[Bergeron]

There I was, sitting in front of my computer, dry firing my USP. Front sight, press. Repeat. After a while, I decided to open the action. It was only possible to pull the slide back about halfway. Hmmmm. This is not supposed to happen. Well, then, I guess I'll field strip it and see what the problem is. After I remove the slide from the frame, I hear a piece of the gun fall off and hit the floor.:eek: Uh-oh. I inspect the part and discover that it is the piece that the hammer hits, that then hits the firing pin. I don't know what it is called. At the end of piece that is near the firing pin, it looks as if a piece of metal got torn off. Luckily, the gun a lifetime warranty, and now it is up to me to find the nearest repair shop, find out why this happened, and get it repaired.

Wish me luck.

[Sven]

Were you using a snap cap?

[Bergeron]

Nope, sure wasn't.

This pistol has got to have at least 30-40 thousand dry firings w/o snap caps put through it.

[Kahr carrier]

Hell that sucks ,but luckily it has the warranty,I would call H&K they might have a local service center you could take it to .Good Luck.:)

[denfoote]

Now my son, you know you should have purchased that Glock when you had the chance!!!:evil:

[New_comer]

The USP has a one piece firing pin, as shown in diagram
http://www.hkpro.com/uspcompactint.jpg

It seems you've broken it's firing pin. :eek:

Been waiting so long to read about one actually occuring.

Would appreciate if you could post pics so that we could analyze where its weakpoint is...

[10-Ring]

That sucks! :what: Keep us posted as you get it repaired.

[OF]

I've heard it told that USP's are prone to breaking firing pins if excessively dry-fired without a snap-cap in place. 40 thousand+ dry-fires probably qualifies as excessive :)

Use a cap when it comes back and you'll be fine. Get a good cap that doesn't dent easily, like the Azoom stuff from Dillon.

- Gabe

[Nathaniel Firethorn]

Exact same thing happened to me.

Try to find the firing pin aftermarket. HK is ROTTEN about spare parts.

- pdmoderator

[owen]

uh, i think you found the compromise :-)

[Humble Texan]

Try to find the firing pin aftermarket. HK is ROTTEN about spare parts.

Hmmm, not my experience.

Needed a new slide release. Called my dealer and he gave me a name at HK. I called, asked for the part and got it in four days.

Before going after market, I would call and order what you need. You may have the same experience as I did.

[Nathaniel Firethorn]

I'd like to have either your dealer or his contacts at HK!

My dealer (HK authorized) has been waiting on parts for two months now. I eventually gave up and got 'em aftermarket.

Whenever I've called HK, their response has been "Go through your dealer!" :rolleyes:

HK customer service: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

- pdmoderator

[Humble Texan]

Did send you the name and number I had. Hope it helps.

[Nathaniel Firethorn]

Got it, thanks! Too quik on the draw there. :D

- pdmoderator

[tetchaje1]

SPC over at HKPro.com also has a substantial number of factory HK parts in stock. They are a bit more pricey then if you go through your dealer, but then again you'll get the parts quickly.

http://www.hkpro.com/spchome.htm

[Bergeron]

Thanks for all the replies guys. I don't have the equipment or the know how to post a picture, but looking at New_comer's drawing, I broke the firing pin right in the middle of that gap that the grey piece sits in. The grey piece fell out it too, BTW. Also, the rest of the firing pin is still in gun.

All my paperwork is up in Baton Rouge, but I'll be able to get the information hopefully by tomorow and find a repair center. I rember hearing about a year ago that Barney's (local range/shop) was a "Certified HK Armorer", that would be convienent.

About the "compromise", does anyone here know how the internal parts are made? MIM, Cast, Forged? Cuz now I have a case against whatever kind of parts those are.

What is really unpleasent about this situation is that I had just had a major ammo shipment come in and was planning on going to about 4 shoots a month for the next couple of months. Oh well.

Scariest thing is that this pistol, being my only centerfire, was my defensive pistol for my apartment, and I stored it in condition 3. Would have been mighty unpleasent to have some criminal in my place and me being unable to pull the slide upon on the gun to load it.

I had tried snap caps before, but they were the clear-see through blue plastic ones, the Pachmayrs. In no time at all, (I dry-fire a LOT), the fake primer on the snap caps was scarred to hell and back from the firing pin and it looked like the snap caps might be more prone to damage from the cap than without it. I guess that was WRONG. The A-Zooms do look nice, will try them out.

I also intend to find out if this was a faulty part, of if they just fail at that many dry fires. Hopefully the part will be faulty. I do note that as much as I love(d) my USP, the Glock is designed for this.

For those taking notes, the pistol is date-coded KH, and was purchased in May 2000. According to http://www.hkpro.com/symbols.htm KH is the equivalent to 1997.

Oh well, I will keep you guys informed on the repair process as it goes along.

[Drjones]

Not a flame or anything, but excessive wear is part of the reason why I don't dry-fire.

Another is because most of the ND's I've read of occur while "dry"-firing.

[45R]

Should have got a GLOCK!!!!:neener: Just kidden. Man I hope you get that fixed soon! This is the first time I have heard of a USP breaking.

Did you rig up your USP to a channel remote. 40K is alot of dryfires!!!!! :)


Shoot Safe

45R

[firestar]

You should have gotten a Glock because then not only would the internal parts be broken but the slide "rails" would be broke also from having to work the slide every shot! :what:

[Bergeron]

Yeah, I certainly won't be able to talk smack about anyone else's choice of pistol, considering what has happened to mine.

Looking at the piece of the firing pin that fell out of the slide, it looks like the pin made a very clean break almost exactly perpendicular to its long axis. I think that is pretty weird. pdmoderator, is this what your pin looked like when it broke?

[Nathaniel Firethorn]

Bergeron, I believe so. It happened last summer, so I don't really remember that well. Just that the pin and a couple of other things came out of the slide.

BTW, my USP is back from the shop with a variant conversion, target trigger, and adjustable Meprolight sights. Shoots a lot more accurately SA than it did when it was a DAO. Woo-hoo! :D :cool: :D

- pdmoderator

[larryw]

Firing pin broke after only 40K dry firings. Geez, what a POS those HK's are. :rolleyes:

Heard about this happening before. Apparently there were a batch of poorly heat-treated firing pins used a while back. A USP breaking a pin so early in life makes me think that you got one.

If you need HK parts, don't call the factory, call Fountain Firearms (http://www.fountainfirearms.com/). They stock justabout everything and get it to you fast. That's who HK told me to call when I wanted to buy the ambi control kit, had it in two days (the rep at HK told me which part numbers I needed when I spoke with him. When I called FF, the guy I spoke to knew the part numbers without looking them up).

But, in spite of the lifetime warranty, due to shipping, it will probably be less expensive (and certainly faster) to fix the firing pin yourself. And with your luck and the way you abuse your gun, you better buy a couple firing pins :D (you bought the right gun, my friend, and I'll bet you have a smooth trigger stroke!)

Here's how to R&R the USP the firing pin

1. Unload gun.
2. Remove slide (remove barrel and spring).
3. Make mental/written note of the orientation of the firing pin block (the thing with the quadrant end shape visible on the underside of the slide) and of the firing pin (note the flat side at the rear end)
3. Tap out rear roll pin (I tapped it from the top of the slide to the interior). The roll on the pin may need to be slightly spread to ensure a tight fit when reinstalled. Or, use a new roll pin.
4. Firing pin will shift rearward about 1/4" and permit removal of the firing pin block and the coil spring captured beneath.
5. Remove and clean firing pin and firing pin spring.
6. Replace firing pin and spring.
7. With the slide upside down so that the underside is facing up, the rear end of the slide toward you, ensure that the firing pin is properly oriented flat side to your left, positioned about 1/4" to the rear (where the spring places it). You will be able to see into the firing pin block bore that the cutout on the pin is oriented to make the bore clear.
8. Insert the firing pin block spring, followed by the firing pin block in proper orientation. The block will be oriented with quadrant extending to the right and toward you.
9. Slightly insert the roll pin into its hole from the underside of the slide.
10. Now comes the only tricky part. With your left index fingernail, fully depress the firing pin block.
11. With your right little finger, press the firing pin fully into the firing pin bore so that the pin rear end is about flush (watch the orientation.) If you release pressure on one or both pins too soon, the block will tend to rotate the firing pin out of position, requiring you re-set the positions.
12. Nudge the roll pin in as much as you comfortably can with your left middle fingernail.
13. Release pressure from pins (check orientation).
14. Tap pin home (not too far).
15. Reassemble gun.

Oh, and my experience with HK's service has been outstanding.

[New_comer]

I broke the firing pin right in the middle of that gap that the grey piece sits in. The grey piece fell out it too, BTW. Also, the rest of the firing pin is still in gun. The grey thingy is the drop safety plunger (firing pin block). The way it's designed, the firing pin has a slot to accommodate this plunger, which only clears away whenever the trigger is pulled. The firing pin can't move forward unless this plunger has been cleared out the way.

You'll also notice a lever in the trigger group that pushes against this plunger whenever the trigger is pressed some distance, to allow forward movement of the firing pin. There is also a certain depth that the plunger should be depressed to allow the movement of the pin.

That aside, my guess is that metal fatigue took its toll in that channelure. It's not unlike that stress which causes an airplane wing to break off, or a spoon to snap. The cumulative effect of repeated bending stress at this location, where the pin is most pliant, finally wore the metal out, aggravated by the extreme shock of undampened metal-to-metal deceleration.

Solution: ALWAYS USE SNAP CAPS

A-zoom snap caps are the best I've used insofar as longevity is concerned, but there are home-made remedies that could be substituted with equal efficacy in dampening the shock of the pounding that the pin is subjected to everytime we dry-fire.

We must always strive to simulate the firing condition as best as possible (that condition where a bullet is supposed to take the pin's hit) to ensure the longest possible service life from our firearms. :cool:

[Bergeron]

Okay, today I was playing with just the frame. (Note: I did NOT and never have dry-fired the gun without the slide and slide stop in place.)

The safety/decocker did not move from the decocked position. I noticed that the plate that the safety/decocker moves was loose in place and came out easily. :eek: This is the yellow part right behind the safety/decocker in New_comer's picture.


I did not think that I was abusing my pistol. I am deeply disturbed by the last two days, and I don't see how dry-firing could have messed up this plate. Christ, at this rate I'll be lucky to have anything work on this gun by the time I get it to a smith.

I'm not gonna touch this thing again until I get it fixes, I think I learned my lesson.

[Bergeron]

Oh, BTW, no additional pieces/parts fell out of the gun with the plate.

Also, I can get access to a regular film camera, and if someone cares to teach me the ins and outs, I will post pictures.

[New_comer]

Shoot pictures of the trigger group under good lighting, as the backgroud is obviously black. Have them developed, then ask around for a "scanner". That device will digitize your regular pictures to computer-compatible jpeg (*.jpg file) or bitmap (*.bmp file) formats. Store these picture files in floppy disk

Using your computer, post a reply as usual, but look for the "Attach file" field, right below the text/posting window. Use the browse button to select your floppy drive, then select the pic file.

Only one picture could be attached per message, so post several times for the other pictures.

It seems you've pushed in too far, the pin which holds the detent plate in place:

http://www.streetpro.com/usp/detail/hkpix/020.jpg
http://www.streetpro.com/usp/detail/hkpix/021.jpg
http://www.streetpro.com/usp/detail/hkpix/022.jpg

Quit NOW before you start spraying parts all over the place. There are small parts there you'd risk losing the way its falling apart.

Pack everything up and send it to an HK armorer. :( :(

[JohnKSa]

For dryfiring hammer guns, cut a thick piece of scrap leather so it fits in the hammer channel in the back of the slide.

Now, when the hammer falls, it will be cushioned by the leather which will eliminate all metal to metal contact.

I came up with this after the sound of metal-on-metal impact during dryfiring started to worry me.

It's clear that dry-firing stresses a firearm in ways that normal operation does not. The CZ-52 is a perfect example. If dry-fired, the firing pin will break pronto, if it is never dry-fired, the pin lasts indefinitely. Clearly, the dry-firing is stressing some parts of the gun more than the normal firing process.

Most modern guns will tolerate a reasonable amount of dry-firing, but if you're counting your dryfires in the thousands, you'd better start looking at buying some spare parts if you don't want to deal with some downtime.

[New_comer]

BUT,

if you have the guts, and wouldn't mind a broken USP,:banghead: here's my gift to you

Detail stripping of USP (http://www.streetpro.com/usp/detail/dst2.html) :evil:

[Bergeron]

Yup, that's exactly what has happened. The pin is still in the gun, thank goodness. It is pushed out to the right side of the gun, flush with the side that the plate was on. I can move the pin from side to side with finger pressure. Is this normal? I didn't mess with the pin or the plate before the plate came off, and I can't think of any way that the pin would work itself to allow the plate to come off. Really weird. :confused:

I was under the impression that regular dry-fire, execept in .22's and guns specifically recommened against the practice, was an execellent was to maintain and improve pistol skill. This whole process really stinks.

I have no intentions of trying to put anything back together. I have messed the gun up enough as is by myself, I'll pay a professional to make sure it gets done correctly.

[Boats]

I'm sorry, but horror stories like this one make me so glad for my 1911 pistols, where a broken firing pin is but another easily available part from my parts box, or my favorite local gunshop, and four or so minutes of down time once the part is at hand.:cool:

[Handy]

Horror stories?!

The guy finally wore out a firing pin he'd abused 40,000 times! I'll take a BMW with no local dealer before a Ford I bought around the corner.

[Boats]

Oh, come on now!

My father has a Colt GM he bought in 1966 that has seen far more than 40,000 live rounds downrange which is still on its original firing pin. I have a Colt Officer's Model that has fired in excess of 20,000 rounds still on its first firing pin. I do not think either pistol is terribly atypical.

The HK is not like BMW for getting parts as one of my friends found out while trying to have a squeeze cocker problem sorted out on his P7M13, (which is about as far from a DIY pistol repair as one can get.) It is more akin to getting parts for a Moto Guzzi or some other relatively rare motorcycle which has a small factory overseas and a crappy North American distrubution network with little sense of customer service.

A Harley might fail, and might even fail spectacularly, but you are never more than a UPS delivery away from about 96+% of the parts ever made for one in the last 15 years, not some backordered oddity arriving any month now on a slow freighter from Europe.

The horror on the HK in this thread is not that the firing pin broke, it is in how long the pistol will be down because of it.:scrutiny:

[Shake]

Ummmm. . . I've called H&K needing parts and had them delivered within two to three days, no questions asked, no charge, just great service.

Funny how everyone knows it will take H&K months to respond even though they haven't dealt with H&K before. In my experience, that hasn't been the case.

Seriously, if the firearm has had no problems in 40,000 dry fires (with NO snap caps), and who know how many live rounds (are we talking 10,000 rounds here?), is there any surprise that something broke? Every mechanical object will break/fail at sometime or another, especially when abused.

YMMV, IMHO and all that. . .

Shake

[Handy]

40,000 dry fires are not the equivalent to any number of fired rounds. Poor comparison.

[krept]

Gotta have a monster finger after dry firing that much. Hardly "routine" but then again I'm sure that the pins with poor heat treat broke way before that. Either way, hope your pistol is taken care of and up and running again. Things do go wrong, this is why I make it a point to learn how to detail strip all my pistols (all two of them ;) ).

Either way, if the aforementioned instructions don't help, let us know. I have a disassembly vid that I can send to you if you really need it. Not the best, but it worked for me.

[New_comer]

40,000 dry fires are not the equivalent to any number of fired rounds. Poor comparison. Agreed.

Firing live rounds is similar to having a snap cap, or that leather thingy shared earlier: Metal-to-metal impact of the firing pin to its frame is avoided, or at the very least, dampened significantly.

[Boats]

So which is cheaper, a spent casing you dry fire with, a snap cap, or a new firing pin?:rolleyes:

[Edward429451]

No HK man here but one observation...

The 'grey thingy' (FP Lock/Drop safety) is bound to be beat up from so many dry fires without snap caps, it should be replaced at the same time as the firing pin.

My Series 80 GM has this safety for the FP also, and it does get beat up from dryfiring. I've replaced mine 3 or 4 times in 18 years.

I'm sorry, but horror stories like this one make me so glad for my 1911 pistols, where a broken firing pin is but another easily available part from my parts box, or my favorite local gunshop, and four or so minutes of down time once the part is at hand.

Amen Bro':D

[Drjones]

Bergeron, a question:

Why DO you dry-fire so much?

:confused:

[Drjones]

2x...:cuss:

[Longbow]

That very same thing happened to my friend's USP40. H&K will take care of it for ya! Ask them to send you one extra, just in case it happens again (I wish not, but..). I'm surprised no manufacturer makes an after market one yet, its a known occurence for USP's.:scrutiny: . Anyways good luck!

[Drizzt]

WOW! Broke a USP? I didn't think it could be done! Heck, the reason I carry a USP, is so that, if I run out of ammo, I could still beat someone senseless with it and not even ruin the finish ;)

[Bergeron]

Well, I got all of my paperwork together, will be mailing the pistol off tomorow, I hope everything turns out well.

I dry-fire for a coupla reasons, but first off, I would like to make a statement. I never thought that dry-fire would in the least way be detrimental to my pistol. I can't afford to shoot as much as I would like, but I can afford to dry-fire as much as I would like. Dry-firing has allowed me to develop and maintain my pistol skill, especially my grasp and trigger pull. Dry-fire has also allowed me to ensure that I have no flinch and has made me pretty familiar with my pistol. Also, there are no shooting ranges for 3 AM shooting urges. I had thought that a 1/10 live-fire/dry-fire ratio would be appropriate and would not damage my pistol. Appartently, I was incorrect. The part may be defective, or maybe the gun is designed that way. I don't know, but I intend to find out.

Hopefully, the quality of HK customer service will be equal to what I felt was the quality of their products. Either way, I'm not unhappy at the HK, just a little shocked. I've never broken a gun before.

My next 40,000 dry-fires will be preformed with the A-Zoom snap caps, and if everything holds up, I will be happy.

[10-Ring]

I've had great luck w/ HK's customer service, but there are horror stories about them as well. I'd like to think they make such a good product, having one break is just so foreign to them :neener: Plus, with new owners taking over the reigns, there are alot of changes in the horizon.
Hope I didn't scare you, hope you get your USP back soon.


PS...snap caps wear out too, buy a few ;)

[Gilmore]

LOL! Thanks for the gift New_comer, now i know why they don`t want us tinkering around with them. I always wondered what the big secret was with the lack of info on the USP. That buzz phrase "over engineering" has come to light.

Bergeron, 40,000 dry fires is honestly reasuring to me. So break... eerr get out the back up :p and continue practice while you wait!

~Gilmore

[Boats]

Well part of the problem is that his only service pistol is down and out waiting on a part.:(

[Handy]

Boats,

Well then your complaint is about all modern guns that don't have parts at the corner store. The 1911 has an absurd number of aftermarket parts available for it and is completely unique in this regard.

I would imagine if the owner wanted a new firing pin pronto, he could get one inside a week from SPC or even a local dealer who would pull one of his stock guns out of service for a price. But all warranty claims take a little time, even from most 1911 companies.

It's pretty obvious to anyone who cruises these boards that USPs don't like alot of dry fire. 40,000 is alot. If the owner was really concerned about preserving his one defense arm he wouldn't have dry fired it that much. Exactly the same is true of a 1911 owner (would a 1911 firing pin have taken so much abuse?).

It is nice that there are so many parts for the old 1911, but that is hardly an indictment of ALL other auto brands.

[Boats]

Actually, parts availability is a vindication of the 1911s popularity and a condemnation of all the others.

I do not have a problem with most other pistols, or with HK, though I have never wanted to own an HK, but no matter what I owned, I wouldn't put all of my self defense pistol capability into just one example of centerfire handgun and then dryfire it 40,000 times either.

[HS/LD]

I have asked the Moderators and the Administrator to LOCK and DELETE this thread.

There is NO possible WAY that any part of an H&K USP will BREAK EVER.

This thread is all lies and an attempt by Glock and 1911 owners to discredit the ABSOLUTE BEST HANDGUN EVER!!!

I will not stand for it.

DELETE this thread immediately.



Regards,
HS/LD
:D

[HS/LD]

I said IMMEDIATELY!

HS/LD

:D

[New_comer]

Actually, parts availability is a vindication of the 1911s popularity and a condemnation of all the others. Isn't that supposed to be the other way around? :D:D:D

[Boats]

quote:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Actually, parts availability is a vindication of the 1911s popularity and a condemnation of all the others.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Isn't that supposed to be the other way around?

Only if one begins from the presumption that the parts availablity for the 1911 has its genesis in parts failure on the 1911 and not simply because of sheer American popularity of the weapon. My parts box is full of stock parts I have pulled off of 1911s in favor of customization or tinkering, not parts failure. I have all manner of still useable pins, barrel bushings, extractors, regular and extended ejectors, regular and extended slide stops, regular and extended right only and ambi thumb safeties, three and four leaf sear springs, guide rods both short and full length, all manner of mag catches--extended , ambi, and regular, and finally, seven, eight, and ten round mag bodies with all styles of followers. Many of the other things I have in the box are things such as firing pin, recoil, magazine and mag catch springs, which are wear items and I buy almost in bulk numbers just because I can.:cool: ;) :) :neener:

[greg c]

This is my experience:
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=9312

What I've learned:
Everything breaks. (you knew that)
HK customer service is not as bad as people say. Like most interactions in life, you don't get what you deserve, you get what you negotiate.
BTW, my serial number starts with KH as well. Hmmmmmmm. :uhoh:

Edited to add: Here's another report.
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=118890

[Bergeron]

That's interesting. I had heard (but not confirmed) that there was a run of "bad" firing pins. Perhaps KH (1997) guns received these bad pins.

[Nathaniel Firethorn]

FWIW, the range where I usually shoot had a rental USP that was also down with a broken firing pin. I doubt if it was dry-fired a lot.

- pdmoderator