January 15, 2003, 01:59 AM
it seems that the curious HS Mod 10 was no more tan a bullpup conversion of the standard autoloading 12Ga. Anybody can tell WHICH 12Ga was converted into mod 10? was it a gas-operated gun?
mod 10A and B - aonly visible difference is in the carrying handle (fixed vs folding) and tactical light mounting.. any other differences known?
and finally - which are the years of manufacture of this curiosity and did any PD use it?
January 15, 2003, 02:38 AM
The 10A and 10B used the standard High Standard Flite King shotgun as the basis of the gun. It was a gas operated gun.
The difference between the "A" and "B", was the "A" model had the flashlight built into the carrying handle, and an operating handle only on the bolt.
The "B" model, had the detachable carrying handle, a detachable standard-type flashlight, different rear sight, folding front sight, and an additional operating handle on the left side that could be used without removing the gun from your shoulder.
I'm not sure when production started, but I was in California in 1967 when I saw a spot on the local news about a Beverly Hills detective who invented the prototype bullpup gun. The gun he used was a Remington 1100.
He later sold the idea to High Standard, who used their Flite King gun.
The 10A and B were restricted to police departments only until High Standard began getting into financial trouble, and for a few years they were sold to civilians too.
The gun was plagued by jamming problems. The gun required Magnum ammo, even specifying this on the plastic receiver cover, but they still malfunctioned.
The guns had some popularity with police agencies, but the gun was heavy, somewhat clumsy, and very expensive. When they found the guns had reliability problems too, that was the "kiss of Death".
I had a "B" model that had been used by a local police department. It had proven unreliable for them, and it had sat in the rack for years. When they traded it in on a Remington 870, I bought it, and attempted to get it to work properly.
I was never able to fix the jamming problem, and finally sold it to a collector.
January 21, 2003, 08:27 PM
A little more on the 10B. The flashlight mount for it was supposed to point the beam to coincide with the point of impact. It seemed to work at close range, but the recoil would jam the D cell batteries together and compress them. Basically, you needed to change the batteries if you ever fired the gun with the flashlight on-at least with the unit in my experience. The rotating butt plate would allow you to brace it against your bicep and fire the gun one handed, but that would be of limited value. The old Dick Tracy comic strip featured Tracy using the Model 10 on a few occasions.
Never got widespread acceptance, one booster of the design was the late Mel Tappan, who wrote "Survival Guns" and used to write a column for survivalists for Guns and Ammo Magazine.
January 29, 2003, 12:36 PM
;) thought I'd be the only old timer who recalled the Dick Tracy depiction of the HS M10. (I don't recall if it was the -A or -B. Do you?)
Interesting thing about Mr. Tappan-- He was a good writer and researcher, but I'm told on pretty good authority that ALL of his information was second hand-- That he was confined to a wheelchair with some type of nerve disorder, and had very little use of his hands/arms.
Some considered his writing dishonest for this reason--that he could not have participated in any of the activities about which he wrote. I tend to think he DID have some good informaiton, from whatever source, and he was an entertaining writer. RIP.
January 29, 2003, 02:43 PM
Yup, Johnny. I guess it dates us if we remember certain things like Dick Tracy! I think he had the 10A, with the built in flashlight.
Always got a kick out of that series, and the strange villans he had to fight.
Mel Tappan was a paraplegic, and his writings were based mainly on information he acquired passively. He did get a lot of people thinking about the concept of personal responsibility for your own safety and survival, but yes, you had to filter his advice within his perspective.
Do have some affection for the 10B, the one in my experience worked okay for a while, and late one night it felt a whole lot better in my hands than my 1911.