[TheLastBoyScout]

Well, should it?

This sorta came up in my mind as a result of the WOD thread.

I believe it has to drop down, ideally to around 16 (cause by then everyone I know or work with has been drinking at least once anyway), but I'd settle for 18 with a few changes to the underage laws, i.e. make booze like cigarettes : Under 18 can't buy 'em, but its not a crime to use 'em.

*"HARD" in regards to the age limits means the way they are now, underage use, possesion and purchase are all illegal. "SOFT" means only purchase should be illegal.

[Ian]

Should the Drinking Age be Lowered?
No. It should be eliminated. The states (and Feds indirectly) have zero business telling people what they may or may not drink.

[Bruce in West Oz]

We in Australia dropped our drinking age to 18 back in the 70s. H-u-g-e mistake that the government is only just beginning to acknowledge. We now have 15-year-olds binge drinking every weekend. We're just beginning to tighten the laws regarding underage drinking. For example, it is now illegal to give an underage person alcohol even in your own home (which wasn't illegal before).

There is a strong and increasing call for a return to a 21 drinking age, along with tighter restrictions on the types of motor vehicles people between 17 and 25 can own -- e.g. no V8s, engine output limits on a power-to-weight ratio -- the same as we have for motorcycles (for the first year you can only ride a 250cc -- then retake the test to get an "open" licence).

[QuickDraw]

I don't understand the point of lowering the age.
Just because?
What good could come from it?

QuickDraw

[denfoote]

In the 1970's we who were in the "gray age group" 18-21 worked very hard to get the drinking age in Arizona lowered to 19 by referendum of the people. The electorite agreed and the age was lowered. The reasoning was that if you could vote, die for your country, sign legal contracts, or be sentenced as an adult at age 18, then why restrict the drinking age.

This held true until our dear Chairman Klintonov succeded in forcing states to raise their drinking ages to 21 through the usual Federal blackmail of withholding highway funds to states that did not comply. :rolleyes:

Guess which way I voted!! ;)

[Gray Peterson]

We in Australia dropped our drinking age to 18 back in the 70s. H-u-g-e mistake that the government is only just beginning to acknowledge. We now have 15-year-olds binge drinking every weekend. We're just beginning to tighten the laws regarding underage drinking. For example, it is now illegal to give an underage person alcohol even in your own home (which wasn't illegal before).

15 year olds binge drink here in the US, and we have a 21 age limit Bruce.

There is a strong and increasing call for a return to a 21 drinking age, along with tighter restrictions on the types of motor vehicles people between 17 and 25 can own -- e.g. no V8s, engine output limits on a power-to-weight ratio -- the same as we have for motorcycles (for the first year you can only ride a 250cc -- then retake the test to get an "open" licence).

Bruce, no offense, but the justifications for such blantantly "nanny state" laws are along the same lines of the handgun bans there, really.

I vote for 18 SOFT. The age limit is set to 18 for voting and military service. I wish I had the funds and the support to file a lawsuit against the state for the 21 age limit for drinking, but I didn't so now I'm 21.

That being said, if someone wants to persue a lawsuit against 21 age for drinking, you can also make the arguments against 21 age restrictions for licensing for CCW as well as buying a handgun from an FFL, or being denied in Missouri for a concealable firearm acquire permit.

There's multiple ways of getting standing. Unfortunately, there's little case law on age limit challenges.

[Phantom Warrior]

I personally think alcohol has many terrible consequences when abused. My dad works at a treatment center, so I have heard some of his stories of experience with what alcohol can do to a person's life. I also have lots of friends that drink a lot (I don't) and it has caused many of them problems. That said, I don't think it's reallysomething that the government should be sticking their nose into. I would probably vote 18 SOFT, just because I'm not sure about actively condoning drinking at a very young age. The teen age years are really formative and I think drinking should be discouraged until they are a little older. But once you are 18 you should be able to drink, smoke, buy guns (all guns, not just long guns), vote, what have you. I'm sick of this "You're 18 and an adult, but not really until you are 21."

Bruce, I live in Minnesota, United States where the drinking age is 21 and I know 15 years olds that binge drink. *shrug* Legislating doesn't do a lot of good. And frankly, do you want the government that involved in your life? We are up in arms over the idea that guns should be made "less lethal" somehow or that safe-gun technology should be introduced to reduce accidents. How is it different to have the government mandating less powerful cards or restriction on output for safer cars? Dumb drivers will get people hurt whether you restrict their engine power or not. I drive a 1988 2.0L V4 Toyota Camry. It would still be lethal if I decided to run someone down with it. Furthermore, why should I be penalized cuz other idiots can't learn to drive (or handle guns safely or be responsible w/ alcohol or what have you).

I'll be the first to agree that alcohol does cause a lot of problems, when abused. But I'll also be the first to assert that the fact the other people abuse it neither makes it inherently unsafe nor should justify limiting my rights. Bring the hammer down on people for causing problems, but if they aren't harming people why should the government intervene?

This post was rambling, but I hope it makes some sense...

[SkunkApe]

Denfoote, in Ohio the drinking age was raised to 21 under threat of withholding federal highway funds by the Reagan administration. And this after a ballot initiative effort to raise the age failed.

[Gray Peterson]

Congress passed a law. Reagan was obligated to enforce it.

Guess who offered the amendment to force states to raise the age at MADD's urging.

Senator Frank Lautenberg.

I wish I was kidding.

[seeker_two]

I voted "18 HARD", but I wouldn't mind keeping it 21 with one important exception...

If you have an active duty military ID, you can purchase & use alcohol at any age---PERIOD.

I would be for the same rule for firearm ownership too...:D

[Peter Gun]

I voted 18 soft. It doesnt need to be encouraged, but if you're 18 you should have the full rights that allow you to vote.
However, I think the driving age should be 18 as well. I think its insane to allow 16 year old to pilot vehicles w/ their lack of judgement. I think back to 16 and wonder how I survived. I think I was more responsible than most, but I also remember having some big lapses in judgement that I got lucky on.

[El Tejon]

As someone who deals with the eeevil of 19 year old in taverns on a day to day basis, it doesn't matter one golly gosh darn what the "drinking age" is. If people wish to be irresponsible, they will be. Change the culture, not the law.

I think it should be 8. Get that first throne grabber out of their systems early. Of course, the blissninnies would be lobbying to ban Big Wheels and Little Red Wagons! Think of the children.:D

[Ian]

So, Peter Gun, it must horrify you to know that 14-year-olds can get pilot's licenses... ;)

QuickDraw - What good would come from lowering the age limit? A little more freedom would come from it.

Phantom Warrior - I agree that the teenage years are a very important formative part of one's life, and that formation includes learning about alcohol. Banning it from people in that formative period will cause far more harm than good (not to mention the fact that your or my opinion on what people 'ought' to do with their own bodies has no has no place in the law).

[Bruce in West Oz]

Fellas, I just report 'em -- never said I agree with 'em.

Having said that, we DO have a huge problem with underage drinking in Australia. (Shrugs) But I dunno the answer.

[Peter Gun]

Ian- I'd only be concerned about 14yr old w/ pilots licenses if they could fly the plane to their high school or if the test was as much of a joke as the drivers tests are here.
Even so, If I had a pilots license at 16 I'm sure I would do some things I wouldn't at 18.

[jsalcedo]

Since when do laws stop the misuse of anything?

Its the responsibility of the family to monitor their kids and teach them
right from wrong.

The social taboo our society puts on alcohol creates its own market for kids wanting to find out what the "big deal" is.

Drinking ages are meaningless the only people who obey them are the ones you don't have to worry about anyway.

[RVSinOK]

The main objection I have with the age rules is consistency. Why is it that at 18, you are considered mature enough to decide who will be in charge of the most powerful nation in the world, but you aren't mature enough to decide whether to have a beer?

Why does the government think that at 18, it is OK for you to join the military and use all sorts of firearms, drive tanks, fire huge guns on ships, etc., but you're not mature enough to have a drink? Why are you able to operate weapons with the capability of doing MUCH more destruction than a simple handgun at 18, but you can't use that "little" 9 mm until 21? Or have a beer when you're done at the range???

If there is some "magic" age at which you are suddenly enlightened and capable of making your own decisions, let's make it the same for ALL of those major decisions!


PS - Don't EVEN get me started about why at age 59 and 364 days, you are perfectly capable of flying a commercial aircraft, but the next morning, you're suddenly ready for the nursing home! :banghead: :banghead:

[4570Rick]

Why does the government think that at 18, it is OK for you to join the military and use all sorts of firearms, drive tanks, fire huge guns on ships, etc., but you're not mature enough to have a drink? Why are you able to operate weapons with the capability of doing MUCH more destruction than a simple handgun at 18, but you can't use that "little" 9 mm until 21? Or have a beer when you're done at the range???

One word.

Supervision!!!

In my teenaged years, I worked on Nuclear Armed B-52s. I had supervision.
When I got off work, I went drinking (back then many states allowed beer at 18), no supervision. I have first hand knowledge of just how stupid drunken teenagers can be.:eek:

I do not want to offend anyone, but I think you should be 21 before you can:
1. Drink
2. Vote
3. Serve in the military
4. Drive
5. Get married

I just don’t think teenagers are mature enough.

But then I think youth is wasted on young people.:what: :neener:

[clange]

Drinking age should be 16, and you shouldnt be able to get a drivers license until 18. The test should be much harder (maybe even include a class), insuring more skill in the average driver, thus allowing the speed limits to be increased. (sounds a lot like germany i guess, but i think they're ding it right over there, at least on these two issues). I dont see how you can die for your country but not drink. If the age was lowered i think it may actually cut down on teenage drinking also. If they get out of school and go to a bar for a drink or two then it wont be so taboo to the point where they want to drink just because they're not allowed to. I drank a ton more when i was underage, when i turned 21 it wasnt that big of a deal and i started drinking less. The coresponding raise in the age to get a drivers license would allow people to know how they react to alcohol, as well as grow out of the binge drinking stage, before they can drive.

My .02

[Skunkabilly]

Lowered to 18, if not eliminated.

None of their business. Think about it....parents can afford better alcohol than your friends. And best of all, it'll be free :D

[Demon440]

18 for everything.

[Demon440]

Actually on second thought, perhaps 21 for everying.
Only problem I see with that is the large loss in military persons. Anyone have any idea what number of military persons are under 21?

[Devonai]

Limiting military service to age 21 is a sure-fire way of diminishing our military to pre-WWI population. I don't have the numbers to back it up but I'm quite sure this would eliminate a very large percentage of recruits.

The military is having enough of a problem finding new recruits as it is.

I voted for 18 soft. 18 is a good compromise on when a person becomes a true "adult" for legal purposes. But Piaget put a fully developed adult at age 25. Maturity is gained through experience AND upbringing. If you don't want your kids abusing alcohol maybe you should properly educate them before they reach 18/21.

[Cowboy Preacher]

I tuely belive that all these age laws need to be rethought and prehaps changed. I personally would not care if alcohol vanished forever, but that won't happen. So the family should teach the kid to act responsibly not have Big Brother telling you when you are old enough.

Does anyone know why at 18 you are mature enough to buy a .50 Barrett but a .22 Ruger auto is out of your capability for three more years? Makes no sense. What was the reasons for the graduated ages on gun buying?

[goalie]

Here's my two cents on when it should be legal.

-21 years old.
-When you earn your high school diploma.
-When you graduate boot camp.

IMO, it should be whichever comes first.

[NewShooter78]

If there are going to be age limits, then there needs to be consistency in those limits. And I don't think that serving in the military should give you any special privilages either. Although, I do think if you are old enough to die for your country, then that is plenty old enough to do whatever any other "adult" can do.

[Art Eatman]

In my teen years, the legal age was 21. So, we were sneaky about drinking and worried about parents finding out, more than about the law. (Early-teen drinking was legal if you were with your parents.)

This forced us to learn a certain amount of self-control, to try to fake out both parents and cops. At age 21, one of two things happened: Some of us quit drinking, cause there wasn't any thrill of "getting away with something". The other was, we'd already learned how to deal with drinking.

Fast forward to the 1970s, when the drinking age was lowered to 18: My wife and I pretty much quit going to any nightclub. The noise levels and raucousness had dramatically increased. The clubs were full of teeny-boppers who'd get blithered if you slapped them across the face with a wet bar-rag. They didn't know how to hold their booze.

So, from the standpoint of overall behavior that I've observed, I tend to favor the Age 21 requirement...

Art

[Joe Demko]

No age limit on anything. Except wars. Those should be strictly voluntary with an age of consent of 21. Oh, and the President and legislature are required to serve in front-line combat slots.

[barqfox]

No offense to young or old, but... There's quite enough 21+ drunken jackasses at the bars I hang out at. I really hate to think of a bunch of teenyboppers invading. :what:

But, hey, if you want to get a bunch of teenaged DUIs to augment the local law enforcement income, by all means.. :evil:

-Tom

[erikm]

16 soft, with a concurrent raising of the driving age to 18 HARD (not even theory lessons, let alone behind the wheel). Let kids learn about alcohol and its effects looong before they learn about cars. And if they need to get someplace, that's what a bicycle or bus is for...

That's the situation in this country and it seems to work fairly well. Sure we have young people who drink themselves into a stupor, but even those generally know not to get into a car.

Cheers,
ErikM :evil:

[CMichael]

IMO if you are at the age that you can be drafted and fight for your country you are at an age where you should be allowed to legally drink alcohol.

[Ian]

So can y'all (with the exception of those who voted for no restrictions) explain just how you have the right to impose you views on this matter on everyone else, including both young people and their parents? Or is this just a matter of "if it saves even one life, it should be done"?

[No4Mk1]

So by logical extension of your question, we should have no laws? If you claim to be an anarchist, fine, but otherwise you should explain your position a bit more.

I think making a comparison between RKBA and the drinking age is more than a bit off the wall. One is a constitutionally protected right. The other is consumption of a mind-altering substance.

[Art Eatman]

Re the "If you're old enough to be in the military, you're old enough to drink."

Yup. IF you're in the military. I went in at 19. Drank a lot of beer at the PX. Heck, one kid in the outfit was still sixteen years old! Lots of 17 and 18 types, too. And stripes got you into the NCO club, where they sold hard stuff. :)

Art

[rock jock]

No. It should be eliminated. The states (and Feds indirectly) have zero business telling people what they may or may not drink.
Wrong. The people have every right to pass laws via their state govt. to restrict minors from drinking. We have established 18 to be the legal age for accountability as an adult for most actions with good reason.

Actually, you have no business telling the people of a community or state what they may or may not restrict as long as those restrictions are not prohibited by the Constitution.:D

[Futo Inu]

It should be 18, period. If you're old enough to be drafted and die for your country, then you should be able to get blitzed at your pleasure.

Or, leave it at 21 and raise the conscription age to 21 as well. Just be consistent.

There should be some age that you know from childhood that you're going to need to be very very responsible in all of your actions, whether it be 18, 20 or whatever - we should pick an age and stick with it.

[MeekandMild]

Enforce the laws against public intoxication and DUI then remove all drinking age barriers.

[six 4 sure]

I don’t know what the magical age is at which you become an adult. Is it 16, 18, 21, 25? Who knows? I think everyone is different, but I do agree there needs to be consistency. You can die for your country at 18, but can’t drink until 21. You have to wait till 21 to buy a beer, but can’t rent a car till you’re 25. And paying for college can become interesting especially if your parents refuse to foot the bill because they can still claim you on their taxes until your 24.

six

[Cellar Dweller]

18 to join voluntarily (or be drafted).

17 with parent/guardian signing off on your enlistment and witnessed by your recruiter.

[winstonsmith]

As a 15 year old, I have a unique slant on this situation.

Young people are going to abuse alcohol with or wiithout laws. If you think about it hard, they will probably abuse alcohol more if laws are in place. Forbidden fruit, and all that.

If I want to drink a little, to get goofy with friends, while staying inside a house and watching bad japanese television (Ahh the memories) this is none of the governments buisness. I am not a criminal for wanting to explore alcohol. In fact, this makes me normal.

Think about it. Would you rather have you kids get drunk with you, or with their buddies off where you can't supervise?

[Ian]

rock jock - Just because it might be legally allowable doesn't mean it should be done. No state government has a legitimate claim over my eating and drinking habits, period.

This issue has a far greater direct effect on me than on most posters here, as I'm 20 years of age. For me, this thread might as well be titled "when should we 'allow' Ian do have a beer?" As if I need the state's (or anyone else's) permission to imbibe alcohol. Any of y'all who think that you have some authority over my choices in this matter are welcome to come down here and try to enforce you opinions. It happens that I don't drink, but I'll make an exception for you guys. :fire:

[No4Mk1]

Well, Ian, I think you are taking this a bit too personally, but here is how I see it....

There must be an age at which society deems individuals to be responsible adults. Persons capable of making rational informed decisions, entering into contracts, going to war, etc. For most things in our country that age is set at 18. I voted "18 Hard" because I am of the opinion that if a person is to be treated as an adult in most things, he or she should be treated as an adult in all things.

You can make an argument that each individual reaches this age of "reasoned consent" at a different age, but as a society we have to draw a line in the sand somewhere, and somewhere in the range of 18 to 21 seems pretty reasonable to me.

Once we have drawn this line, it is then reasonable for society to designate (through laws) that people below this age of reasoned consent are not capable of making the decision to either engage in or abstain from certain behaviors, and for this reason should be prohibited from engaging in them. Should parents have the freedom to make this decision for the child? In some regards yes, and in others no. There are some activities that, despite the opinions of the parents, are so dangerous or unhealthy for children below a certain age they should be prohibited. Lets face it, the world is full of really bad parents.

I am of the school that thinks an informed person should have the right to stick any substance in their body that they please, as long as they aren't doing it in public or harming anyone else in the process. You want to kill yourself with chemical enhancements? Go for it! But children are not able to make an informed decision on this subject, nor should their parents make it for them.

Don't take this the wrong way, Ian. If I had my way you would be drinking right now (if you chose to). However, I do think it is important as a society that we protect minors from certain dangers.

[Monte Harrison]

Anyone know of a good, general political forum?

[Sean Smith]

18. Juveniles do not have full rights of citizenship by definition (otherwise, all parenting would be a civil rights violation :D ), so I have no heartburn about prohibiting drinking for those under 18.

[Art Eatman]

Aw, winstonsmith, bein' fifteen ain't all that unique. :D I wuz fifteen, once upon a time. 1949, it was. Turned fifteen about the time of my first airplane ride, from Austin, Texas, to Manila, Philippines.

But I still remember my mother's comment to me, around age thirteen: "If you're going to drink, do it at home. At your age, you'd look foolish, drinking in public." The comment always stuck in my mind, not wanting to look foolish, and I passed it on to my son. :) Having tacit permission, I never bothered to raid the refrigerator. (Which, of course, was the whole intent of my mother's comment. Sharp old gal.) I did have the occasional glass of beer with my parents at a Mexican-food restaurant, occasionally. That's another thing that's stuck with me.

The whole idea of learning about drinking, though, is how to pace yourself so you don't get goofy. It's the getting goofy that can easily come under the heading of "Stoopid". (Which I ain't gonna say I never did. I just never fooled myself that it was all that smart.)

:), Art

[AZ Jeff]

I lived in Illinois when the drinking age was changed from 21 to 18, back about 1974, I think.

Shortly thereafter (within 1-2 years) the insurance industry started lobbying for the age to revert back to 21. They were able to cite an increased number of auto accidents among young drivers where alcohol was involved. The evidence was pretty compelling as I remember, and was gleaned from accident reports from law enforcement.

The law was rescinded by about 1980, and has remained 21 ever since.

I would suspect that, if we looked at other states with similar histories, we would probably see similar rises in motor vehicle accidents & deaths following lowering the drinking age.

That alone would make me feel that 21 is a better age limit than 18.

Of course, there are plenty of persons who should not be allowed to drink at 21, because they endanger others when they do so, but that's a whole 'nuther issue.....

[cordex]

I would suspect that, if we looked at other states with similar histories, we would probably see similar rises in motor vehicle accidents & deaths following lowering the drinking age.

That alone would make me feel that 21 is a better age limit than 18.
Good point!
Now lemme see, 21 is better than 18 so ... anyone up for going to 23? What about 25?
Any votes for 30?
Why, I bet if we made the limit "curmudgeon or older" there'd be some pretty happy curmudgeons. Well ... they'd find something else to complain about, anyway. *grin*

[AZ Jeff]

Hey, most CCW laws have age limits on their issuance. I would suspect the reasons are the similar to those for drinking limits.

Are you saying those are wrong, too?

While in priniciple, the idea of not setting artificial age limits and restrictions on personal behavior is commendable, the fact is that plenty of people have no business doing certain activities at certain ages. The devil if figuring out WHEN and HOW to draw the line, and WHO should do it!

[Ian]

Yeah, I probably am taking this too personally. But what really gets to me is seeing so many people who believe that they somehow have some authority to make other people do what they decide is best. That's the polar opposite of the idea of individual freedom.

AZ Jeff - Yes, I am.

Now lemme see, 21 is better than 18 so ... anyone up for going to 23? What about 25? Any votes for 30?Aw, heck - let's just ban it for everyone, so that drunk driving will go away completely! :rolleyes: ;)

[WonderNine]

Law here states 21, I was binge drinking already when I was 12. I still remember my first experience waking up in a puddle of my own puke. Those were the days. :rolleyes: :D

[rock jock]

No state government has a legitimate claim over my eating and drinking habits, period. Since you're over 18, I agree. Had you posted this three years ago, your opinion might have been valid but your ability to enforce it ala the vote would not. And philisophically speaking, kids don't have the mental or sociological maturity necessary to make those decisions, so yes, the govt. would have a very real AND legitimate claim to restricting just about anything you might do.

Any of y'all who think that you have some authority over my choices in this matter are welcome to come down here and try to enforce you opinions.
Uh-oh. Thems fightin' words!:D

Seriously, I do enforce my opinions all the time, at the ballot box.

[lycanthrope]

And........kids DO NOT handle alcohol the same way adults do. Due to physiology differences kids and teens become alcoholics much easier than adults.

It's why Ritalin is a stimulant and why it slows kids with Attention Deficit Disorder down.........a normal adult drops a Ritalin and he feels like he had a couple cups of coffee.......

[Andrew Rothman]

18, or under parental supervision.

We need to acknowledge that although the transition from "child" to "adult" is gradual and varies in age and duration with each person, there must be a single discrete legal standard.

But the current standard of draft-and-vote at 18 (you used to have to be older to vote), drinking and pistols at 21, renting a car at 25 is ridiculous.

Of course some 19-year-olds will be irresponsible. Some 39-year-olds will too.

As I often say, I prefer that legislation (about guns or anything else) NOT be enacted based on what the village idiot may do.

Matt

[Sergeant Bob]

Monte Harrison Um, guys, this is a GUN forum.

Legal and Political
Get informed on issues affecting the right to keep and bear arms and other civil rights . Coordinate activism, debate with allies and opponents. Discuss laws concerning firearm ownership, concealed carry and self-defense.

[Kharn]

My opinion (I turn 22 in a month) is that the law should be like it is in six states (Texas, Wisconsin, and a few others, I believe), with a little modification: The current law is that kids can drink when their parents are with them at the table in a restaurant, but when their parents arent present the drinking age is 21. My modification would be that the minimum age would be 18, not 21.

Teens drink because its not allowed (same thing applies with drugs & sex, in my experiences), taking away the forbidden fruit aspect and letting them have a few drinks under the watchful eyes of their parents would (hopefully) lead them to be more responsible drinkers.

Kharn

[Seminole]

No restrictions.

No one has any business telling an adult (anyone over 18) what he or she can ingest. This is one of the implications of self-ownership.

Children are the responsibility of their parents and no one else. Therefore no one but the individual's parent has any business telling any minor what he or she can ingest.

[rock jock]

Children are the responsibility of their parents and no one else. Therefore no one but the individual's parent has any business telling any minor what he or she can ingest.
You don't have any kids, do you?

[longeyes]

No lower limit.

It's been scientifically proven that whiskey is the most effective
antidote against Ritalin.

Save our young men from civilization.

[zahc]

18 soft.

18 because I do not drink but the thought that I cannot legally do so outrages me. I almost want to start just because of it...

Soft because hard requires a lot of intrusion to enforce.

[Bill Hook]

Shortly thereafter (within 1-2 years) the insurance industry started lobbying for the age to revert back to 21. They were able to cite an increased number of auto accidents among young drivers where alcohol was involved. The evidence was pretty compelling as I remember, and was gleaned from accident reports from law enforcement.

I'm going to disagree here. I personally, would make no restrictions on what a person can do with their person. The restrictions should come about as laws on the behavior they can exhibit in public and the consequences of operating vehicles, guns, etc. in the public domain. Thus, if you're 16 and can hold your liquor and don't pick fights, urinate on the sidewalk, and don't drive while intoxicated, then it's no one's business but yours and your parents. Coincidentally, there are plenty of folks well past 21 who can't handle themselves when intoxicated. Makes for a foolish double standard, IMO.

Getting to the specific point gleaned from the quote and the post whence it came, I'd say that the novelty is the real issue here and that some of these folks, because the law allows them to drive before they can drink, have no real yardstick to guage the consequences. If these folks could drink before they could drive, they may realize the potential consequences, and it is harder to do damage to others when you crack up your bike or skateboard. Again, there are plenty of drivers well past 21 who get pulled for DUI, and some are lawyers, judges, pols, etc. who should know better (GWB has a few DUIs, no?), so the age factor is a red herring to the issue of personal responsibility.

[Nightfall]

If you're old enough to be sent to some foreign nation to die in a war, you're old enough to have a beer.

[Seminole]

rock jock:
You don't have any kids, do you?

Not that it matters a whit to the argument, but, as a matter of fact, I have two. My kids are my responsibility--not yours, not the state's. I conceived them, I raise them, I pay for their food and clothing, and I discipline them in the manner I believe will best result in their becoming mature, responsible citizens.