Fallout from the recent accident involving an NFA weapon.


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Hoplophile
November 1, 2008, 10:33 PM
This just goes to show that the other side isn't above using the death of a child as leverage for their political agenda. Also, being 19, I can imagine how this law would affect me, were it passed!

http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2008/10/28/uzi_recoils_questions_echo?mode=PF


Uzi recoils, questions echo
Boy's death spurs hard look at laws for guns, children

By David Abel, Globe Staff | October 28, 2008

WESTFIELD - As his father raised his camera, an 8-year-old boy aimed an Uzi at a pumpkin set up at a shooting event. Before his father could focus, the third-grader from Connecticut squeezed the trigger, and the high-powered weapon recoiled and fatally shot the boy in the head.

The death of Christopher Bizilj at the Westfield Sportsman's Club Sunday has raised questions about how someone so young could be allowed to shoot an automatic weapon, which can fire hundreds of rounds in a minute...

...COPYRIGHTED MATERIAL REMOVED...

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ilbob
November 1, 2008, 10:36 PM
This is what happens when you allow an unsafe action to occur.

DeathByCactus
November 1, 2008, 10:51 PM
First off I don't believe anyone should be able to fire a weapon that is full auto unless they are over 18, I think the ban unless 21 is a little extreme. Second off, I am still amazed someone would let an 8 year old fire a F/A Uzi.

Hoplophile
November 1, 2008, 10:54 PM
DeathByCactus: Who are you to tell people what they may allow their kids to do? What if your friend had a gay son? Would you insist that the son wasn't allowed to be gay until he was eighteen?

The parent made a bad decision. Banning parents from making decisions isn't going to solve anything.

Andy-Y
November 1, 2008, 11:03 PM
Wow, when I was 18 I was firing an M240G in training all the time, guess they should raise the age to join the Army too!

RaisedByWolves
November 1, 2008, 11:11 PM
"Who are you to tell people what they may allow their kids to do?"




Agreed!



As long as the father now goes to jail.



.

knockonit
November 1, 2008, 11:20 PM
Yep lets make that age 21, then when another fella or gal gets hurt, lets make it 18, then when another fella or gal gets hurt lets just take them away.
Only idiots advocate taking rights away.
hey just my opinion.
accidents happen, this one probably shouldnt' but its not like there is rash of younguns in America getting mowed down,
Now maybe in Africa, Iraq, then maybe we oughta restrict the youngun's over there, to not handle or utilize a weapon, real sure you'll get their attention with that one.

Ragnar Danneskjold
November 1, 2008, 11:25 PM
This is what happens when you allow an unsafe action involving guns to occur.

To be plain, thousands of kids die every year in $30 inflatable pools, but no one says jack ####. Unsafe stuff happens every second, many times resulting in death. Guns are one of the only things that people react to.

Hk91-762mm
November 1, 2008, 11:50 PM
If dad bought the kid a bike that was too big for him to ride safely and he went doen the driveway the first time -right into traffic --Would
A-legislators want to ban any kid from riding a bike untill they are 18??
B- any THR posters want to see the dad in jail!????
Bad things happen ==learn from them dont call for more regulations--God knows how many regulations we have to deal with --You cant legislate intellegence and You cant stop all accidents ....Yesterday an aquantiance was killed in a hunting accident --I bet the PETA heads are calling for an end to hunting --!
I was teaching an 80lb asian 11yo girl to shoot a 44 magnum[only pistol we had that day] I told her IT jumps alot hold tight it wont hurt you---Bang X6 That was fun More bullets please ! and she hit the target too!
Andy---you beat me to it --I was going to post about 18yos shooting MGs and driving tanks !

lonegunman
November 2, 2008, 01:14 AM
The idiotic cry for more laws is a typical knee jerk reaction of an anti-gun idiot politician.

In Washington state a decade ago the libs cried for a law to make firearms training mandatory for all gunowners and to make it a felony to let your license lapse. Why? To save the children of course.

I asked a simple question of the lefties at a rally. What is a child? They got mad as hell and screamed that "EVERYONE IS SOMEBODY'S CHILD!!!" The were forced to admit they included people up to the age of 21 and in some cases 24 to get the numbers they needed.

Nevermind a 24Y/O can fly an Apache into combat or a 21y/o can lead a squad into battle.

That being said, giving an 8y/o boy an Uzi is pretty much the stupidest thing I have ever heard done at a range in quite a while. This should have been a simple thing to say no to for even the lousiest parent in the world.


The amount of misery this will cause gun owners in general, the millions of dollars in lawsuits, the loss of a child for that family, the probable loss of a great shooting facility when they shut the place down and the end of organized machinegun shoots in that region are all likely results of this mess.


When the smoke clears, this guy will sue everyone for his mistake. The dad killed that kid with lousy parenting. The police chief who ran that company is screwed. The range is screwed and their insurance company will flee ASAP after this. They will be lucky to survive as a club. If they ever organize another shoot in the state, every loser reporter will decend on the facility that agrees to this and this crap will get whipped into a frenzy again.

With the most anti-gun group of socialists in the history of America about to come to power we don't have to guess what is coming next. This accident will be front and center in the next ban scare.

JohnKSa
November 2, 2008, 01:21 AM
State Representative Michael Costello, the Newburyport Democrat who co-chairs the Joint Committee on Public Safety and Homeland Security, said yesterday that he plans to draft a bill that would ban anyone younger than age 21 from firing an automatic weapon.Yeah, that's what is wrong with this country today...

Too many minors firing automatic weapons. :rolleyes:

Why do something about the economy--let's pass some laws that affect almost NO one.

1911Gunslinger
November 2, 2008, 01:24 AM
Last week a 17 year old girl here lost control of her car....I guess that we should ban anyone under 21 from driving too?

The "trained professional" should have either helped hold the gun or only loaded 2-3 rounds in the mag.

We really need to ban those guns....they kill tooo many peole. Hell lets ban knives, cars, motorcycles, swimming pools, baseball bats, trampolines, planes, boats, alcoholic beverages,cigarettes, sweets, red meat, eggs....after all millions have been killed by those things!!!:neener:

GW
November 2, 2008, 01:52 AM
Put dad in jail??
How absurd.
This was a terrible accident but in no way homicide.
Geez Maybe dad isn't suffering enough:rolleyes:

Kind of Blued
November 2, 2008, 01:58 AM
State Representative Michael Costello, the Newburyport Democrat who co-chairs the Joint Committee on Public Safety and Homeland Security, said yesterday that he plans to draft a bill that would ban anyone younger than age 21 from firing an automatic weapon.

So an 18-year-old shooting a 128lb. Browning M2 (that is NOT going to move) at a paper target on a 1000 yd. range should be illegal? It's ok for the same kid, to shoot the same gun in defense of one's country, overseas in war, at human beings?

Is it ok for a 70lb., 21-year-old bullimic girl that can't do a push-up to shoot an Uzi? What about a 220lb. 20-year old male that can benchpress a Buick? That should obviously be illegal, right? :scrutiny:

Gun laws are painfully stupid. Painfully stupid people making gun laws is even worse.

Logan5
November 2, 2008, 01:03 AM
I wonder what this Bob Greenleaf's agenda is? He's making some wild and inflammatory statements for someone on the club's board, deciding who should be charged with what, and babbling about sideways recoil killing tens of people.

As I read it, a boy is dead, and no one knows exactly what went wrong. The two competing theories in the article seem to be "guns are bad" and "freak accident". I can't understand it myself, hopefully more facts are forthcoming.

RonE
November 2, 2008, 02:05 AM
I predicted that the legislators would not let this accident (opportunity) get past them. It is sad that they can promote their anti gun agenda because of an accident.

I predict that the proposed ban against anyone under 21 firing an automatic weapon will be changed to under 18 and semi auto instead of auto and will include rifles, pistols and shotguns.

skwab
November 2, 2008, 09:10 AM
This was definitely a senseless tragedy brought on by carelessness in it's most extreme case - but why does there have to be a law? I agree those involved should be punished, and let's not forget that a father lost his son to his stupidity, so you probablly can't punish him more than he already is - but we don't need legislation. More kids have been killed on trampolines in the last year than with automatic firearms, yet there aren't laws stating you can't jump on a trampoline until you are 21. Crazy.

woodybrighton
November 2, 2008, 10:53 AM
it was monumental stupidity not sure the Dad is at fault if he didn't know jack about FA weapons then he'd rely on the people running the range.
they screwed the pooch handed the anti gunners a massive goal with sprinkles on :(

can't blame the anti gunners for using for them it its like looking at an enemy convoy of fuel tankers and you've got a brand new Barrett and a case of those incendiary rounds:mad:

jad0110
November 2, 2008, 11:47 AM
To be plain, thousands of kids die every year in $30 inflatable pools, but no one says jack ####. Unsafe stuff happens every second, many times resulting in death. Guns are one of the only things that people react to.

Exactly. When my son was born we received a book titled Caring for Your baby and Young Child by the American Academy of Pediatrics. To paraphrase the AAP's position, apparently a 3 foot high fence is sufficient for keeping kids out of a pool, but my 600 pound steel gunsafe is inadequate (therefore there position is that most guns should be banned) :banghead: . I guess they think toddlers know how to properly use a plasma torch. :rolleyes:

I wonder if the goobers at the AAP have ever seen a 3 year old climb a tree - they are like monkeys! :D

JR47
November 2, 2008, 11:59 AM
There are 300 million people in America today. Out of that figure, ONE child has had a fatal accident with an NFA weapon. That's 0.00000033% of the population. The entire, all ages, population. If we're concerned at that level of happenstance, why aren't we legislating medical errors into felonies? They are the leading cause of death after automotive, and slips, trips, and falls. :confused:

armoredman
November 2, 2008, 12:10 PM
RonE, I REALLY hope you're wrong, but I can see that being the "compromise" bill...

MD_Willington
November 2, 2008, 12:19 PM
State Representative Michael Costello, the Newburyport Democrat who co-chairs the Joint Committee on Public Safety and Homeland Security, said yesterday that he plans to draft a bill that would ban anyone younger than age 21 from firing an automatic weapon.

So the Age of recruitment is going to be 21 and not 18 now I guess....

RaisedByWolves
November 2, 2008, 01:58 PM
In regards to my earlier comment about jailing daddio (I wish this board had a quote function.....) The phrase Child endangerment comes to mind.




Years ago people weren't smart enough to place their kids in car seats, the feds made it a law!



People weren't smart enough to know their kids would fall into the pool and drown, Now there are laws in most areas where if you have a pool, you must have a fence.



In most states if you leave your guns lying around and your kid kills himself or someone Else you will be charged.




The point of what I'm saying is that if you dont think for yourself, the govt will think for you and pass a law that you dont want. I dont think I'm putting to big of an idea out there for most people to grasp.


Dont put kids in dangerous situations and all will be better off.



Handing an 8yr old a loaded, full auto micro UZI = putting him in a dangerous situation as has been so sadly demonstrated. The father made the decision, paid the cost of operating and the final result lies firmly on his shoulders, IMO.



Either digest that or the government will force you to.




My parents would have said HELL NO!!!, if I asked for this and I made it through childhood bruised,
and scarred, but alive with their guidance.



Thanks Mom and Dad!

woodybrighton
November 2, 2008, 02:41 PM
exactly right stupid should and does hurt.
Though if the dad was told the micro uzi does'nt have a lot of recoil and junior should be able to handle it:uhoh: Then I would claim he was going by what an "expert" told him. Anyone who's been around fa weapons would know that statement was rubbish. but ask me the difference
between a mustang and a corvette and 'd just give you a blank expression:D

Zoogster
November 2, 2008, 02:47 PM
Give me a break, someone did something foolish.

That it can turn into legislation is just because people here believe that is logical.
Thousands of kids drowned in pools all the time. Yet nobody has banned anyone under 18 from swimming.
Backyard pools do not require a lifeguard to be used.


Don't argue with the logic by using it.
It is stupid. The conclusion is stupid, and anyone proposing such a solution is in some sort of fantasy land.

If someone said pools would require all swimmers be over 18-21 because one parent in many years allowed thier child to drowned everyone would recognize it for what it was.

woodybrighton
November 2, 2008, 03:20 PM
unfortunately it was'nt a pool it was a micro Uzi sub machine gun :banghead:
Most normal people will understand there is a world of difference between pools,bikes,cars etc and military automatic weapons.
If you can't or won't play safe with very dangerous toys the grown ups will take them away:(
Its an easy win for the anti gun types trying to defend "the right" of children to play with machine guns :uhoh: good luck with that one.
personally the only automatic weapons I'd let children shoot would be mounted ones or ones with bipods no risk at all to themselves or others. This was mindlessly stupid and will have consequences:(

RaisedByWolves
November 2, 2008, 09:06 PM
"Give me a break, someone did something foolish.

That it can turn into legislation is just because people here believe that is logical.
Thousands of kids drowned in pools all the time. Yet nobody has banned anyone under 18 from swimming.
Backyard pools do not require a lifeguard to be used.


Don't argue with the logic by using it.
It is stupid. The conclusion is stupid, and anyone proposing such a solution is in some sort of fantasy land.

If someone said pools would require all swimmers be over 18-21 because one parent in many years allowed thier child to drowned everyone would recognize it for what it was."



Ive read this 3X over and I cant make sense out of it.


Care to take this jumble of words and give us something to work with?


.

wep45
November 2, 2008, 09:59 PM
we dont need more regulations...........just bring back good old common sense

RaisedByWolves
November 2, 2008, 10:08 PM
I agree with you there, but unfortunatly, Common sense isint so common anymore.:uhoh:

tpaw
November 2, 2008, 10:27 PM
That being said, giving an 8y/o boy an Uzi is pretty much the stupidest thing I have ever heard done at a range in quite a while. This should have been a simple thing to say no to for even the lousiest parent in the world.

A very poor decision indeed. It's remarkable that no one else was shot. This tragedy will be the heaviest burden that the father and family will carry for the rest of their lives and take to the grave. My prayers go out to the boy and his family.

medmo
November 3, 2008, 04:20 AM
This is a genuine tragedy. Everyone involved is going to carry a heavy load for the rest of their lives. Those that want more restrictions/bans will take advantage of this like they have with all other tragedies in the past. I'm sure there were a series of events that occurred that led to this outcome. I can't believe that someone consciously did nothing while an 8 yr old was shooting full auto sub guns for the first time with an apparently full magazine. If the father was novice to full auto sub guns he wouldn't be aware of the hazards. Pray for the family and all of those involved.

zminer
November 3, 2008, 09:48 AM
DeathByCactus: Who are you to tell people what they may allow their kids to do? What if your friend had a gay son? Would you insist that the son wasn't allowed to be gay until he was eighteen?

Uh, what does being gay have to do with anything related to this story? DeathByCactus simply asserted that he felt there should be a ban on shooting NFA weapons before age 18.

In regards to this specific incident, it seems obvious that there needs to be some sort of change to ensure that events where NFA weapons are being used are safe. Is that something we can agree on? Whether that's a requirement that parents accompany children to the firing line, or that an instructor holds the gun along with the child, or something. Obviously something went wrong here, and to do nothing seems willfully irresponsible.

I'm not saying that the reaction needs to be a ban on NFA weapon use for those under 18, but this incident has clearly shown some cracks in the edifice of whatever laws and rules currently apply. Those cracks need to be addressed, or this could happen again - a very scary thought. Those who do not learn from their mistakes are destined to repeat them.

doc2rn
November 3, 2008, 10:05 AM
Bullets dont discriminate and they are very unforgiving. CSS (see below)

woodybrighton
November 3, 2008, 11:40 AM
common sense would assume people wouldn't be allowed to shoot fa weapons that they couldn't control.
that failed and a child died claiming it was just unlucky won't wash
you trip and fall and break your leg on my indoor archery thats unlucky.
you get shot by an arrow I have been irresponsible as I'm the range captain doesn't matter how much of an idiot you've been I was not doing my job.
run public abseils for charity number of people who have assured me they can put a harness on and make a complete hash of it the first time. Thats fine as we check and check and make safety paramount. shooting is a fairly safe sport whoever ran this range screwed up big time

Phil DeGraves
November 3, 2008, 01:10 PM
What about the seven year old girl that got killed by a golf ball that was hit by her older brother? Should we ban golf for minors now too?

7 Yr Old La Girl Dies; Tragically Hit by Golf Ball
Friday, 31 October 2008




WWL-TV

VACHERIE, LOUISIANA



A Thibodaux family is struggling to cope with the loss of their only daughter, who died two weeks after being hit in the head by a golf ball while playing outside her home, her grandmother Claire Gauthreaux said.



Casey Gauthreaux, 7, a first-grader at St. Joseph Elementary Catholic School, was in the yard at the family’s 40 Arpent Road home in Thibodaux when the “freak accident” occurred.

The ball was hit by Casey’s older brother Andrew, 14, a student at E.D. White Catholic High School and an avid golfer, Claire said.

The Oct. 12 blow was unintentional.

The injury Casey endured was only the beginning of the family’s suffering, however.

On a Web site for families facing challenges, www.caringbridges.org, the child’s mother, Martha Rahm Gauthreaux, gives an account of how Casey was rushed to Thibodaux Regional Medical Center and then to Ochsner Medical Center in Jefferson Parish.

“She underwent surgery due to a large amount of bleeding on her brain,” Martha Gauthreaux writes. “She did well in the surgery. The hematoma was removed, and the doctors said that her brain looked normal.”

Neither Martha Gauthreaux nor her husband, Kevin, returned calls Wednesday, although Claire Gauthreaux confirmed the information contained on the site is correct.

The hopeful mother journaled Casey’s daily progress, thanking well-wishers for their prayers and informing them of developments. Casey’s arms and legs were moving. The doctors said children are resilient.

The publicly posted journal charts the family’s ups and downs along with the changes in the comatose Casey’s condition, climaxing with Martha Gauthreaux’s heartbreaking entry from Saturday.

“Kevin and I had to make the hardest decision ever,” the journal reads. “We are taking her off the vent tomorrow. Knowing how much Casey loved life, we knew this would not be fair to her to live the rest of her life like this.

“As I look at her, I know she is not there any longer. When I thought she was giving me ‘sweet eyes,’ I realize now she was telling me she was going to be OK, and I needed to let her go.”

Casey died Sunday.

Her funeral was Wednesday.

This week educators at St. Joseph’s, according to parents whose children attend the school, have been busy comforting and explaining to classmates what happened to their friend.

Claire Gauthreaux, 79, Vacherie’s former U.S. Mail carrier, is better known as “Miss P’nut.”

She said she is still reeling from the death of her grandson, Army Sgt. Jay Gauthreaux, who was killed nearly two years ago while serving in Iraq.

“I guess God must really like me, He gives me two losses like this,” she said, adding that the more prayers people can offer for the family the better.

The family is devastated over Casey’s loss and equally distraught over Andrew’s unintended role in it, she added.

They seek to comfort the teen and help him understand that when accidents such as this happen sometimes there is no fault, just fate, she said.

As for her, she’s taking solace in a story involving Casey’s younger brother, 4-year-old Luke.

The boy’s preschool classmates, she said, flock to the windows when a plane passes and wave toward the sky to tell Casey goodbye.

“She is an angel now,” Claire Gauthreaux said. “She is with the angels.”

Accidents happen.

Wheeler44
November 3, 2008, 01:27 PM
A whole lotta li'l kids die in car accidents every year. Maybe we should sponsor a bill to make transporting the tikes in automobiles illegal.

woodybrighton
November 3, 2008, 01:27 PM
accidents happen
not with machine guns though .
Thats the difference its an automatic weapon its designed to kill. What happened shouldn't have happened

TEDDY
November 3, 2008, 01:30 PM
I have been to MG shoots in Maine and New Hampshire.and Mass.the mini usi
is a very small gun.I fired a mac 12 in 380 and they had a strap on front so you could hold the muzzel down.and the instuctor/owner held your shoulders so you would not lose control.I did not need it as I have fired thompsons and Reisings in the service.
The story I got was the father was talking to another person and the instructor stepped back.There probably was an error in judgement but not carelessment.I have handled a lot of MG and the Usi and Macs are fast rpms.
causing the muzzel to rise quickly.there has not been a death from an MG since the 20/30s.and range accidents are very very scarce.:rolleyes::uhoh:

K3
November 3, 2008, 02:37 PM
This will sound callous, but oh well.

It was one incident with one fatality. Statistically insignificant. Freedom comes with risks. More laws and restrictions equal less freedom. The statistical insignificance of this event makes it a no-brainer to me that there should be no changes in the law in the direction of more regulation. Maintain the freedom that exists.

The father is undoubtedly suffering enough. Jailing him would serve what purpose exactly? Same with the folks operating the event. Everyone else should move along. The father will not be able to for some time if ever. Probably the same for other folks who saw everything firsthand.

If it was my son, I would not change my tune. I would not call for more regulations.

I detest kneejerk reactions every time something happens. Life has a lot of potential snares, a lot of risk, and a lot of danger. We shouldn't try and regulate/ban every behavior in the hopes of eliminating all risks at the expense of freedoms.

Ah, but the nanny state mentality sure is pervasive and widespread. Damn shame.

Carlos Cabeza
November 3, 2008, 02:59 PM
Yeah, I'm in the "poor judgement" crowd. You have to jump through all kinds of hoops to OWN an NFA weapon, why would you let a BOY shoot one ? It's hard enough for a grown man to control one.....

tpaw
November 3, 2008, 07:09 PM
Phil DeGraves Posts: What about the seven year old girl that got killed by a golf ball that was hit by her older brother? Should we ban golf for minors now too?

Poor analogy. First of all, no one is talking about a banning full auto weapons, only an age requirement, and secondly, hitting a golf ball is not the same as an 8 year boy firing a full auto weapon.

newkahrman
November 3, 2008, 07:46 PM
Wow, this brought tears to my eyes. I have a seven year old son and can't imagine life without him. This is a terrible tragic event that could have been avoided. The instructor should have at least held the magazine. I personally would not let my son fire anything other than single shot, but that is just me. When faced with a tragedy we feel the need to play the blame game. The father will be punished for the rest of his life whether or not he goes to prison. My prayers are with all involved.

cassandrasdaddy
November 3, 2008, 08:31 PM
When faced with a tragedy we feel the need to play the blame game. The father will be punished for the rest of his life whether or not he goes to prison. My prayers are with all involved.


particularly well said!

Phil DeGraves
November 4, 2008, 09:41 AM
Phil DeGraves Posts: What about the seven year old girl that got killed by a golf ball that was hit by her older brother? Should we ban golf for minors now too?

Poor analogy. First of all, no one is talking about a banning full auto weapons, only an age requirement, and secondly, hitting a golf ball is not the same as an 8 year boy firing a full auto weapon.

The point is, it was an accident and as K3 said, statistically insignificant, as is the golf ball death. To pass laws against it would be moronic and would not have an effect precisely because this happens so rarely.

Sheesh!

MyGreenGuns
August 12, 2011, 03:45 PM
I hate to revive yet ANOTHER old thread, but this is the first I've heard of this. I wasn't going to post, but since its currently on the TV (watching now), I figure its still relavent.

Dont punish the father. He will be tortured by this event for the rest of his life. A lawsuit will waste time and money, nothing good can come from this. If anyone should be allowed to punish him it should be the pro-gun crowd. He put a media blemish on our safety record. He was the chief of police, he should have known better.

Dont punish the venue. They dont have a cause to restrict you. You signed a waiver, stating you knew the dangers. Plus, I havent been to one yet!

Dont add new laws, the ones we have are ok. Keeping people from owning guns til 18 (ideally) keeps them out of schools. Keeping them from OWNING them does not mean keeping them from SHOOTING one. If you are under 18, you are still legally your parents responsibility. Parents should assess the dangers before sending the kid in to 'play' with weapons. And parents should shoulder the responsibility if the child injures anyone/anything.

I have a 10yo daughter. Before I handed her ANY weapon to shoot, I need to make sure she understands how to operate/hold it. She needs to understand how the gun will react when she pulls the trigger. If I have not fired the weapon, she will DEF not fire the weapon. I will still be the one next to her (maybe even holding the weapon) as she shoots. Someone else can video it, prob why I have no video. :(

I have a tendency to start new shooters and/or new guns with a single round at a time. I offended a 6' 6" friend of mine when I gave him a single round for the S&W 500. He fired the gun properly, but underestimated the recoil. In his attempt to keep ahold of the gun he clicked the trigger again. He was glad I only gave him one round as he didn't want to replace the roof at the range.

To the people suggesting golf, pools and cars be banned. We are not talking about recreation or transportation, we are talking about weapons. Life itself is dangerous, but extreme caution must be used when firearms are concerned.

A little long-winded but I wanted to hit all the points.

General Geoff
August 12, 2011, 03:50 PM
To the people suggesting golf, pools and cars be banned. We are not talking about recreation or transportation, we are talking about weapons.
Firearms are a form of recreation for anyone who enjoys target shooting.

kragluver
August 12, 2011, 03:56 PM
we dont need more regulations...........just bring back good old common sense

Unfortunately, there will always be politicians who think we should legislate common sense. As we well know, this is impossible and is only being done for political grand-standing.

SharpsDressedMan
August 12, 2011, 04:31 PM
FWIW, I always questioned why it was o.k. to ask a guy 18-20 years old to possibly die for his country, but not allow him to own the same weapons he is asked to hold while he defends his country. Seems like a bit of a double standard.

parsimonious_instead
August 12, 2011, 05:16 PM
I don't see any real hard lower age limit for firing a gun, even full auto. Ear and eye protection are a must - if those items can't fit on a kid, then that youngster shouldn't be firing the weapon.
Having sufficient coordination, limb strength/length and overall maturity to fire the weapon factor in, but those "metrics" are up to the parent to determine if they're adequate to safely handle the gun.
If a weapon is tripod or pintle mounted, so much the better.
A really young girl is seen firing a tripod mounted .30 cal at some sort of MG shoot in Oklahoma. The weapon looked really stable, she had protection on, and daddy was close by checking her overall arc of fire. I had no issue with this, despite her possibly being four years old.
A .10 second internet search for "children killed by ATVs" turned up a pretty horrible number. There is an advocacy group calling for tighter restrictions on childrens' use of ATVs, but I'm only pointing this out to show how the fact that because this was a death due to a "machine gun" there's somehow a much more strident hue and cry to "do something" than there is about youth injury and death by ATV.

ErikO
August 12, 2011, 05:39 PM
Wow, holy necomancy!

You can't legislate good parenting. The father in question has had the last three years to live with his grief, why put us through this thread again? Any new info?

The NFA is restrictive enough.

FIVETWOSEVEN
August 12, 2011, 05:40 PM
First off I don't believe anyone should be able to fire a weapon that is full auto unless they are over 18, I think the ban unless 21 is a little extreme. Second off, I am still amazed someone would let an 8 year old fire a F/A Uzi.

I know a few kids that have fired a automatic weapon that were younger than 13. The first gun I fired at like age 4 was a full auto M60. I do agree though that you should be able to fire full autos under 21 consider both the military has kids at 17 firing full autos and you can actually own a full auto under 21 if you actually have the money and a private transfer is possible. This isn't a legal issue considering how many kids fire full auto without a problem, this is actually the only time I've heard of a kid being killed by a full auto, THIS IS A COMMON SENSE ISSUE.

Heretic
August 12, 2011, 09:50 PM
A 9mm's high powered?

FIVETWOSEVEN
August 12, 2011, 10:40 PM
It can go through walls, doors, homes so to antis thats the most dangerous thing ever created.

wally
August 13, 2011, 12:15 AM
Its a tragedy, what was supposed to be a fun outing ends in disaster -- same as any summer time swimming accident. You want to ban water? Happening by default around here :(

Fishslayer
August 13, 2011, 12:36 PM
DeathByCactus: Who are you to tell people what they may allow their kids to do? What if your friend had a gay son? Would you insist that the son wasn't allowed to be gay until he was eighteen?



What if the kid lost control of the weapon and killed numerous bystanders instead of just himself?

Somebody else's gay son is their business.
Allowing untrained & unqualified people to operate FA weapons in my presence becomes mine.

FIVETWOSEVEN
August 13, 2011, 12:43 PM
Thousands of kids every year fire full autos without a problem, then one kids does it with a submachine gun that was way too much recoil for a child to handle especially at age 8. This was whoever owns the gun's fault or whoever was supervising that gun. It was his judgment error.

firemanstrickland
August 13, 2011, 12:49 PM
Peanuts TOO we gotta ban peanuts quick!! they kill way to many people!!!!!

Sky
August 13, 2011, 01:06 PM
Until someone loses a child they have no understanding of the pain and suffering the family goes through. Stupid unsupervised mistake but I would imagine the father would like to crawl into a hole and die.

FLAvalanche
August 13, 2011, 01:42 PM
5 gallon buckets kill more kids than automatic weapons. Ban those too...

TexasRifleman
August 13, 2011, 01:43 PM
Well since this happened 3 years ago and NFA weapons are still legal to buy I think we can put to rest the idea that this incident will cause significant fallout.

This zombie thread is done.

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