How did THR become irrelevant?


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Thin Black Line
October 31, 2008, 05:58 PM
We've lost a lot of people here over the last couple of years. What
happened? How did it happen? We have arrived at a time when THR
should be the center of activity during this quiet prelude again (recall
1992) prior to another historic battle to retain what's left of our shrivelling
2nd Amendment rights...and instead we find a lot of empty chairs...

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No Fear
October 31, 2008, 06:00 PM
Answer: overmoderation. It's good to remove posts that contain name calling, but when threads are closed for no apparent reason, and when people are banned out of personal spite, with no appeal process, on a "one strike yur out" policy, people just leave. I notice a lot of new members, but they don't stay around long enough to get to the post count in the thousands.

Bozo
October 31, 2008, 06:09 PM
"I notice a lot of new members, but they don't stay around long enough to get to the post count in the thousands."

Just curious, but your join date is this month, how have you noticed the new members who do not stay around? I am a fairly new member, not much of a post count.

No Fear
October 31, 2008, 06:11 PM
Just curious, but your join date is this month, how have you noticed the new members who do not stay around? I am a fairly new member, not much of a post count.http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=lurk&r=f

ilbob
October 31, 2008, 06:15 PM
There are a fair number of threads about how THR managed to start the self destruction process. The reasons for it are opined about at length elsewhere.

I have my own thoughts on just what it is really about that I have opined about privately.

Its clear to me that the majority of those posting most vehemently have absolutely no first hand knowledge at all. With one notable exception, those who do have at least some first hand knowledge say little publicly.

98C5
October 31, 2008, 06:19 PM
I have had PM's from mods telling me my thread will be moved to another forum. (Okay) Then the mods in that forum lock the thread. I see disarray within the site.


:scrutiny:

Carlos Cabeza
October 31, 2008, 06:23 PM
I'm a trouble maker and I'm still here ! :neener:

TnBigBore
October 31, 2008, 06:23 PM
I have met some really nice folks from this site and have always though a lot of it. That being said, it needs more forums on specific topics like:

Leverguns
Marlins
Winchesters
Deer hunting
Elk hunting
CAS
etc

just some examples, but I find it more difficult to find specific topics to contribute to here than at other sites.

No Fear
October 31, 2008, 06:27 PM
I have had PM's from mods telling me my thread will be moved to another forum. (Okay) Then the mods in that forum lock the thread. I see disarray within the site.Man that is infuriating, and people wonder why members either leave or just lurk.


I have met some really nice folks from this site and have always though a lot of it. That being said, it needs more forums on specific topics like:

Leverguns
Marlins
Winchesters
Deer hunting
Elk hunting
CAS
etc

just some examples, but I find it more difficult to find specific topics to contribute to here than at other sites.Too many sub forums ruins boards. Just take a look at arfcom and gunsnet :barf:

Maybe one titled "sporting purpose guns" for those topics you listed :D

Pat McCoy
October 31, 2008, 06:33 PM
Removal of the political forum limits discussion of the single most important aspect of the shooting community AT THIS TIME. It may not always have been that way, but THR seems to me like a person who ingonres one aspect of itself until that part just goes away. Good example is one with diabetes ignoring a wound on the foot eventually losing a leg.

Hopefully the political part will become less important as we get more of the politicians on our side. this may take awile, like four years or even eight years or more. For now limiting discussion of the most important part of shooting leaves those wanting to discuss NEW and EVER Chaning events out in the cold.

The other forums contain much repitition, as new members look for information that has been discussed many times.

Big45
October 31, 2008, 06:36 PM
The site sucks. You want a real gun forum go to m14tfl forum

TnBigBore
October 31, 2008, 06:45 PM
Quote:
"Too many sub forums ruins boards. Just take a look at arfcom and gunsnet"

Not true. Check out 24hourcampfire and Marlinowners. Both what I would call thriving sites with lots of sub topics.

Thin Black Line
October 31, 2008, 06:52 PM
I lurked and later joined this site while I was still deployed. I didn't have
a lot of movies for entertainment, but I was lucky enough to have an
internet connection. After I got home and I was allowed to have a public
opinion again, I had some run-ins with only a couple of mods over some
political topics. All in all, though, I always thought things went ok. Then
the karate chops started coming along on THR while I was out and about
in the real world and when I came back here I would notice things had
changed a lot.

camslam
October 31, 2008, 06:57 PM
I still think the forum is relevant, otherwise I wouldn't still be here reading and posting threads. Edited to add: I do think a couple of subforums have become irrelevant.

However, I think there are some real problems with certain moderators in certain subforums, that definitely have curtailed activity and overall desire to participate.

There is a streak of self-righteousness that is almost comical at times from certain mods.

On the other hand, if someone even hints at something political, we get the usual complainers and whiners policing all the activity that deviates from that which they would like to see.

I understand the need for moderation, rules, and focus, but at times I say, "give me a break".

The other thing I have noticed is an inability of some members to just not post anything or read certain threads that obviously bother them, but instead of staying out of the thread, they have to whine and complain about it.

Strange.

Walkalong
October 31, 2008, 06:59 PM
Hmmm....I'm still here, but then I usually stay on topic, don't bash people, and remember to talk about guns 99% of the time. Any site will have a lot of change in folks who log in regularly, it's human nature.

I joined here because it is moderated well and there is not a lot of the garbage going on like on some sites. You know, 5th grade pissing contests. A class place to spend some time.

Evil Monkey
October 31, 2008, 07:04 PM
Power corrupts. There's also no check and balance on forums.

I remember a while back the moderation was ridiculous. Thread locking like crazy, people getting banned for the most retarded reasons, it was just insane. Yet, it was funny how all you needed was your username to be emboldened then suddenly you were Saddam Hussein. And I don't think it subsided until thr.us came into play. Or maybe I'm wrong and I'm going to get banned today for speaking out. Check members list if you don't hear from me in a while. :eek:

The only reason I stayed was because the rifle forum here is so great and filled with intelligent folk I learned a great deal from.

Richard.Howe
October 31, 2008, 07:12 PM
hmm, see sig...

sierrabravo45
October 31, 2008, 07:32 PM
Many people have whats called "A Life". Now this might be new to some of you but "A Life" normally involves friends, family, the outdoors, and for me, a bunch of time at the range. Now this "Life" does not warrant itself much time for quibbling on the internet like a bunch of babies when the last cheerio disappears. It involves spending time away from a keyboard, and while politics, Why a Glock can blow up the world, and when the zombies come I will have my _______ (I left it blank because many of you would comment on my choice of gun and ignore the rest of the reply) There really are more important things in the world.

When you look back, did somehow arguing on the Internet make you a better person? Did learning about Condition Orange make you a better CC holder???

I find time to come on here in between a summer spent on the river, a fall spent in the woods, a winter spent reloading, and a spring sent picking up all the brass I lost in the snow. I know, its a horrible life, I don't know how I can live. But hey, somebody has to do it.......

No Fear
October 31, 2008, 07:37 PM
sb45, your post was funny, correct, and made me a better person :D

Gord
October 31, 2008, 07:46 PM
Know what would be cool? If this didn't turn into a bash the mods/why I personally hate THR thread, kinda like the "best rifle for x" threads always devolve into "what is your favorite rifle" pissing matches. I'm not hopeful.

Whatever the traffic stats say, I have noticed a big slowdown in posting since the forum split. We may have roughly the same number of people visiting the site, but a lot of valued posters seem to have been replaced by lurkers. Irony, thy name is THR custody battle :rolleyes: - that's all I'm gonna say about that.

Re: moderation, I feel that, if anything, the place is undermoderated. Posting standards seem to have slipped, which I imagine is both driving some established members away, and giving the guys doing the subpar posting a bit of an "anything goes" entitlement complex which drives them away if the mods happen to see some of their more egregious posts and tell them they're being silly or immature (which, as far as I'm concerned, 'splains the "overmoderation" complaints).

Sad but, unfortunately, all too common, among gunnies as much as any other group:

http://xs432.xs.to/xs432/08445/fwadtheory1129.jpg

Rmart30
October 31, 2008, 07:53 PM
The political forum should be allowed..... If the higher ups think it might offend someone then do as I saw on another forum board that had a disclaimer...
Enter at your own risk and no whining if you get your feelings hurt.

Another thing that hurts ALL forums are the people who always have to throw in the you could have used the search and found topics on this already
Thats fine and good but Ive seen people reprimanded for it and its their first or second post here. Guys, you could at least welcome the new person first before slamming them Yes some of you were born perfect, but the other 99.9% of us werent.

You also have the mag vs clip correctors... and the do you know how old this post is people but if you repost a new post on X subject then it goes back to the search slammer.

With that said id like to see the political forum again, and on the sale page Rifles and shotguns seperated.

qajaq59
October 31, 2008, 07:55 PM
As far as I know there's no law keeping people from starting and running their own site where they can opt for having absolutely no moderators at all. And I'm not a moderator, nor am I likely to ever become one!

meef
October 31, 2008, 07:59 PM
Things change.

The economy booms and busts.

The climate cools and warms.

Stuff happens and stuff mutates.

Change is the one thing you can count on.

Get involved in what you like here, ignore the rest.

It's not going to be the same forum a year from now that it is today. Or two years from now that it will be in a year.

It ain't complicated or avoidable.

:cool:

Gord
October 31, 2008, 08:00 PM
If the higher ups think it might offend someone then do as I saw on another forum board that had a disclaimer...

This is a great example of having no idea what you're talking about, no offense.

L&P was closed because THR's mission is to be a public example - for anti-gun and on-the-fence folks as much as for gunnies - that gun owners are not all stereotypical slovenly, bloodthirsty rednecks. The contents and direction of L&P were, of course, pretty much in direct contravention to that. It had nothing to do with THR members getting offended, and everything to do with projecting a positive image to those who ought to see it.

Think about that next time you post a "SHTF Part XVII: what rifle to kill people at 800 meters because you can" thread and wonder why it gets locked.

Merkelman
October 31, 2008, 08:05 PM
Arrogant moderators,overly obsessed with the closed button!

meef
October 31, 2008, 08:10 PM
Arrogant moderators,overly obsessed with the closed button! :rolleyes:

Oh brother......

Hk91-762mm
October 31, 2008, 08:12 PM
Do what I do-
I come here when I seek Gun Info and I try and share knowledge with fello gunnies ,,while wearing My polite hat!
I go to many other places to let off steam about politics and to say what I think about certian subjects --I also let be known what Id like to see happen to the likes of ray shornkie ,Ted kennedy,Biden and Yomomma .
On the plus side you guys put up with me and I dont have to worry about someone replying to me in a harassing manner --YOu have to be nice --just like kindergarten!
Oh yea Sometimes I forget to use the Spullum And grameiricals checker and no one tries to play Im smarter than you look at your mistakes Bullschite.
Nice place here You Just have to work within the framework of the board!

smartshooter.45
October 31, 2008, 08:19 PM
i lurked for a few months before becoming a member. i joined because i liked to see that there were dedicated members and mods with lots of useful info to share. for me the internet is a tool to learn and to share what i have learned. THR helps me do that. some posts are trash and some people are dumb, but there is lots of good content to be found.

jakemccoy
October 31, 2008, 08:20 PM
I understand why THR has a policy of not allowing political threads. Glocktalk has a politics room, and it's a complete disaster. The rare intelligent posts are drowned out by the name callers and the other shenanigans.

A few things are happening with THR and online forums generally that could be improved:

-Mods are locking threads a little too often on a whim, for example, if a thread just so happens to irritate the particular moderator.

-Mods taking parting shots on a member right before closing a thread. I'm one thread away from leaving this site based on that alone.

-More liars, trolls and pretenders are invading online forums generally. (THR does not have this problem as much as other forums do.) It's really out of hand. Sometimes, I'll come into a thread that happens to be my real world established expertise. I'll make a comment. Somebody will call me a moron. Then, 10 other people will join in on the moron bandwagon. Maybe they're irritated about the economy or about their life in general. Who knows? Such threads happen way too often. What's bad for me is if this happens when I want to learn more about a particular subject.

MIL-DOT
October 31, 2008, 08:25 PM
I see, and agree with several points here. First, I gotta agree that THR can be aggressively over-moderated, but I must say, this is still about the best gun forum out there, and believe me,I'm not kissing any butt, I think a couple times the moderators may have been close to punching my ticket.:evil:
But as CarlosCabeza said just ...."I'm a trouble maker and I'm still here!!":neener:

RioShooter
October 31, 2008, 08:29 PM
The most users EVER online at one time occurred 3 nights ago. I'm not sure what many of you are talking about. THR seems to be doing just fine.

qwert65
October 31, 2008, 08:31 PM
I think thr is the best gun forum on the net I think it has slipped a little but its still the best by far IMO.

While I sorta have a life (vet school) I'm in a 3rd world countryt surrounded by peta members who think obama is the greatest thing since sliced bread, not bc of his policies but bc the humane society endorsed him! seriously its scary. point is thr is my oasis for gun talk(so people here don't think i'm a nut)
so for me thr is still very relevant

pinstripe
October 31, 2008, 08:42 PM
I'm still around. I have not problems with this sight, but I have noticed the amount of activity on this sight declining. Hope all of the good folks that I have met stick around.

harmonic
October 31, 2008, 08:52 PM
I belong to about a dozen boards. They all seem to be declining in membership.

My take is that it's just getting boring. Same people with the same ideology and statements.

I'm personally tired of hearing about the 9mm vs 45 acp controversy.

It's getting boring.

Geno
October 31, 2008, 08:56 PM
THR isn't irrelevant. There are issues, of which I have no personal knowledge. My intent at THR.org and .us is to remain neutral. I don't have a dog in the fight. IMHO, the best we can all do is continue life, and let the process resolve matters.

I do strongly agree that timing isn't good, the elction and all. But, again, it isn't my call. THR is a great forum, and I enjoy coming here. I'll be here (God willin' and the creek don't rise) for many more years.

SoCalShooter
October 31, 2008, 09:02 PM
I really don't see any problems that anyone has described if people would think and search before they post a thread there would be less problems but that is an internet issue in general.

Ash
October 31, 2008, 09:10 PM
Considering I got banned at The Firing Line, though I had been a member since 2001, when two other members, neither of which had been there as long as I, including a certain Alaskan with a feral name who really jerked me around with a Nagant sale back in the spring, idiotic and capricious moderation can happen anywhere.

The Firing Line was an interesting diversion, but I certainly don't miss being there. Indeed, frankly I probably would not visit even were I not banned given the deepness of the excrement. I enjoy this place, but I go many places (including that novel thing of interacting with live people in the real world).

The question here, though, seems odd. I don't see it as irrelevant, though tacticool seems to have gained a very strong foot hold here.

Ash

SSN Vet
October 31, 2008, 09:20 PM
I don't suppose it could have anything to do with the umpteenth hundred "which AK should I get thread" could it.

It's getting boring.

I can relate to that sentiment

Erich
October 31, 2008, 09:26 PM
It appears that I have more seniority than anyone posting on this thread so far. :) I've been a member since THR opened (and was one of the first two hundred at TFL - heck, I was on Glock Talk on the old white board), but I don't come around much anymore. It got blocked by my work machine, so that really cut into my ability to visit. And I just fell away. Accordingly, I have no idea whether it's irrelevant - but I'd be surprised to hear it.

I've noticed that the tone of forums changes over time (in '97, Glock Talk was a hardcore knowledge base that was mostly comprised of folks who used Glocks professionally) - part of this is that welcoming places attract folks who are newer to the hobby and who are still hashing out questions that have been discussed pretty extensively by folks who've been around for a while. Nothing wrong with that - but when the folks who've discussed a given issue as it repeatedly comes up for many years get tired of seeing it, they naturally move on to other places that are a little more focused on their interests.

Anyway, I hope folks still derive a lot from THR. :)

20nickels
October 31, 2008, 09:40 PM
This is why I rarely venture out of Tools and Technologies. THR rocks.

Art Eatman
October 31, 2008, 09:44 PM
The idea that Oleg and the rest of us had was to provide an Internet website for advancement of the Right to Keep and Bear Arms.

Part of the deal is to persuade the fence-sitters, neutrals and mildly anti-gun folks that gun owners are not a bunch of knuckle-dragging Neanderthals, incapable of rational thought.

It's obvious that there is nowhere near perfection in our efforts. In some cases, abject failure.

Art

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