it... haven't done so myself but know it can be done, simply, by putting the bullets and lube in a ziplock bag and "mooshing" them around by hand before setting them on a wax-paper lined tray to dry. Some guys prefer to wipe off the bases (or avoid lubing them) to prevent any possible powder contamination. I think you'll find that tumble-lubing will do a better job of limiting leading than just shooting them naked, but I honestly don't think you'll be as satisfied as with the harder waxy lube on a bullet designed for that type. Generally the tumble-lube-designed bullets perform far better with tumble lube, versus a lube groove type.

A better option, next time around, would be to buy a better product. I'm not talking smack, I did indeed buy some 240gr 44-cal SWCBB Magnus cast bullets from Natchez myself about two years ago when I first got into cast bullet shooting.
Call me a snob, but as you're finding (i presume) they're garbage. You can get a FAR better produced, quality controlled, and hassle-free product from one of any number of better sources.

Offhand, let me recommend the guy I get my bullets from. You will NOT be disappointed and they're probably cheaper to boot!
http://www.dardascastbullets.webs.com

Matt Dardas is a standup guy, and if you do a site search here at THR you'll find that a bunch of people, like me, have dealt with him and as yet not a single complaint.

pinkymingeo
October 26, 2008, 06:21 AM
I use Alox on most of my commercial cast bullets and my leading problems have disappeared. It's well worth the minimal effort. I just put the bullets, about 50 at a time, in a small plastic container and shake them a few seconds. You'll be amazed at how little Alox is required. A tiny amount goes a long, long ways. While lots of guys carefully place the bullets on waxed paper for drying, I just dump them out on a piece of plywood and let them sit a couple of days. Works great.

Remo-99
October 26, 2008, 07:18 AM
I use Alox on most of my commercial cast bullets and my leading problems have disappeared.

That's pretty good advice since the bearing surfaces have no lube on them with most conventionaly lubed bullets (just lube in the lube grooves).
The extra lube coating of the tumble lube, which coats the entire bullet, is most beneficial in helping to reduce leading.
I never bother wiping the bases clean, just ensure the lube is well dried. I never had a problem with powder contamination.
Althrough lee's T/L tend to be still a bit sticky after drying, I think Rooster Jacket brand may well be worth looking at also.

straight-shooter
October 26, 2008, 10:01 AM
Just a heads up on the alox. After loading a couple hundred rounds be sure to check the inside of your seating die. Alox will cause a build up on the seating die thus altering your seating depths. Just use a tooth pick and pick it out and your good to go for another couple hundred rounds.

floydster
October 26, 2008, 10:41 AM
I mostly shoot cast bullets now, I too put about 50 in a Ziploc bag and a little Lee Alox and "nead " the bullets a few seconds, stand them up on wax paper overnite. I have no leading in my CZ's and Elite Match pistols.

And a +1 for Matt Dardas and his bullets, excellent, excellent product all the way around, fast shipping,( you don't have to wait for Bubba to make a "run" on the bullets you want0. and he is fast to answer your E-Mails prompty,
very nice guy.
Dardas bullets will be my supplier from now on.
Floydster:)

RPCVYemen
October 27, 2008, 11:01 AM
A better option, next time around, would be to buy a better product. I'm not talking smack, I did indeed buy some 240gr 44-cal SWCBB Magnus cast bullets from Natchez myself about two years ago when I first got into cast bullet shooting.
Call me a snob, but as you're finding (i presume) they're garbage.

I haven't noticed that - but I am pretty much of a novice.

Offhand, let me recommend the guy I get my bullets from. You will NOT be disappointed and they're probably cheaper to boot!
http://www.dardascastbullets.webs.com

Is the lube less likely to come out of the grooves during shipping?

Mike

depoloni
October 27, 2008, 01:07 PM
I suspect the lube is NOT less likely to come off during shiping with Matt Dardas's bullets.

HOWEVER:
- Less "transit tumbling" since it comes from Dardas to you. Rather than from Magnus, to Natchez (in this case), then eventually back out to you. Less jumbling around in trucks and on inventory carts, so I presume less would indeed come off.
- The lube grooves on Dardas bullets will be filled. Not "most of them mostly filled" with a significant number of bullets having a break in the lube ring circumference - which I believe helps them "unwind" out of the grooves in shipping.
- The nose profiles, edges of the bases, and bases themselves will be FAR superior, on average, compared to Magnus bullets from my experience. This is 100% a casting/attention to detail item during production.

I'm not saying magnus bullets won't work, not at all. I do indeed stand by the statement that if you can get a superior product for the same or less, to your door, why bother with the magnus. I understand that cast bullets do not need to be perfect, and most are practice/plinkers anyhow... but there's no reason to pay more for an inferior product from my point of view at least.

Hope this clarifies, know there are two sides to every story.

depoloni
October 27, 2008, 01:11 PM
Oh... and one side note.

The magnus bullets I recieved had a Brinnell Hardness (BHN) of roughly 14-16 with the testing equipment (lee) I have handy.

Using the same equipment, the Dardas bullets test between 20 and 22, which is harder. They DO take more velocity with less leading for me, and presumably for most folks would in kind.

Matt uses genuinely good alloy, not that I can say Magnus doesn't for sure... but that's one other facet where one is superior over the other in my opinion. Unless you're shooting a ton of cowboy action (I don't) where perhaps the softer lead would be desirable in light, old style loads, for me (44mag, 45acp, 9mm) the harder alloy has always performed better and with less fuss.

Hope this helps! Don't mean to make a "mission" of it, but can't help but talk up a guy in my home state who really knows his casting stuff!

depoloni
October 27, 2008, 01:45 PM
Yeah, not every day you get to triple one. Sorry.

I felt it would be worth mentioning also that I'm constantly learning new things as well. I still have about 50 of the Magnus bullets that had no lube from the 500 I ordered... and am DEFINITELY going to try tumble lubing them and shooting them. Strikes me that it wouldn't work right, and I know this is a "no references" internet site so advice can be dodgy... but if it ain't dangerous and might just work, nothing to lose!

Thanks to the gent(s) who recommended it, wouldn't have thought that.

dardascastbullets
October 28, 2008, 09:03 PM
As Depolini pointed out, our lube does not separate from the bullets during shipment. We also inspect every bullet to ensure that they have 100% filled lube grooves - they are rejected if they are not completely filled. We invest A LOT of time in our inspection process because we want you to receive the very best in cast bullets.

RPCVYemen
October 30, 2008, 11:28 PM
As Depolini pointed out, our lube does not separate from the bullets during shipment.

You talked me into it. :) I just placed an order for 500.

I have been shooting 6.0 gr of Titegroup with the Magnus bullets in my Blackhawk - does the fact that yours are harder make any difference?

Mike

dardascastbullets
November 1, 2008, 07:44 AM
I have been shooting 6.0 gr of Titegroup with the Magnus bullets in my Blackhawk - does the fact that yours are harder make any difference?

Mike

Hi Mike,

I am not sure what you are asking. Can you be more specific?

Matt

RPCVYemen
November 1, 2008, 11:34 PM
I am not sure what you are asking. Can you be more specific?

Should I adjust the amount of powder up or down because your bullets are harder than the Magnus I have been shooting? Or do you use the same load for cast 255 gr SWC bullets, regardless of of how hard the bullet is?

Mike

dardascastbullets
November 2, 2008, 12:07 AM
Hi Mike,

Work up your load to accomplish a comfortable load. Our bullets are our bullets. They are unique to the alloy that we purchase. You will realize great results by using bonafide reloading manuals.

RPCVYemen
November 4, 2008, 12:16 PM
You will realize great results by using bonafide reloading manuals.

Yeah, I have a number of printed reloading manuals (Hornady, Lyman, Hodgdon).

BTW, the bullets I ordered came yesterday, and I can testify that they arrived with lube intact. I haven't loaded them up yet, but I did not find little half rings of lube floating on tip of the bullets - which is what I did find with the Magnus bullets.

Thanks,

Mike

depoloni
November 4, 2008, 07:26 PM
Little bit of an answer within an answer here, please take it for what it's worth.

When it comes to harder vs. softer alloy, and load levels, it's indeed correct to say that each bullet is its own and in each gun too.

In general it does take a heavier charge of powder to cause the base of a harder bullet to obturate and take the shape of the barrel, sealing off gasses. So in some cases in order to eliminate leading you'll have to push a harder bullet a little bit harder.

Sometimes, often even, this is NOT the case because of factors such as... what if the harder bullets are slightly larger or smaller and fit the bore better? Then maybe even a lighter charge than a softer bullet will perform better. Just one example.

Best advice with this, or any other bullet in a given rifle for that matter, is to start at suggested safe/starting load levels and work up to where you're happy safely. That might be by feel, if you don't have a chrono, or you may find you have to work up to a certain level to curtail leading. Or stop at a certain level to curtail leading. All depends.

Hope this helps more than open a ton of new questions.

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