Is nra starting to care about nfa owners?


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No Fear
October 28, 2008, 02:10 PM
I think the heat many of us have put on the nra is starting to have an effect. Either that or NRA is having a hard time hiding or justifying it's long time behavior of turning it's back on owners of nfa items.

http://www.nraila.org/News/Read/InTheNews.aspx?ID=11735

For NRA to put this as a main item of news, especially since it ONLY has to do with NFA items, is rather interesting. I would like to take it as a sign that NRA is thawing and starting to care about ALL gun owners, but I have to take a cautious "wait and see" approach. There's just too much history.

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psyopspec
October 28, 2008, 02:22 PM
I had the pleasure of attending a LaPierre speech in DC in 2006. He took questions from the audience at the end. I asked something to the effect of:

"Sir, now that American gun owners have seen victories in recent years (AWB ended, legislation to prevent suing of gun manufacturers was in congress), does the NRA have any plans to push for the repeal of GCA, FOPA, or NFA?"

LaPierre's answer had nothing to do with my question - he basically fed a line about making sure that hunters could keep their shotguns.

Gunnerpalace
October 28, 2008, 02:28 PM
No,

Complain to them, get over 30% of their members to do so, when faced with loss of members they will fight.

Jorg Nysgerrig
October 28, 2008, 02:30 PM
Uh, it's a three line blurb in the middle of a bunch of other blurbs of daily news. How is this a big deal?

No Fear
October 28, 2008, 03:24 PM
Uh, it's a three line blurb in the middle of a bunch of other blurbs of daily news. How is this a big deal?I never said it was a "big deal." I said nothing of the sort. In fact, I recognized that this is a small piece of something that IS a big deal. So you ignore things unless they are huge? Sounds like it.get over 30% of their members to do so, when faced with loss of members they will fight.Amen. Being in the position of having to wake people up is not fun, but it has to be done nonetheless. I don't think we have the option of ignoring this issue. I think ignoring it is as dangerous to our liberties as being an anti gunner.LaPierre's answer had nothing to do with my question - he basically fed a line about making sure that hunters could keep their shotguns.That is maddening but it shows that we have work to do.

mwarnick1
October 28, 2008, 04:07 PM
I believe they are starting to care and now is the time to back it up with not just complaints but also MONEY. Money and members is what will keep them pointed in the right direction.

Look at the number of machine gun articles in the NRA mag during the last year. The biggest surprise was the NRA mag that had the blurb about how to conduct quick mag changes with the AK style guns. Holy cow! The fudds must have fallen dead over that one.

I spoke with a senior NRA fundraiser the other week. He said the reason the NRA is beginning to care about black guns is that they're seeing many of the big donors care about black guns.

It all comes down to money.

Matt

TexasRifleman
October 28, 2008, 04:22 PM
They better begin to care, a lot.

Hunting seems to be a slowly dying sport due to over regulation and lack of hunting areas unfortunately.

NRA is going to have to play more to the "EBR" crowd as their hunting membership shrinks if they want to keep up the membership numbers.

taliv
October 28, 2008, 04:28 PM
of course they care. they're just on the wrong side of the issue. they want those guns banned.

that pathetic article is far more notable for what it doesn't say. What you don't see in the article is "the NRA lobbied lawmakers to..." or "the bill that the NRA supported" etc.

look, if the NRA doesn't even want to have their name attached to a legal victory in Kansas of all places...

Japle
October 28, 2008, 04:29 PM
The anti-gunners started with laws against machineguns and worked their way to the mess we have now. They did it a step at a time.

We have to reverse all this the same way. First, get our basic rights of ownership recognized (not done yet, but getting there), the right to carry concealed, then open carry, then long gun carry, then, someday, GCA68 and NFA and the rest will die.

We’re in the early stages. The NRA can’t jump to the end without going through the other steps first.

This is gonna take decades. If we lose one vote in SCOTUS, we could lose it all.

mbt2001
October 28, 2008, 04:48 PM
A change on the order of the NFA can only happen when we have tilted the debate and playing ground for people to accept widescale civilian ownership of machine guns. That isn't going to happen through some legal loophole, as much as I want it to, because the public thinks that these guns can kill from orbit and fire a million rounds in 1 second...

Ending the Pre-86 peice of the NFA would help alot... That maybe something we can do in the near future, but it will take progressive gains for 10 - 20 years before we can have machine guns with no license.

billwiese
October 28, 2008, 04:59 PM
I believe the NRA cares.

They care about us in CA and helped us a lot with our 'off list' rifle campaign for tweaked black guns. They got alongside us and let us know about the work they/their CA lawyers were doing, and helped provide some legal push and kept folks outta jail when "offlist rifles" weren't really known.
I expect that we'll be able to have untweaked black guns in CA in approx a year or so.

The problem is that gun lawyers are smart enough to know what's possible when. All the people telling Alan Gura to bring up NFA stuff in Heller apparently wanted him to lose the case. AWs are bad enough, but we at least can show cosmetic differences from normal rifles; full-auto is politically radioactive even for judges/justices: a direct attack will be a loser, many sympathetic judges still don't wanna be regarded as "legalizing machineguns".

We'll get 922(o) wins when other stuff drops into place. Right now cementing Heller thru incorporation of RKBA is step #1. Protecting common use guns (which includes newspaper-defined AWs/EBRs) is #2. Getting rid of 'sporting use'/922(r) crap is #3 and lays the groundwork for NFA stuff.


Bill Wiese
San Jose CA

No Fear
October 28, 2008, 05:10 PM
They better begin to care, a lot.

Hunting seems to be a slowly dying sport due to over regulation and lack of hunting areas unfortunately.

NRA is going to have to play more to the "EBR" crowd as their hunting membership shrinks if they want to keep up the membership numbers.I hate to be in the position of rooting for the continued demise of hunting, but dangit, as hunting diminishes, it's helping the cause RKBA because a HUUUGE percentage of hunters don't give a crap about the 2nd amendment, are in favor of gun bans, and are flat out scared of ARs/AKs, or they hate them and their owners. We call these guys "fudds" because they just want THEIR gun left alone http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/3935/hunterec8.gif and they are too cowardly to bother with the wider 2nd amendment issue. It's easier for them to hate us and our "evil" black guns and selling us up the river. They have a view that they and their $3000 over and under are superior to us. So, as hunting diminishes, we thankfully see fewer of these lazy and selfish "sporting purpose" gun owners. We're getting to a point that the population will divide into only two camps: those who support the 2nd am and own guns, and those who don't do either, instead of the current situation where we have a group who CALLS themselves gun owners but they will accept gun bans as long as THEY are left alone (the height of cowardice).

mp510
October 28, 2008, 05:31 PM
"Sir, now that American gun owners have seen victories in recent years (AWB ended, legislation to prevent suing of gun manufacturers was in congress), does the NRA have any plans to push for the repeal of GCA, FOPA, or NFA?"
The nra knows that repealing those laws is unrealistic and will cost them a lot of clout and political capital where it counts. They didn't become the 800 pound gorilla through radicalism. The fact that the nra is as powerful as it is- is why they are effective on the more realistic, popular, issues.

Gunnerpalace
October 28, 2008, 08:27 PM
Repealing 922o is realistic

cedjunior
October 28, 2008, 08:38 PM
I'd love to see NFA laws repealed as much as the next guy, but people who think the NRA has turned their back on this issue really confuse me. The past few decades have been hard on the 2nd, and we were lucky to avoid even worse laws than we have now. You can't just turn back the tide by demanding NFA laws be repealed. The anti-gun movement took years to chip away at the 2nd, move it from the mainstream to radicalism.

Autolycus
October 28, 2008, 08:40 PM
The article does not imply that they are for or against NFA ownership. It just says that there are more NFA dealers. It could be more people are trying to get in on the sales of these weapons, or it could be more people interested in ownership. Either way I would like the NRA to come out and actually say they support NFA ownership and fight for it.

jimmyraythomason
October 28, 2008, 08:53 PM
I support the 2nd amendment but I could care less about full auto firearms,etc. I will support the repeal of NFA and GCA 68 et.al. because,as is said, "we must all hang together or we will all hang seperately".

Hk91-762mm
October 28, 2008, 10:04 PM
Welcom to NPR national science and Nature edition!
My name is Aintagona Hunt. Id like to Introduce to you Gunbanna Obommdeomocratin Member of the citizens Action comitty to keep the streets safe from Evil guns -!
Mrs. Obommabidaleden,
Thank you for having me here today -- Id like to first say I dedacate this show to the young child Of only 8 years old who was killed with an Evil UZI MACHINE GUN AT A Mass. gun and shoot --What sane adult allows a child to handle one of these Killing machines ?? This country is Over run with Machineguns --Every day Children all over this country are killed By machine guns -These weapons of war are made for one purpose ==TO KILL as many people as fast as possible !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
NOW on the heels of this tragidy the NRA Is pushing for the REPEAL of machine gun laws Yet again showing how out of touch with common americans who want safe streets they are !! If the GCA of 68 is repealed these killing Machines will be again on our streets Killing our children --There was a reason they were outlawed in 1934 gangstars were using them to rob and murder with abandon--Finally the good americans said ENOUGH and congress made the nation safe from there killing machines -- ARE we going to allow them to be LEGAL again --to inflict carnage on the Children of this nation???

YADA YADA YADA----YOU CAN JUST IMMAGINE THIS STORY POSTED IN THE NEWS --------DEAL WITH IT ======The NRA cant fight a battle like this !
I suggest you form the machine gun and NFA action comitee to repeal bad gun laws --AND LETS SEE HOW FAR YOU GET !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

kingpin008
October 28, 2008, 10:54 PM
Wow. That was almost readable. :rolleyes:

DoubleTapDrew
October 28, 2008, 11:41 PM
NRA is going to have to play more to the "EBR" crowd
+1. The next generation may like a nice Pre-64 Model 70 but a big percentage of them also like EBRs and if the NRA wants to keep their membership numbers they better start playing to the EBR crowd.
They could attack a lot of the NFA laws but it might derail their long term strategy. Weren't they worried the Heller case came too soon? They probably figure Joe Public needs to get used to seeing EBRs without the hair standing up on the back of their neck before they can think about removing the laws restricting them or they'll really be crucified by the media (as if they aren't already).

RX-178
October 28, 2008, 11:53 PM
Do you think the NRA has a realistic view on its supporters?

Maybe it does. Maybe it doesn't.

WRITE them, and tell them that you're a member of the NRA that does not hunt, and enjoys using EBRs.

They might be genuinely surprised by the number of people like you.

Beatnik
October 29, 2008, 08:24 AM
Whatever people.
I already sent my message to the NRA when I didn't re-up.
And if the NRA really cared about "regular" guns, they wouldn't have settled with New Orleans.

They could have had Nagin eating out a dumpster by now. They could have made a point, that this is a civil right, that the Katrina situation is exactly why that right is protected, and that tin-pot dictators who think otherwise will be utterly ruined.

They can't be relied on to point out the most fundamental aspects of this right. NFA doesn't stand a snowball's chance of being repealed until someone with some political power gets that concept mastered.

rfurtkamp
October 29, 2008, 10:22 AM
Look at the number of machine gun articles in the NRA mag during the last year. The biggest surprise was the NRA mag that had the blurb about how to conduct quick mag changes with the AK style guns. Holy cow! The fudds must have fallen dead over that one.

That's not supporting machineguns or other NFA stuff, that's supporting extremely high profit margin regular ol' semi-autos.

As far as the rest of it, well, they're still not behind NFA ownership. Call and ask again if you don't believe me.

mwarnick1
October 29, 2008, 01:22 PM
"That's not supporting machineguns or other NFA stuff, that's supporting extremely high profit margin regular ol' semi-autos.

As far as the rest of it, well, they're still not behind NFA ownership. Call and ask again if you don't believe me."

It shows that the NRA mindset is shifting. This won't change overnight and expecting it to is unrealistic. I see positive change in their direction which holds promise.

We need to move the NRA to where we as members want it to be.

Matt

Owen Sparks
October 29, 2008, 02:35 PM
Originally handguns were included in the NFA. That explains all the quirky rules about short barrel rifles and pistols with removable butt stocks. They were trying to outlaw all concealable firearms. Supposedly the NRA made a compromise deal to support the NFA if pistols were removed from the bill.
They evidently are still sticking to it.

Gunnerpalace
October 29, 2008, 06:49 PM
Supposedly the NRA made a compromise deal to support the NFA if pistols were removed from the bill.
They evidently are still sticking to it.

Nope, Women,

It was said that women needed handguns to defend themselves. That is what I heard.

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