"Guns are just tools"


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Nightcrawler
September 15, 2003, 08:59 PM
Hear this a lot from a few members. Guns are just tools, they say. They just use whatever works. These folks often prefer plane-jane guns like Glocks.

But I suspect that there is more to the story....

I mean, c'mon, guys. Guns are JUST tools? You don't think they're the least bit special or cool? Then why are you hanging around a gun forum? Do you also belong to online forums about blenders, lawnmowers, cars, hammers, electronics, and all of the other "tools" you own?

I think we all have to admit. Firearms rock. :cool:

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Mark Tyson
September 15, 2003, 09:04 PM
They are unique tools. Because of government policies guns have become symbols of freedom. To those other people out there, they are symbols of crime. Unfortunately the latter view seems to be taking hold as more and more people grow up never having experienced the gun culture.

BryanP
September 15, 2003, 09:36 PM
Do you also belong to online forums about blenders, lawnmowers, cars, hammers, electronics, and all of the other "tools" you own?

Oh, I don't know. I'll bet you could find forums about lawnmowers, (http://www.antiquetractors.com/cgi-bin/tforum.cgi?f=gforum) cars, (http://cartalk.cars.com/board/ubbthreads.php) hammers, (http://www.geocities.com/thumbandhammer/forum.htm) and electronics (http://www.hometheaterforum.com/) if you try hard enough. And you know, if you dig around you might even find one where you can talk about blenders. (http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/appl/) :D

I can guarantee you that no matter what your hobby or interests, there are people who are going to look at you and say "Cool!!" and there are others who will look at you and say "Uh, yeah. Sure. Whatever floats yer boat bud."

Standing Wolf
September 15, 2003, 09:36 PM
Some tools are just tools; some tools are truly elegant. It would be an extremely bad idea to try to steal even a rusty, bent old screw driver from me.

greyhound
September 15, 2003, 09:40 PM
I have been especially flaky today (thinking there's 52 states and all:rolleyes: ), but doesn't it take a major war for there to be a real appreciation of the gun culture?

Think back to "Unintended Consequences", with the WW I vets hauling home all those firearms.

I may make no sense, but it seems that depending on your firearms for your very survival might have some effect on your view of RKBA.

Combined with the fact that people used to have to hunt for survival, you see a much different attitude about firearms.

And yep, Mark Tyson, if you hear about guns today in the media, they are mostly portrayed as the tools of crime.

Rembrandt
September 15, 2003, 09:45 PM
..."it's a poor workman that blames his tools"....

...I view mine as collectible artistic metal sculptures with great historical significance....
;)

RKBA 4 Ever
September 15, 2003, 09:52 PM
A tool?

I don't pick up a hammer and practice driving nails. I don't pick up a saw and practice cutting lumber. I don't pick up a screwdriver and... well, you get the picture.

I do however pick up my pistol and practice shooting. I wouldn't say it is a tool in the conventional sense of the term, but when it is used to complete a "task" such as defending my life then I hope it is a tool that I use correctly and afficiently.

P95Carry
September 15, 2003, 09:59 PM
Loosely speaking, yeah ....... a gun is a tool ....... it is a piece of machinery, finely engineered to act as a launch platform for a projectile.

It is what goes beyond that that makes it more than just a tool. In almost all cases, the engineering contained within is in itself something to appreciate ....... there are overall esthetic factors, and then all the ''sporting'' connotations.

By definition then ... for me ..... a tool but, one that has way more ambiance and versatility than a superficial appraisal might yield.

I'll stake my life on that!!!:)

4v50 Gary
September 15, 2003, 10:22 PM
A tool that is either symbolic of a free man or of a oppressive government.

Nightcrawler
September 15, 2003, 10:31 PM
And how many put custom grips on their cordless drill? Who takes pictures of their belt sander and posts them on the internet? Anybody here every get all excited at the purchase of a new refridgerator and post on a web board about it?

Guns are one of those things that inspire real pride of ownership in people, much like cars (though I'm not into cars myself, there's a HUGE industry around customizing and personalizing automobiles).

10-Ring
September 15, 2003, 10:44 PM
Guns for me are more than tools. If they were only tools to me, I'd only have one :D

Doc
September 15, 2003, 11:44 PM
yes "just" tools:
think compound, sliding miter saw
NOT hammer...

GSB
September 15, 2003, 11:55 PM
Guns are tools, but tools in the same vein as cars or motorcycles or planes. Cars and motorcycles and planes are "just transportation devices", but they also hold a romantic beauty for those of us attuned to such things. So it is with guns. Not all guns. Not all cars (no one will ever call a Chrysler K a thing of beauty). But some guns. Some cars. Some motorcycles.

I don't know if I'd want to drive an Auburn to work every day, or keep a gold-inlay Colt Navy for a carry piece, but they sure as heck are pretty.

Nightcrawler
September 15, 2003, 11:58 PM
think compound, sliding miter saw

Ah, Doc. So, is there a popular web forum promoting the safe and responsible use of compound, sliding miter saws? Do you have yours engraved? :D

Futo Inu
September 16, 2003, 02:10 AM
"And how many put custom grips on their cordless drill? Who takes pictures of their belt sander and posts them on the internet?"

Tee hee. Lol.

Skunkabilly
September 16, 2003, 02:14 AM
Guns can be anything...if nothing else they are merely a reflection of their owner.

Roadkill Coyote
September 16, 2003, 06:55 AM
If stupid and evil men wanted to ban yoyos as much as they want to ban guns, we would be using this forum to discuss "walking the dog". Sometimes you can judge the value of a tool by the people who hate it.

Mike Irwin
September 16, 2003, 10:27 AM
Yep, guns are just tools.

Just like my hand planes.

But I REALLY REALLY REALLY like my hand planes!

Zach S
September 16, 2003, 10:52 AM
Guns are just tools, they say. They just use whatever works. These folks often prefer plane-jane guns like Glocks. I'm in that group. I dont like glocks.

But, like with whatever has "craftsman," "stanley," "husky," "kobalt," "black and decker," "Dewalt," ect, stamped into it or painted on it. I still enjoy using them, even if I'm not really doing anything.

Carlos Cabeza
September 16, 2003, 10:55 AM
Yep, just tools. Only some don't care and purchase "Made in China" and some insist on MAC, MATCO or SNAP-ON. :D

Matthew_Q
September 16, 2003, 11:03 AM
My gun is a POWER TOOL.


Actually, I think of my firearms as tools and sporting equipment.

BigG
September 16, 2003, 11:15 AM
Guns ARE power at the most elemental level.

Majic
September 16, 2003, 11:30 AM
Some may refer guns as tools, but my guns represent untold countless hours of fun. I've never had to shoot a human (now that would take the fun out of it), but all the uses and aspects of my guns today have been nothing but fun for me.

C.R.Sam
September 16, 2003, 11:42 AM
Those who enter nail driving contests practice.
Same with wood chopping and axes.
Assorted clases of racing belt sanders.

Many things that are used to make a living are also used for sport and/or become the focus of collections.

Firearms, edged weapons etc have over the centuries been used for sport, collectable items, means of making a living.....

And a means of remaing free, alive etc.

Sam

Fezwig
September 16, 2003, 12:08 PM
I have a friend at work that is into RC trucks. He is always on the forum downloading movies of other people's trucks and fantasizes about building a track in his backyard. And he thinks that I am the weird one.

Fezwig

P.S. I think he has spent more on his trucks than I have on all of my guns combined.


P.P.S You're right, Guns do rock!!<BG>

:neener: :neener:

Futo Inu
September 16, 2003, 02:04 PM
Welcome, Fezwig!

Double Naught Spy
September 16, 2003, 02:41 PM
Guns are just tools, no doubt. Granted, some guns are cool tools. Being cool, however, does not mean it isn't a tool.

In my regular tool box, I have some really boring tools and some really neat tools, even cool, but they are just tools.

Some tools are fun. I know a woodworker hobbyist with really expensive and precise hand woodworking tools. Granted he makes some neat things, but the joy for him is in the hours of creation, not in the finished product. So, his tools represent enjoyment as well.

Keep in mind that nuclear weapons are tools as well.

To be honest, I am disturbed by folks who consider their firearms as some sort of living entities for which they give names and seem to experience some sort of personal relationship with the gun. Strangely, those same people don't name their underwear even though their relationship with that article of clothing is undoubtedly MUCH more personal.

Nightcrawler
September 16, 2003, 02:48 PM
Well, if you don't have any special attachment to your guns, why hang out on a gun board?

Unless you belong to an underwear forum as well.... :neener:

sm
September 16, 2003, 03:15 PM
Agree with Sam.

Guns , among other things are "tools".
I'm always reminded of "Metal & Wood by Dennis form TFL ( I couldn't find it ! )

Carlos Cabeza
September 16, 2003, 05:10 PM
Since re1973 has given proper credit, And since Drjones liked Bill Whittle's
"Guns and Freedom" O' gods of the copybook cut and paste I summon thee.......................
METAL and WOOD

It is a rare person who does not attach some sort of value or emotion to some physical object or to an event. A home becomes more than a building. A statue of the Virgin Mary, a crucifix, a flag or a song, or even a photograph can stir emotions greater than the value of the material item.

I have a piece of paper showing I served in the military until I was discharged honorably. But, oh, the memories that piece of paper conjures up. The friends, the fun times. The bad times. The times when we were bound closer to strangers than to our own families and, in frightening chaos, our lives hung by a thread. Many of our friends died far from home. Ask us about the feeling of “American soil” upon returning to the land we loved. Ask those returning soldiers about America.
Remember the old, faintly humorous band of American Legionnaires, wearing out-dated military uniforms straining at the buttons. But, God how proudly they marched. Grinning, waving to friends and families, and always, always “The Flag!” Ask them if the flag is mere cloth, I dare you.

See the elderly lady sitting in a lawn chair watching the fourth of July parade. Three flags carefully folded some forty years ago into triangles now rest in her lap - one for each lost son. Ask her if those flags are mere cloth, I dare you.
Look at the old man quietly crying, leaning against the Iwo Jiima Memorial at Arlington Cemetery. As he turns to you, smiles with some embarrassment, and says in a choked whisper, “I was there.” Ask him, “Is it just metal and clay?” Ask him. I dare you.
The Wall. My God, the Wall. See the young man lightly tracing the name of his father there inscribed. Ask him if its just rock. Ask him. I dare you.
My guns? They’re of little real value compared to my family and my home. They are toys, or tools, or both. But what those guns represent to me is greater than all of us, greater than myself, my family, indeed greater than our entire generation. What could be of such value?
The freedom of man to live within civil, self-imposed limitations rather than under restrictions placed upon him by a ruler or a ruling class.
Imagine the daring, the bravery of a few men to declare they intended to create a
new country, independent of the burden of their established Rulers!
Those men we call our forefathers were brilliant men. They could have
maneuvered themselves into positions of influence within the structure of the times, but they did not. They struggled to free themselves from tyranny. They wrote the Declaration of Independence. And they backed up their words and ideals with metal and wood.
They knew the dangers of such dreams and actions. They knew it was a frightening and dangerous venture into the unknown when they dared reach beyond their grasp for a vision - for an ideal. But they dared to dedicate themselves to achieve Liberty and Freedom for their children, and their children’s children, through the generations.
Imagine the dreams and yearnings of centuries finally being reduced to the written word. The Rights of “We the People!” instead of the “Powers of the Monarchy.” Our forefathers dared to create a new government - a new form of government. And they knew that any organization has, as its first and foremost goal, its continued existence. Second only to that it strives to increase its power. It plots, it devises, it maneuvers to achieve control over its environment - over its subjects.
Our Forefathers decided to make America different from any country, anywhere, at any time in the entire history of the entire world. This country, this new nation of immigrants, would be based upon the concept that people could rule themselves better than any single person or small group of persons could rule them.
Other countries have had outstanding documents with guarantees for its citizens - but the citizens have become enslaved. How, these great men pondered, can we ensure this new government will remain subject to the will of the People?
They wanted limits upon this new government. Therefore, our forefathers wrote limitations into the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. And one of those Rights was that metal and wood, as the final power of the people, would secure this country for the future generations.
Metal and wood were the means by which we won our freedom.
Metal and wood were the means by which we kept our freedom.
Metal and wood may be the means by which we regain our freedom.
Metal and wood are the final power of the people. Take away the metal and wood and the people become powerless - they can only beg, they supplicate for favors.
We are unique in our ability to rule ourselves but we are letting it slip away.
Today we compromise. We try to appease man’s insatiable appetite for power by throwing him bits of our freedoms. But the insatiable appetite for power can not be appeased. The freedoms we feed him only make us weaker and him stronger. We must conquer him and again ensure the “Blessings of Liberty” won for us by our forefathers. We must be ready to use metal and wood again, for if we are ready, truly ready, we may be able to conquer the monster with words - for in its heart it is a coward. But if we continue to feed the monster our freedoms, we will become too weak to win, to weak even to fight, and we will become a conquered people. We will have sold ourselves and our future generations into servitude. If words fail us, we will use metal and wood, we will regain what we have lost, we will achieve what we seek, we will guarantee the America of our forefathers for the future generations.

So you see, our guns are more than metal and wood. They are our heritage of freedom. They are the universally understood symbol that the government, no matter how big and strong it may be, answers to us! They are the tools we will use to prevent tyranny in the land of our forefathers and our children. So, ask me what my guns mean to me. Ask my children what our guns mean to them. Ask us. I dare you.

Jesse H
September 16, 2003, 05:15 PM
Um...I *almost* love my Craftsmen tools as much as my guns.

Mike Irwin
September 16, 2003, 05:32 PM
Hey Fezwig,

Maybe you should go over to your friend's house?

Those RC cars & trucks make great moving targets...

:)

Fezwig
September 16, 2003, 05:46 PM
Thanks, Futo. I was around for a while on TFL.

Mike, I think that is a great idea. I will have to supprise him with it on a nice Saturday morning.

Fezwig

Ala Dan
September 16, 2003, 05:53 PM
guns are "tools" that I work best with!:D :rolleyes: :uhoh:

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.r.A. Life Member

P95Carry
September 16, 2003, 06:15 PM
Carlos - that is one great copy'n'paste!:)

BluesBear
September 16, 2003, 07:29 PM
Yes my guns are "tools". And I give them the same respect that my father taught me for all tools. All of my tools are kept in their proper place, yet ready for any job that comes along. I keep all of my tools clean. I always try to use the right tool for the current task. I am proud of all of my tools no matter what brand name is on them, be it Craftsman, Snap On, Fender, Gibson, Peavey, Shure, Colt, Marlin, Smith & Wesson, Ruger, Schrade, Wilkinson, Oster or Kitchen Aid. And I pity the fool that tries to take ANY of them away from me!

Nightcrawler
September 16, 2003, 07:34 PM
I did not mean to imply, folks, that guns WEREN'T tools. What I was (and am) challenging is the notion that they're simply tools like any other tools we may have, and there's nothing special about them to us.

If that's the case, boys and girls, I doubt many of us would belong to a gun board. I mean, I have a ratcheting screwdriver, but I don't belong to a web forum for screwdriver users and fans. I haven't bothered to learn the history and development of the screwdriver, few people get into Phillips Head vs. Flat Head debates, and I don't practice driving screws for fun.

*shrug*

gryphon
September 16, 2003, 07:41 PM
I don't come to the gun board because I own a gun, matter of fact I was a member at TFL before I had a firearm. I come to the boards here because I like the people.

It just so happens that most of the people here also own a firearm and are similarly minded as myself.

sm
September 16, 2003, 07:41 PM
Carlos Cabeza-Thank you!

Duh, couldn't find it myself. I have it somewhere...but I've put in a new HDD here at home. Actually gotten pretty good at "crashin' HDD of late...at school if they want somethin' torn up give it to me :D [supposed to be fixin' but I got the tearin' up part down pat]. You know how long it takes to get "critical updates' updated on XPP ? [ don't get me started - but I will get past this 'need' for "crash-dows" someday...gotta appease the school though. Thinkin' penguins myself better way to go ;)

But--gotta a collection of HDD to use my "tools" on....he he ...45 ACP vs. Western Digital, Caviar...et al :D

Carlos Cabeza
September 16, 2003, 08:01 PM
Nightcrawler, I Didn't mean to give the thread a kink in it. I have tremendous respect for tools. You see, this is how I make my living. The definition of a tool is a device that facilitates or makes work easier. I know we may downplay the firearm as a tool to make it appear to be an inanimate object to make the gun grabbers realize the stupidity and facetiousness of their claim that guns are the cause of our plight. I strongly feel just as Dennis put it into words for me. Just ask me..........I dare you !:cool: re1973, I wish I could write like that. I am glad you appreciated the gesture. :cool:

280PLUS
September 16, 2003, 09:14 PM
but every once in a while i really have to fight the urge to pull out my snubbie and hammer a nail in with it...

:neener:

too much simpsons, i know,,,

"homey, put out that light."

"OK" BANG!!

:D

Tamara
September 17, 2003, 12:49 PM
Some guns are just tools. Others are sporting equipment, collectables, antiques, or objets d' art. Some serve multiple functions.

"All cars are transportation."
"All stamps are just to mail letters."
"All coins exist to work vending machines." ;)

JDSlack
September 17, 2003, 01:07 PM
Interesting discussion. I am of two minds on this topic (some say I don't have any mind at all, but what's my wife know). I was a cop for a lot of years. Carried a H&K USP .40 S&W for the last several years. I viewed that weapon as a tool of my trade. I was proficient with and had confidence in it. I would bet that a professional carpenter would feel the same about the hammers and saws he uses in his job. I chose that weapon because, at the time it was the largest caliber my Dept. allowed, it fit my hand and I was sure that if I needed it to fulfill its intended function, it wouldn't fail me, and it never did. But it was not a thing of beauty, except in a utilitarian sense.

I'm retired now. I carry a Colt Combat Commander whereever I go. I not only have confidence in it, I have confidence in my ability to use it. I also think that it is an excellent example of form and function expressed in a single unit. Every time I shoot it, or field strip it, I am in awe of the genius of its designer. I also have numerous other pistols and revolvers, mostly large frame S&Ws. I purchased these because I admire the design, and for the beauty of their function. These guns are not mere tools to me any more, but objects I enjoy using and owning.

It would be the same if I played the violin, and owned a Stradivarius or an Amati. If I was playing in a symphony orchestra, they would be tools, but they'd also be works of art, to be admired for the skill of the maker and the beauty of their design.

Nightfall
September 17, 2003, 06:39 PM
Many guns are just tools. Really, really cool tools. :)

JohnHenry
September 17, 2003, 06:50 PM
Guns ARE just tools, but they are the most important tool because they tool of keeping freedom, therefore they deserve more respect and admiration than a hammer or a saw

XLMiguel
September 17, 2003, 07:23 PM
The mind is the weapon, a firearm is just one of many objects that may be used as a defensive or offensive "tool".

It is important to have the right tool for the job.

It is a poor workman that blames his tools.

When the only tool you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

A fool with a tool is still a fool.

Thus endeth the sermon.:D

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